CPFReviews.com: Nyogel 779ZC, Nyogel 759G, Nyogel 760G Lubricants

[Flashlight Aficionado]

I don't have any Nyogel or I'd do it myself.

To stop this argument over time in air versus aluminum particles, can somebody place a small dot of Nyogel on the surface of glass and aluminum. Also put fresh Nyogel on one of your spare flashlights. Everyday for a week, look at the two test subjects and twist the threads on the spare light. Then post here any changes and if there is a difference between the three test subjects.

 

[Thujone]

FWIW I have cleaned threads applied nyolube, worked it in a bit then wiped it off and it is already darkened. I have read that there are remarks about this on the nyogel website where they say discoloration is normal. Not sure what to make of it but it has always bugged me.

 

[BabyDoc]

FWIW I have cleaned threads applied nyolube, worked it in a bit then wiped it off and it is already darkened. I have read that there are remarks about this on the nyogel website where they say discoloration is normal. Not sure what to make of it but it has always bugged me.

+1. If it was the action of Silica on aluminum causing the black discoloration, why would you use this stuff? It is supposed to be a lubricant, not a polish.

 

[ViReN]

The Nyogel will turn black within 24 hours of being applied. I believe in another thread the manufacturer stated this was NOT aluminum micro-particles within the threads, but oxidation of one of the components in the Nyogel. If it were aluminum, it doesn't say much for the Nyogel, does it?

I just experimented with two scenarios

1) If I clean threads on battery tube squeaky clean and cleean tail cap threads but not that well, the blacking occurs after first few (2-3) cycles. I believe residue on tail cap threads is the cause.

2) If I clean threads thoroughly ...both sides... The tail cap and the battery tube... there is no blacking so far (after 5 cycles). Will report additional observations tomorrow.



I think, we should write to Nyogel explaining our concerns. may be they have an explanation.

My wild guess (un educated) is there are two posibilities. the hydrocarbon decomposes to form H2 and Carbon (black color) due to the metal-metal action... this also could be the reason for dry out's as some have experienced.

Another possibility is combined aciton of silica (sand) + hydrocarbon and bare aluminium (acting as a catalyst)...

 

[ViReN]

Thank you Viren for a very informative review. This is a superb article.

Thanks for kind words LED-holic :thumbsup:

 

[ViReN]

I don't have any Nyogel or I'd do it myself.

To stop this argument over time in air versus aluminum particles, can somebody place a small dot of Nyogel on the surface of glass and aluminum. Also put fresh Nyogel on one of your spare flashlights. Everyday for a week, look at the two test subjects and twist the threads on the spare light. Then post here any changes and if there is a difference between the three test subjects.

I already begun similar but very small 2 day test ....let's see the results.

 

[ViReN]

(sorry for poor quality pic... just captured using cell phone)... will post a better pic tomorow... it's 1 AM here at this moment...

This is how the Jet-1 Pro Tail cap still looks. after 7-8 cycles (open and close) and about 10 days. I didn't notice any blackening so far.

 

[zipplet]

For what it is worth, I have noticed almost no blackening on the threads on my Raw NS + Wee NS lights. They came lubed with nyogel. The lights have seen a lot of use in the past few days.

I believe like some others that it is caused by fine metal particles over time.

 

[AvidHiker]

+1. If it was the action of Silica on aluminum causing the black discoloration, why would you use this stuff? It is supposed to be a lubricant, not a polish.

But why wouldn't you, unless you knew for a fact that it was unusually damaging? This is circumstantial, we have no quantitative data to suggest that the rate of wear is being significantly accelerated.

The fact remains that I have observed this blackening when using other lubricants as well, which contain no silica (or hard phase of any kind). I think there is no way around erosion/abrasion when you have metal-to-metal, moving contact. We're not talking bearings here, this is just a threaded component which, imo, doesn't see nearly enough cycling during its lifetime to be concerned with the degree of wear.

I will do an experiment as well. I will lube clean threads with Nyogel and a thick silicone I have here in my lab which does not contain silica, and report back on the results.

Is someone planning to write Nye, now I really want to know the cause!

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Does anyone think that the blackening could be caused by the electrical contact between the threads? Seems reasonable to me. There is sort of an imperfect electrical contact between the joints of the threaded pieces, not like an electrical flow through a solid piece of metal. I realize that some flashlight only make contact from, for example, the tailcap lip and lip of the body, and the spring and battery, such as Surefire lights, and this is true unless one is using a body extender such as the A19 or A14, which has bare al treads, and these bare al threads make contact with the bare al threads of the main body, electrical contact being made via the threads. Are people seeing this blackening on threads that are anodized?

Bill

 

[BabyDoc]

Does anyone think that the blackening could be caused by the electrical contact between the threads? Seems reasonable to me. There is sort of an imperfect electrical contact between the joints of the threaded pieces, not like an electrical flow through a solid piece of metal. I realize that some flashlight only make contact from, for example, the tailcap lip and lip of the body, and the spring and battery, such as Surefire lights, and this is true unless one is using a body extender such as the A19 or A14, which has bare al treads, and these bare al threads make contact with the bare al threads of the main body, electrical contact being made via the threads. Are people seeing this blackening on threads that are anodized?

