Check out the new Maratac Nichia AAA Copper!

[gunga]

Here here. I agree. I guess the 4-5 year old preon revo on my keychain is here to stay.

 

[this_is_nascar]

Case in point.............

 

[jorn]

So mutch testing, and still no one have tested it with a 10440 :devil:

 

[sbslider]

Tested Medium, the worm is regulated and lasts past the 4 hour mark when I ended the test because the ReyLight turned off by then.

This is data for the worm discussed above in this thread. Y axis is lumens, X axis is hours. To get the performance above, you turn the light on. If you want less light, turn it off and back on. If for some crazy reason you want more light, close to a binding 100 lumens, turn it off and back on again. You get this crazy output for 40-50 minutes, at levels the human eye can not detect a change of intensity, assuming you used a freshly charged eneloop cell. If you don't want this crazy amount of light, just turn it on once with an alkaline or eneloop, and see the chart above.

I, for one, would rather have less maximum output of regulated light, than a light that bright and not fully regulated. It appears those days are over though, as the makers think that brighter is always better.

Does this light not meet that description? I am confused . . .:shrug:

Hoping the Maratac being discussed (with some distractions, mostly by me . .) has a similar performance.

 

[jon_slider]

There really needs to be a control added to the test

I thought the Worm was my control?
I hope you, or someone, do some tests you consider valid.
I only use Eneloops, I thank you for making me aware that they are excellent at regulating lights that are not regulated on Alkaline, because the high mode exceeds the ability of the alkaline battery chemistry.

it seems to me 80 lumens of Nichia, is above the range that an alkaline can regulate, but apparently an Eneloop and a primary lithium can. there are lots of tests of other lights, selbuilt for example, that shows regulated and unregulated options.

bottom line is the new Maratac driver is more efficient on Eneloops than the previous run of drivers in the Copper and Titanium Tools.

Hoping the Maratac being discussed … has a similar performance.

I look forward to your test results pitting the Maratac w Nichia, head to head w the Worm w Nichia.

in my tests the Maratac is superior in brightness, and equal in regulation and runtime, but I need others to independently confirm my observations, using whatever methodology seems most scientific to you.

and please graph the results, I get dizzy reading stacks of numbers interspersed with bla bla bla (something Im well versed in myself)

Pics! or it didnt happen.. LOL

 

[night.hoodie]

What I've quickly learned is today's 1xAAA lights (Lumintop and ThruNite for sure) have thrown any chance of flat regulation across all modes out the door, because of introducing this record setting high-output found in these new LEDS

Not new, but try Fenix E05ss, still regulated in all modes.

So mutch testing, and still no one have tested it with a 10440 :devil:

It's already been determined that Maratac Rev.4 driver accepts AAA voltages only. Nothing is new about this one other than the emitter. IIRC, only Rev.2 & Rev.3 could handle the highr voltages of 10440.

bottom line is the new Maratac driver is more efficient on Eneloops than the previous run of drivers in the Copper and Titanium Tools.

Those drivers have identical lumen output in the modes you tested?

 

[this_is_nascar]

I'm going to disengage from this thread, as I don't want to take it off track anymore than I already have. Sorry about that. Yes, I guess you're right. If you want the regulation, don't use high. It so happens, the T01 (that I measured) is a single level light. Again, not part of this thread or discussion, so I'll take a seat.

 

[jon_slider]

It's already been determined that Maratac Rev.4 driver accepts AAA voltages only.

I missed that, got link?

Those drivers have identical lumen output in the modes you tested?

why do you ask, is the info not on the charts I posted?

 

[night.hoodie]

I missed that, got link?

well, here's some deja vu

The original PWM-laden Maratac Rev. 3 circuit (PWM on M and L only) could technically handle 10440 voltage, but not for long with the stock aluminum heat-sink. Copper-bonded LED provides much better performance, endurance for these, throwing away destructive heat.

The newest batch of Current Controlled (CC) Rev.3 (some CPF-members title it "Rev. 3.5") circuits (no PWM on any mode) are predicted to instantly on 10440, according to the manufacturer, Lumintop, which uses a near identical driver in the new Tools. This is not due to heat but the voltage limits of the new driver.

I have not seen any reports of anyone, successfully or otherwise, using 10440 in CC Rev. 3.5 Maratac lights, which voids the warranty.

Well, that's due dilligence.

