Extreme Cold Effects on Flashlights

[BigWaffles]

Does anybody have info on how extreme cold affects flashlights? I keep a G2 Incan, a Mini-Mag with a Niteize 3LED drop-in, a Mag 3D LED and an Inova 24/7 in my truck year round. I was wondereing what the effects of extreme cold would be on the lamps and batteries. I don't want to unexpectedly blow something by using one when it's too cold.

I live in North Pole, AK and our winters can get down to -50 or so (thankfully not yet this year).

Thanks.


C.P.T.

 

[DaFABRICATA]

I don't know about the other lights, but you may want to upgrade from the G2 to a 6P and upgrade the bulb to an LED drop-in.
I am not sure how the nitrolon plastic of the G2 would do at -50, but the aluminum 6P would have no worries. I suggested the LED drop-in over the bulb due to not easily replacing bulbs when they burn out in -50 weather with thick gloves on. The lithium batteries should be ok in that temp. The extreme cold will help keep the LED drop-in cool. Malkoff makes GREAT drop-ins and are well worth the money IMO.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

I don't think I'd want to use lithiums below -40. I think that's the lowest functioning temperature for them, and at that cold, I'd expect lousy runtimes. I haven't used flashlights in that cold of weather before, but I have used ones down close to 0 degrees F. I prefer a plastic flashlight in very cold weather. Bare metal makes the hand cold and draws heat away from your body. At those temperatures, the light could freeze to your hand. Even small aluminum lights that use the body as a heat sink won't produce enough heat to counter the cold environment. Wear gloves. If you use a metal flashlight, make sure the contacts are all made of the same metal. Different metals contract different amounts in cold weather. If the contacts are of different metals, they might not make good contact in cold weather. This effect may also affect circuit boards for regulation or boost/buck functions. Sometimes, in cold weather, moisture in the air can get in electrical devices and freeze to the circuit. When you turn it on, the device can short out. This happened to a personal CD player of mine on a winter trip to Canada. I would also avoid using bulbs in flashlights in extreme cold. The temperature difference between the hot bulb and the cold air could cause the bulb to blow. Stick to l.e.d.s. If you don't think that effect could happen, try filling a ceramic mug that's been sitting out in below freezing temperatures with boiling hot cocoa. The mug will crack.

If you are going to be using a light in temperatures beyond the operating range of lithium batteries, I'd suggest you get a capacitor powered light like a Nightstar shake light. You can charge it with your shivering. That is the light I use in my car for emergencies as it isn't affected by heat or cold, has no batteries to leak or explode, and requires no maintainence (such as taking it home to recharge occasionally).

 

[StarHalo]

LEDs prefer colder temperatures, they actually get brighter as temps drop. Batteries of course prefer warmth, but as long as you're using lithium cells you should be fine (should your heated car interior not suffice to get a battery working again, it would only take a few moments in your hands).

Don't forget lubricant - most lubes don't do well in extreme cold. I'd go with Sandwich Shoppe's Krytox 50/50 blend (http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=710), as Krytox is good down to at least -90 F, and since it's a grease/oil mix, even if one medium should for some reason begin to seize, the other would continue working. (Nyogel begins to seize at -4 F)

 

[Light Sabre]

My freezer here is at -7F. I took several different kinds of LED flashlights with ordinary alkalines in them and placed them in the freezer overnight. What I discovered in the morning, was that the high current LED's wouldn't turn on, but the low and very low current LED's still lit up. The LED's that lit up were the NiteIze PR dropin in a 2 D light, the Terralux TLE-20 and TLE-5 were both in mini-mags with AA's. The Terralux TLE-6N (2 watts) in a 2D maglite wouldn't even turn on. As the temperature goes down the amount of currrent the batteries can supply goes down. Try using a LED flashlight that doesn't need much current to operate. At -50F the alkalines probably wouldn't even light up anything any more, but I would think the lithiums still would even tho the temp is below their rating. Give it a try and let me know what you find out.

