Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underrated

[Phaserburn]

I think CCFTs and CFLs are underrated here on CPF. I would love to find out actual lumens ratings from some of the more commonly available fluoros. The Trailblazer/Doublebright, the Coleman, the Osram/RS Dulux Mini, Energizer Folding Fluoro Lantern, etc. I think many people overlook these lights because they can easily look at the tubes and not be blinded, like staring at a lux3 in a reflector. Maybe they figure the light isn't bright enough without a hotspot? Anyone have any info? Manufacturer ratings, when available, aren't reliable.

For example, the Energizer Trailblazer must kick out a pretty high number of lumens. Perhaps if this was known, a better comparison could be made. I didn't see any of these lights rated on Quickbeam's site.

 

[jtice]

I agree that these can be very useful, I have thought about picking one up before as a room light in a blackout, or for a table at camp sites.

They are effeciant also, Sway had one that ran off 8 D cells for over 8 hours.

And you are right, there is alot more light comming from them than ppl really think, as you said, you can ussually bare to look right at the tubes.

I have a camping/caving trip comming up in a few months, I wouldnt mind picking up one for that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wonder what the best ones are.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

I love the soft flood of fluorescent, especially cold compact based lighting. The tubes are robust and don't flake out or brown out on the ends at low voltages, claiming life of 10,000 hours which is a very long time. I often wonder why they don't make various lights with bended cold cathode tubes because you should be able to bend it into a lot smaller shapes. I could see a 123a lithium based cold cathode microlantern if you bent the tube into a twister style light perhaps.
My guess is a CCFL lantern takes about half the current as a krypton is perhaps twice as bright and should last about as long as standard 4watt tubes as far as battery life is concerned. I think the color is a little better and brighter than 4 watt tubes over the life of batteries also.

If someone could only make a decent LED/CCFL light at a decent price, eveready has the best price but lousy taste in LED design on their doublebright/trailfinder series, you are better off getting the incan version (arcwhite) and modding it for LED use.

I am currently brainstorming a two tube CCFL mini lantern with LEDs hopefully able to use various battery sources such as 4-5AA,4-5C, 4-5SubC. It will probably take me a few months to figure out how to stuff everything into it like my other kids lantern mod.. that one ended up a mess to get everything into it but everything works. I figure 5 cells should give longer runtime and using nimh will only overdrive the tubes a little which I have done with no harmful results I can tell of.

Another thing about CCFL... it takes about a minute or two to warm them up... they get brighter for the first few minutes... considerably brighter so people that don't wait this time do not see the full brightness of them in use by just quickly testing them and the difference is noticable for sure.

 

[java_man]

I agree, compact fluorescents (CF) and cold cathode fluorescents (CCFL) are tops for area and flood light applications, very efficient and long lived. I use a 27 W CF that runs on 12vdc for outdoor-night projects and in a cheap shop light reflector it shines like a 175 w flood....it can illuminate a 400 sq ft area bright enough to do most work.

The CCFL are even more efficient and hopefully, someone starts making them into mini spirals that can fit neatly into a reflector.

before I bought that DC compact fluorescent bulb, I shopped around and found very few large size battery fluorescent lamps for sale in the US...there were quite a few more in the UK

 

[3rd_shift]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

Check the reviews section for idleprocess.
He did a review of a 4 AA ccfl that may still be on sale at BigLots for under $5.
I have one of those.
That thing runs and runs brighter than my W bin Luxeon5 magmod does. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

You are probably talking about the coleman micro lantern CCFL for $3.99 at BigLots. I got one of them torn apart completely and shocked myself trying it out in a lantern mod I am brainstorming.

 

[scudinc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

LEDs are not meant for flood. Flood is CCFL territory.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

LEDs are lesss suited for flood, but do have one redeeming feature in the lantern/flood department.... cold temperature use. Fluorescent tubes tend to dim and struggle under colder temperatures while LEDs just say.. thanks for extra heatsinking/cooling. The main problem with LEDs in flood applications is very few wide angle LEDs are put to use for it, and it requires diffusers, reflectors and other methods to change a narrow angular beam into a dispersed flood. One common method is using a wall or ceiling for bouncing a beam off of it. Until LEDs reach or succeed the efficiency of flourescent tubes their use in flood applications is less desirable and less efficient. One other reason I put LEDs beside my ccfl in my lantern is very low operating currents in which most common fluorescent lights. I have the 4 LEDs overdriven at 40ma/each which is about 1/2 the current the CCFL uses. I intended it for both lower power lighting and when the fluorescent starts dimming out hopefully the LEDs with still be able to supply light for a few hours to come.

