E2 saves the day - unfortunatly.

kubolaw

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Please listen to Blikbok - the TID is a BAAAAD idea. You are entitled to defend yourself, but if you whip out a TID-enhanced light and start doing damage in the situation you described above, and you have brought a heap of trouble upon yourself. This isn't legal advice by any means, but just don't do it. It makes me really nervous that you would even consider the Sypdie in this situation. Of course I don't know all the details, but I HIGHLY recommend you speak with a lawyer (about Grant, the school, and also your options). You will probably find it highly enlightening. Many lawyers will provide you with a free initial consultation if you are worried about costs.

John
 

Wits' End

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Aragorn, Glad you held off as long as you did but we all know how it can be to get your buttons pushed.
If I read your "Jane" reference right, you'll understand the following. At least he didn't end up like Stilson or Bonzo so you showed more restraint than Andrew did. But as other's including Ender have said watch your back and your sides and front. You humiliated and hurt Grant and he and/or others may come after you. But as Blikbok said a TID could have legal repurcussions as well as do more damage than you really want to do and that you don't want to deal with. Maybe pepper spray should join your EDC.
 

Lurker

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I've never heard of a school that has 2nd graders and a 20-year old student in the same school, so you must be in a pretty unusual situation. In any case, your situation with this kid is completely intolerable. I agree with the advice to get the police involved. This is clearly a case of criminal assault and battery. The school has demonstrated an unwillingness and/or inability to control this student's behaviour and protect you from him. Schools in general are poor at dealing with situations like this (bullying). As the victum you are at greater risk of being disciplined for defending yourself than the perpetrator is. That's the number one thing you have to keep in mind as you deal with this. Don't do anything that will get you in trouble (legal or academic). Using your flashlight as a weapon is risking legal trouble. Using a weapon to strike a blow to the head of an unarmed man is also risking trouble. No matter how morally justified you were, your legal footing is precarious there. Blows to the head with a hard object are never a good idea unless your intention is to use deadly force, which would not have been justified in this situation. Don't do that any more.

You should insist that the school authorities do whatever is necessary to keep this kid from bullying you. And don't tolerate even one slight infraction in the future without insisting on enforcement. The first time he throws a pencil, the administration should be involved. Letting it get out of hand is good for no one. You may have to set up a meeting with administration (and maybe parents/guardian) to set up a plan for dealing with this kid. Any failure on the part of the school to fully resolve this situation leaves it in the realm of a police matter. If he touches you or throws anything at you he is technically guilty of assault and battery and there will be witnesses.

If you cannot get satisfaction from either one of those avenues, then you are left with your last resort: solving it yourself. This should only be a last resort. And remember that doing it this way will require you to break the law. Your efforts to get the school to control this kid will result in an understanding of what kinds of violence will be tolerated by the administration from this bully. You must then perform that violence on the bully. This will essentially be done with school permission. Always dish out more than you take. Whatever he does to you, you do twice as much to him. If he insults you, you shove him. If he slaps you, you knee him in the groin. Don't lose your temper again. Act with a cool head. Take opportunities to initiate attacks at your convenience. Strikes to the solar plexus are always good. You must become the bully. It is best to do this at times when witnesses are not present, if possible. Off school grounds would be even better, but you must engage him whenever he engeges you no matter where it is. Being passive or defensive has not worked in the past and will not work in the future with him. Bullys are usually just thinly veiled cowards. Once you have shown that you will not take his crap, he will look for another victum. You have already given him one good dose of this medicine, so it probably won't take much more to back it up now.
 

Empath

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Trevor, to the advise given by James, I might add that there is nothing gained by waiting too long, and accumulating a list of "he's done this and this". Each offense should be dealt with quickly on your part. By offense, I not talking of only the actions of Grant. The school, it's teachers and administrators also hold civil liability as well as being criminally responsible.
 

Blikbok

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Apr 10, 2002
Messages
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Geeze, lurker. Dish out the secrets to being mean a little at a time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Keep it up, and you'll put good hired muscle out of work. Last thing we need is muscle wandering around with nothing to do....
 

James S

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Aragorn, for goodness sake don't carry the TID.

if you have reason to fear for your own safety from him and his buddies at this point then that might be OK, but you need some legal advice before you do it. Really, I'm not kidding this is important.