So if you are braver than we are, and throw circuit voltage limits and caution to the wind, please let us know what happened to yours.


edit: looks like somone has tried 10440 in a new Tool:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-REVIEW-Lumintop-TOOL-AAA-(XP-G2-1xAAA-10440)

so there is a slim chance of the hard voltage limit of the new CC Lumintop driver (also used in Maratacs) being exaggerated... need more data.
edit2: My guess is that Tool was from the last batch, with PWM, not the new CC driver.

I got one of those too, it is pictured above, including the lack of ring around the LED.

Maratac Rev3 had a second production run, I bought one in October, pictured above with the ring around the LED and it is the first Maratac Ive owned with No PWM. We have started calling it Revision3.5, but that is not CountyComms designation, they still list it as a Rev3. I bought Rev3 Maratacs in April and in June also, they both had PWM and no ring around the LED.

Honestly, I dont think it is any better to run a 10440 on a stock Maratac with or without PWM. Its just wrong to use a battery that exceeds the voltage rating of the driver. I do not recommend 10440 in lights that were not designed for it, though many here report enjoying living more dangerously..

I hope the OP does not fry his light dead, but I dont think he will. Im pretty sure regardless of Rev3 or Rev3.5, that once he starts using LiIon, the light will no longer work on AAA batteries, Ive read that report often. Not that it matters to people who want to use 10440.

As to the question of brightness modes on LiIon, figure about 4 times the levels of AAA.. Stock Maratac Rev3+ modes are 40-1.5-138, so on LiIon I might expect 160-6-552(for a few seconds)…


,
The key is to look for the ring around the LED. FstopLights was selling the earlier PWM based Tools with no ring.

I look forward to the OP sharing whether his Maratac has the ring around the LED, and how his LiIon experience works out.

why do you ask, is the info not on the charts I posted?

No, I am sorry, jon it is not at all clear.
What is the max output of the Maratac Rev. 4 AAA Nichia, please? advertised and tested?
What is the max output of the Nichia Tool? both advertised and tested, plz

jon_slider, your enthusiasm is awesome. As are your efforts and time spent in posting your results. But you are, IMO, based on the tests you provide, too quick to rush to announcing something that is not at all clear. BTW, the copper Worm testing is not any kind of control group. All your tests are anecdotal at best. There are still too many variables that can undermine your rushed conclusions. With respect!

 

[jon_slider]

> predicted to instantly on 10440

there are a number of people that have used 10440 in the NoPWM Maratacs and Tools, but I don't have the energy to rehash that info right now

I agree the manufacturer does not rate the driver for LiIon, but people do it anyway

> What is the max output of the Maratac Rev. 4 AAA Nichia, please? advertised and tested?
What is the max output of the Nichia Tool? both advertised and tested, plz

that info is on the charts I posted, and on the maratac site
I am running out of energy to rehash the info already posted.

I respect your comment that I am rushing my conclusions. I hope you do your own tests and share your own conclusions.

 

[wolfgaze]

Heading to the post office in a couple hours to pick up my AAA Cu... It'll be my first copper light, so kind of excited to get my hands on it...

 

[night.hoodie]

Video says dont use a 10440, you will blow the driver. If it uses the same driver as the lumintop worm rev 4, then a 10440 will blow the driver. Done that.. My worm only works with a 10440 now, and it's only one mode now.

Here's more indication from early in the thread that 10440 with the newer Maratac constant current drivers are ill advised. If it wasn't clear from the quotes from older threads, the Rev.3.5 driver is effectively the same as the Rev.4 driver, with a different mode sequence. Lumintop's newer constant current drivers are most likely not 10440 friendly. The older, PWM Lumintop drivers seemed to accept 10440 voltages. This is including the constant current 2-mode Rev. 2 Maratac red "worm" driver, and the 3 mode Maratac Rev. 3 driver with PWM, both manufactured by Lumintop, and both beloved because of their ability to handle the higher voltage chems. This is including the Tool which was sometimes reported to be 10440 only, once using 10440, it reportedly can lose its ability to function on AAA voltages. This is all old news. With the introduction of the newer constant current AAA lights that have that neato ring around the LED at the reflector, reports have been that they are not 10440 friendly.

jon_slider I have reread all your posted data in this thread. I can't tell what the brightness of the top modes is supposed to be. I checked the Lumintop and Maratac sites, and I don't trust the given specs (especially CountyComm's). It does not seem clear that the top modes of the Tool and Maratac are identical, but maybe so... I can't tell. Maybe I am a little thick.