 

[cheesehead]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

Aren't all LED's flood? I mean without a TIROS, they all seem to be floods. Even the TIROS is kind of a flood. Sure they aren't CCFL, but they aren't incandescents either.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

most LEDs have a lens that projects a beam, and there is something like a tiny reflector inside them akin to a flashlight I believe. LEDs are rated at different light angles with the majority of the white ones at 30 degrees or less. They make some I believe that are 150 degrees but compare that to a flourescent which approaches 360 degrees on almost every axis.

 

[enLIGHTenment]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

Small LEDs (which do make up the majority of the market) are directed but high power LEDs (Luxeons, Xlamps, etc) have full angles on the order of 100 degrees. That's flood for all intents and purposes.

Of course, at ~100 lumens each, enough Luxeons to match the output of a CFL or CCFL tube aren't going to be too gentle on a battery pack.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

I guess you could subdivide flood into two categories... directional flood and 360 degree flood. Without help LEDs cannot do 360 degree flood well while flourescent lights just need a host that allows the tube to shine unblocked to accomplish that. Perhaps in time we will see lantern/flashlights with CCFL and luxeons in them.

 

[java_man]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, at ~100 lumens each, enough Luxeons to match the output of a CFL or CCFL tube aren't going to be too gentle on a battery pack.

[/ QUOTE ]

and this is why CFL and CCFL can't be beat for area lighting...and the luxeons are even less effecient than the common LED's

 

[Phaserburn]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

So, does anyone know how many lumens one of these lights actually puts out, for real?

 

[java_man]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

FLs produce about 30 - 60 lumens per watt... Halogen lights typically produce 15-18 lumens per watt, and the most efficient white LEDs on the market produce 23 lumens per watt.

 

[Phaserburn]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

Whoa! Thanks, java. So -
Osram Dulux Mini would be 2.4V x .8A = 1.92W or 115 lumens, right?
A Energizer Trailblazer would be 4.8 x .6A = 2.88W or 172 lumens. A Coleman CCFT lantern would be about the same.
How would one calculate the Energizer Folding Lantern with 2 tubes?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

for the size and cost you cannot beat a CCFL light. I am guessing it will outdo a 5 watt LED in area lighting by a noticable amount and cost is averaging around 12-15 dollars for the lights with them in them. The best of both worlds would be a 3 watt LED for throw efficiency and a CCFL tube for overal floodlighting.

 

[java_man]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

[ QUOTE ]
How would one calculate the Energizer Folding Lantern with 2 tubes?

[/ QUOTE ]

It uses 2 F4T5 bulbs so 220 lumens on high


[ QUOTE ]
... I am guessing it will outdo a 5 watt LED in area lighting by a noticable amount ...

[/ QUOTE ]


By a big margin... 210 Lumens vs 105 for a 5 W luxeon .. and the luxeon will lighten the wallet by $45 just for the emitter

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

[ QUOTE ]
Phaserburn said:
Whoa! Thanks, java. So -
Osram Dulux Mini would be 2.4V x .8A = 1.92W or 115 lumens, right?
A Energizer Trailblazer would be 4.8 x .6A = 2.88W or 172 lumens. A Coleman CCFT lantern would be about the same.
How would one calculate the Energizer Folding Lantern with 2 tubes?

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest problem with calculating based on watts alone is a 4watt tube is only using about 2watts of power. CCFL tubes like the arcwhite,doublebright,trailfinder use about .3A at 6vdc or again about 2watts. I am guessing the tubes in the eveready lights and the coleman are about 4-5watts equivalent comparably but I am really not sure. A 6 watt tube takes about 3 actual watts of electricity.

 

[VidPro]

Re: Compact Fluoros and Cold Cathode lights underr

dont forget the electronics, BULB specs are not the wattage USE on a florescent total fixture.
( i am not discounting thier effectiveness )

so if your sticking resisters or 80% efficiency things in for leds then it might be similar.

anything that requires more STUFF to run it, has some efficiency loss over its actual rated bulb wattage, cept when you Direct Drive the things that are the same voltages as your sources.

so if that 7W light uses 9W to its ballast stuff, then it goes down in lumen to watt ratings.
if the 1W luxeon is being run with stuff that tosses .2A of juice into heat, then add that in.

without Fixtures, and power sources the bulbs dont mean nothing, so actual power consumption vs actual power output should at least be remembered.

this radio shack thing, that looks like about a 3W tube runs (including electronics) at 1.82W, somehow i dount it is putting out that kinda lumens either.
the end is dark already.