Once stuff is written down it's real and you'll have a heck of a time getting your story acknowleged if you don't document it with the police RIGHT NOW. This other fellow could be right now making a statement to the police about how you assulted him. You need to go and fill out the paper work now, today.

You will get hosed through this whole process if you do not. You gave him better than a bruise. If he has to go get a stich at the hospital or something there is going to be documentation and it can only go bad for you unless you counter with your own.

Tell your boss at work that you have to go to the police station.

Your flashlight is probably a well known EDC for you. Not something that you brought to class in order to bludgeon the guy with. Perhaps you pulled it out of your pocket because you fell on it when he threw you to the ground and you wanted to make sure that you didn't impale your hip on it or something. But it's important that it's not a weapon. It's just what you were carrying when he attacked you. Don't turn it into a weapon with a TID! That can only go badly.

I'll say it one more time and then be quiet. You need legal representation or you will get royally screwed. As kubolaw said, you can chat with a lawer for free most of the time. Then you need to document what happened with the police. They can tell you if he's filling paperwork against you.

Don't wait, do it now. Please!
 

tkl

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Aug 24, 2002
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[ QUOTE ]
Charles Bradshaw said:

These days, I would look hard at him, and project a black inverted pentagram, with one of the upper points broken, on his forehead.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?
 

Rothrandir

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wow, you guys make it sound like he's going to jail /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
i understand that there are possible legal ramifications...but jeez /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

yes trevor, the teachers and administrators sound like they are doing a crappy job. it is probably best to persue outside help.

i'm assuming you didn't have the spydie because knives aren't allowed in school?
that would have been the first thing i reached for. with a knife in your hand, the attacker would likely feel less motivated to attack.

some of this shift if just messed up though! if someone attacks him, he should have every right to grab a flashlight, fork, or baseball bad lying near. he was defending himself! criminals have too many right...
the head is a perfect place to go for when you have an object in your hand. the reason you were in the fight was to get out of it and you should hit/kick/***** slap him wherever is neccessary to end the situation.

i think you handled the situation admirably! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif you gave him a chance, but when it was time you went to it, he needed that.

btw, how was the first day back at school?
 

flownosaj

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I'm coming in late here so everything I could have thought of has already been said.

TID--very bad idea. A flashlight is a tool, flashlihgt+TID is a weapon plain and simple. On the street is one thing, but in this situation it sound like a bad idea with heavy repercussions. Severe blowback.

James has the right idea. If you can put this kid in (or back in) juvie, you'd be doing a great service to everyone.

I feel that no one has the right to even touch you without permission and this kid got what he had coming to him. If the teacher was not helping, you acted as any one of us would have.
That being said, I have to warn you. I once had a serious fight in school; almost crushed the trachea of one kid and did some long-lasting damage to the eye of his "buddy". Due to the consequences and followup, I would have avoided the situation as best as possible, but that's not always possible.
That's the situation you may soon find yourself in. If this kid is not removed from the school, he will always be a threat, and legal action is the only way to go. If you do not feel safe with him around, the best course is to see a lawyer and at least get a restraining order so if this behavior occurs again their is a legal record of it, all to help you if this does get worse.

(as a side note, the tip of the thumb or nuckles to vital areas appears less henious than a weapon)

-Jason
 

Blikbok

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Apr 10, 2002
Messages
898
Rothrandir:
What he's permitted to do, should have done, and what he can get in trouble for (in school and in court) are completely different things. His natural right to self defense is immutable. But the kids parents can still sue because he hurt their "baby". I wish the world was different. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

Rothrandir

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i realize this.

like you said, i wish the world were different too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

TrevorNasko

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Jul 23, 2001
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Atlanta, GA>> The Flashlight that was broken shall
I wasnt clear on the TID. I ordered it after noting my natural effectiveness with a light, I would never use it against grant.ever. not til it was that or a knife.
It is for my trips late at night in the ally behind the store to check for carts.


Oh and not allowed to have knives? Im the only one allowed to carry anything sharp since Im an eagle scout. nonetheless- they ALL have some sort of knife (cheap and dull of course). Me Im allowed to strap THIS to my side:

http://www.1sks.com/images/coldsteel/cs-13rtk.jpg

I find that just resting your hand on the butt(still holstered of course)and giving an icy stare brings them back to earth REAL fast. I have only needed to do this twice- neither time at school.