We've been here for a couple or few years and seen a few new drivers replacing older ones. What I have learned is that it is possible for two different lights with different mode sequences and different mode settings to have identical drivers. If drivers are identical, their efficiency is identical. The difference between the new Cu Maratac and Cu Tool may not be the driver... it could be identical, thus identical efficiency, and your tests do not show otherwise, even if you get more runtime out of one than the other. Perhaps there is a difference in the emitter beyond them both being Nichia 219b. Are all 219b identical with identical efficiency? I don't think we can take that for granted. Unless your eneloops have had identical histories, this could be another variable. The clicky switch in the Tool, for instance, adds resistance. This may be all that is necessary to explain your results. I apologize for being the one to suggest that your conclusions do not necessarily follow from the data you provide, and must admit it is only my opinion. Maybe one is more efficient than the other, maybe the efficiency is identical, I'm not certain, and all that is clear to me is that I can't tell for sure, and the conclusion regarding efficiency explaining the differences in runtime was a bit hasty. Maybe you are right, but I can't tell from that evidence. The data is interesting, though, and I am grateful to you, as I am sure many who have interest are. Take a break when you get tired, but keep up the good work, please.

 

[sbslider]

Brightness advertised by Countycomm is 138 lumens. jon_sliders data is posted in lumens best I can tell. The Maratac rev 4 in high mode starts at 90 or so and holds pretty well to that level for 40ish minutes.

Good point about the resistance of the switch, although if that is part of the reason the tool seems to be worse that is a terrible switch. The switch is a constant resistance. The voltage dropping with a fixed input level (think Nimh, which is all jon_slider uses) could imply increasing current, which would imply some sort of regulation. Of course it could also imply decreasing battery voltage.

I can't test a Tool. On second though, I could, as I gave one to my son as a gift. Perhaps I will once I get a test setup that is easy to use, stable, and accurate. No lumen data here, just voltage and current, plotted in the future if it is not too much work.

 

[sbslider]

I'm going to disengage from this thread, as I don't want to take it off track anymore than I already have. Sorry about that. Yes, I guess you're right. If you want the regulation, don't use high. It so happens, the T01 (that I measured) is a single level light. Again, not part of this thread or discussion, so I'll take a seat.

Sorry if I came across in a bad way, it was not intended. I was just not sure if I was missing something.

 

[this_is_nascar]

Sorry if I came across in a bad way, it was not intended. I was just not sure if I was missing something.

No. It's all good. This really wasn't the thread for me to start adding additional products.

 

[jon_slider]

There is no evidence, that what happened to jorn's aluminum worm, will happen to the Copper Maratac Rev4 AAA, but it is certainly possible.

So far NOBODY has reported the results of using 10440 in a Rev4 AAA Maratac w Nichia.. be the first in your neighborhood!

the following quote is evidence of 10440 use in NoPWM Rev3.5 AAA CuMaratac, and the NoPWM Tools from that period.. notice the date as reference: (and the link to the original thread for more detail)
#203 02-27-2016, 06:12 PM

... The Maratac, Lumintop Tool (Copper, Alum, Ti, Rey Light Tool (Copper and Ti) and Worm (Copper, Stainless and Alum) in their present versions all use the same NoPwm driver afaik.

I own all of these models (including all PWM and noPWM Maratacs) and they work perfectly with 10440 in my experience, YMMV .

this does not mean I am recommending 10440 in lights that lack thermal and low voltage protection, and whose drivers are not rated for LiIon. I personally do not use 10440. It is just a commonly asked question. There are all sorts of reasons why I dont use 10440, but other people have different needs, risk tolerance, and priorities.

 

[wolfgaze]

My Maratac and Lumintop collection of Nichia AAA lights:

(From Left to Right: 1. Maratac Alum Rev 3 body w/ Lumintop SS Worm head, 2. Lumintop Ti Tool, 3. Lumintop Ti Tool, 4. Maratac Cu Rev 4)

 

[Nichia!]

Beautiful lights! Congrats

 

[wolfgaze]

Does anyone know where we can source the stainless steel pocket clips used on the Maratac and Lumintop AAA lights? I know CountyComm sells the black finish clips but didn't see the SS ones available...

Beautiful lights! Congrats

Thank you, and thanks again for starting this thread...

 

[sbslider]

thanks for the pics! Mine comes tomorrow, but I won't be there to get it, so this will have to hold me over until then.