Bill

I have no idea, but that might be a theory worth exploring, particularly since there are differing experiences of blackening with Nyogel being reported here. In my case, the NDI threads are conductive, and they do blacken.

 

[ViReN]

Still no concensus on this whole blackening thing, huh?

I still strongly feel that the blackening comes from metal being abraded from the threads. I have both Nyogel products that Lighthound currently sells and both will turn black, but only after extended use. I've never seen any comments from the manufacturer, but if they exist I'd love to see them (oxidation of the lube seems, to me, to be a very unlikely explanation). Anyway, in my experience, if the Nyogel is on a tailcap that doesn't get removed very often, it takes quite a while to turn black. Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that very small amounts of aluminum are, in fact, contaminating the lube. Also, these lubricants (silicone-based) are typically thickened with amorphous (fumed, spherical morphology) silica (I cannot confirm this for Nyogel as their formulation is proprietary, but I'm certain that this is common practice) which may make the effect more apparent. My theory (to be proven once I get access to an SEM with EDS) is that the silica particles in the Nyogel (assuming they're in there), by virtue of their hardness and potential to come in direct contact with bare aluminum under significant compressive loads, may acquire an extremely thin coating of aluminum under shear forces generated when the threads are operating, thereby magnifying the color change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

Anyway, I think nanoscale abrasion is perfectly normal for lubricated threads (using any lube) - there's no such thing as a perfect lubricant - and it doesn't reflect poorly on the quality of the lube. The amount of material being removed from the threads is insignificant and will never be noticable to the user (the threads will always work just fine). I use pure Krytox grease (very expensive as formulated for laboratory glassware - extremely resistant to oxidation, heat, etc) on my Ti McGizmo and the threads still turn black after a week of frequent use.

btw - For titanium in general, my understanding is that PTFE-based products are far superior to anything else. This has been stated in many a lube thread.

AvidHiker, Thanks for posting useful information

Yes, I can say with a good certainty that the Nyogel will not get blackened without any usage. I did 15 open close cycles to Jet I Pro tailcap. Here are the results. It's Nyogel 779G

There is slight color change as compared to begining, but this for sure is due to usage (wear). All the 15 open close cycles were performed with battery installed but without light being switched on.

 

[ViReN]

Does anyone think that the blackening could be caused by the electrical contact between the threads? Seems reasonable to me. There is sort of an imperfect electrical contact between the joints of the threaded pieces, not like an electrical flow through a solid piece of metal. I realize that some flashlight only make contact from, for example, the tailcap lip and lip of the body, and the spring and battery, such as Surefire lights, and this is true unless one is using a body extender such as the A19 or A14, which has bare al treads, and these bare al threads make contact with the bare al threads of the main body, electrical contact being made via the threads. Are people seeing this blackening on threads that are anodized?

Bill

Bill,

It is true the contact may not be in optimal conditions... but Forming of black carbon for a hydrocarbon grease due decomposition from electrical micro sparks will occur in voltages and currents in excess of what our flashlights see. Its usually above 12V and a couple of Amps.

I have observed that only Bare Aluminum threads see this blackening. Softer the material, more pronounced is the effect due to natural wear.

I feel that the blackening should be a very good indicator to clean threads and relube.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I observe this blackened condition on natural Al threads that do not see any wear due to twisting, or repeated removal of parts.

Bill

 

[ViReN]

I observe this blackened condition on natural Al threads that do not see any wear due to twisting, or repeated removal of parts.

Bill

Here is one experiment you can try. Use a rugged light (that has less moving parts) ex. Peak McKinley etc. Remove the O-Rings To clean threads use iso-propylene alcohol... clean thoroughly most importantly battery tube threads. Re-Lube and check after a few days. Compare this with normal cleaning threads.

If it still turns black, try different tube.

For both Nyogel variants, if I clean threads well, the auto black effect does not occur.

 

[BabyDoc]

You couldn't clean the thread on my NDI any better:
1. Q-tip soaked in 91 percent Isopropyl Alcohol - all threads scrubbed.
2. Q-tip soaked in Energine Spot Remover - all threads scrubbed
3. Round Tooth picks soaked in Alcohol run between the threads until no black on toothpick tips.
4. Tooth picks soaked in Energine Spot Remover run between the threads until no black on toothpics. (Energine removes organic compounds that the Alcohol might miss)

I then apply Nyogel 760. Within 24 hours of very little usage, there is black material between the threads. There is no sign, however, of any problem otherwise: The head turns great, smooth as butter.

I have recently tried the Radio Shack Oiler P.F.T.E. with similar smoothness but no black material even after a week. Perhaps this an unfair comparison since the Radio Shack oil is extremely thin, but if I hadn't clean my light well enough, I would have imagine that the black would have appeared here too.