I appriciate the suggestion but the "kick his @$$ when noone can see" idea is wronge. I am no bully. Bullies are cowards. Cowards use TIDs when fists will do. The spyderco was allowed for me to carry because I have the control not to use it needlessly.

Kudos wits end I wondered if you would get the reference! My laptop IS called jane - even says so in the opening screen. And no- the password is not ender. LOL That ender series is REALLY deep tho. His insights are unbelievable- Wonder if he still lives in greensburo? thats right up the road.

I digress - Today I got to school and repaired to my old holeinthewall room this is a very small room that is widely known to be MY room. Grant never saw me once. I think he was on edge all day- I over heard him and he said he knew I was there but he hadnt a clue where i was. I was not 5 feet from him at the time! I never saw the marks but heard an afternoon student ask him what happened (these kids are his jeesh so to speak.) and he fed them a load of BS about how he just pulled my leg and the next thing he new I was hitting him with a flashlight like a maniac. Thats me- KILLER AT HEART! GRRRRRRRRRRRR B.A. Aragorn LOL

I dunno - it will blow over- if not I only have 20 mor days til senior grad. I wont rock the boat and rothrandir is right - There is no need for a lawyer. If everyone sued everyone who acted stupidly I would lose more than I won if you catch my drift.
 

Rothrandir

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jeez, schools in my area are about as bad as airports /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif i haven't been caught with a nail cipper yet...no exceptions.

glad your laptop is alright.
 

Blikbok

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Apr 10, 2002
Messages
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Getting a lawyer does not imply lawsuits. A local lawyer can give you advice on the law in your locale. A violent crime was committed against you, and you need advice in how to proceed. A lawyer would have the specific knowledge and certification to help you with good advice.
 

Gransee

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Sounds like you handled this pretty well Aragorn. My compliments. It is sad when violence is the outcome but I understand that other guy was off his meds.

In 5th grade, I was shooting spit wads in class and hit the class "cool guy" in the eye. He got up from his desk and punched me in the eye when the teacher was not looking. I did not hit him back and he returned to his desk. I thought of telling on him but I realized I would have to explain why I was shooting spit wads in the first place. Later events confirmed he was a bit of a bully and eradict in his behavior.

In hindsight, I would have to say that pacifism rarely stops a bully. It, however, does make for less paperwork. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter
 

PieThatCorner

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Feb 22, 2003
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Los Angeles, CA
[ QUOTE ]
Aragorn said:
...

Oh and not allowed to have knives? Im the only one allowed to carry anything sharp since Im an eagle scout. nonetheless- they ALL have some sort of knife (cheap and dull of course). Me Im allowed to strap THIS to my side:

http://www.1sks.com/images/coldsteel/cs-13rtk.jpg

...


[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of school is this again?

Sounds like the kind of place where teachers should be packing a .45 or a 12 gauge shotgun.
 

brightnorm

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Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
7,160
[ QUOTE ]
PieThatCorner said:
[ QUOTE ]
Aragorn said:
...

Oh and not allowed to have knives? Im the only one allowed to carry anything sharp since Im an eagle scout. nonetheless- they ALL have some sort of knife (cheap and dull of course). Me Im allowed to strap THIS to my side:

http://www.1sks.com/images/coldsteel/cs-13rtk.jpg

...


[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of school is this again?

Sounds like the kind of place where teachers should be packing a .45 or a 12 gauge shotgun.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had an acquaintance who had taught in the Cleveland public schools for years. He carried a little .25 caliber as his "EDC" and was fond of saying : "if any one of those ----- -----stards tries anything this'll be waiting for him".

I said he was an acquaintance, not a friend.

Brightnorm
 

chamenos

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i noticed this hasn't been mentioned yet; how did the E2 fare? any dents in the bezel or did the bulb blow? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

James S

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The point of a lawyer or visiting the police doesn't have anything to do with lawsuits or actually filing charges against the guy. It has to do with DOCUMENTATION. Which is like black magic. You write it down 3 times and it's reality. You have to do it before HE does. If he's the only one talking, then people will believe HIM.

Thats all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It can still quietly blow over and everyone put it behind them, just make sure that it doesn't come and get YOU from behind!

I'm glad things are settling down. Congrats on your impending graduation!
 
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