 

[StarHalo]

At -50F the alkalines probably wouldn't even light up anything any more

Definitely not, since the chemical fluid inside them freezes solid at around -20 F

 

[Justin Case]

The Duracell web site says that the typical operating temperature range for alkaline primary cells is -4°F to 130°F. For lithium-manganese primary cells, the typical operating temp range is -40°F to 140°F.

 

[Culhain]

I have never experienced temperatures below -25*F, so I can't comment on behavior at -50*F.

About 15 years ago, while on a winter camping trip I noticed that output of my incan MiniMags really dropped off when the temperature got much below 20*F.

On the next trip out, with the forecast calling for a low of 0*F, I brought along a MiniMag, Mag 2C and Mag 2D all incans loaded with fresh cells. The MiniMag performed similar to the previous trip, leading me to believe that AA size alkalines were of limited use in cold weather. I was surprised that the C cell light performed about like the MiniMag and was only good for about 10*F use. The Mag 2D was the clear winner, with only a modest drop in light output at 0*F.

Thinking back on my tests today, and now knowing that human perception of light is on a logarithmic scale, the output of the 2D light had probably dropped much more than I realized.

Today, the AA lithiums are the clear stand out in cold weather performance with a -60*F rating. If I recall correctly, CR123s are rated for use down to -20*F but have been reported to have adequate performance at lower temperatures.

With the advent of LEDs I have started using smaller lights, which carry easily in my pockets, so I haven't really noticed cold related issues. Then again, the smaller lights are loaded with AA lithiums and/or CR123s.

I'm now curious as to how a MiniMag LED, loaded with today's improved alkaline cells, would perform in the cold.

 

[Mdinana]

I don't know at all, but I'm curious. I'll be in AK in a few months (when the temps start going back up)

 

[Justin Case]

Energizer Ultimate AA Lithium primary cells are advertised on the Energizer web site as operating from -40F to 140F.

 

[parnass]

Alkaline AAA batteries don't work in my outdoor temperature sensor when temperatures drop below 20F or so.

I replaced them with Energizer E2 lithium primary batteries which worked reliably for over 2 years until they were exhausted.

 

[PeteBroccolo]

Well, it was about -43 C (BITTERLY cold, either C or F scale!) with the wind-chill last night, and I was using both my Dorcy 41-4299 with NiCd pack and my Kel-Lite 4 D stubby with 8AA to 2D adaptor with 8 eneloops, yet both of them performed very well.

I was carrying them in my duty coat pockets, and was in and out of the car, checking traffic, but it was still brutal. Both of them had some problems punching through some particularly darkly tinted windows, but very well with both factory and other after-market tint jobs.

I did not use my Pila GL3 using 3 Powerizer RCR123A 680 mAh 3.0 v Li-ion rechargeable cells, but it was on my duty belt being worn under my coat.

 

[Marduke]

As stated above, the lights and bulbs/LED's themselves are of no issue. However, you are basically limited to using Lithium primary cells ONLY in your lights stored or used in those temperatures.

I suggest ordering online to get better prices and free shipping.

 

[BigWaffles]

Thanks for the good info. I hadn't realized that the batteries would be the main issue here, I was more worried about the temp. differential when starting a cold lamp/LED. If we get down to -50 over the next couple of months I'll cold soak both alkalines and lithiums, Incan and LED and do some quick checks. In the meantime, maybe I'll keep the lights in a bag and bring them inside with me at night.


C.P.T.

 

[RobertM]

I wouldn't worry about the incan lamp in your G2; it should be fine. There was a similar discussion a while back that you can read about here. Be sure to read Icebreak's response here (post #23).

Robert

 

[BigWaffles]

I wouldn't worry about the incan lamp in your G2; it should be fine. There was a similar discussion a while back that you can read about here. Be sure to read Icebreak's response here (post #23).

Robert

I had actually read that thread some time ago, must have missed Icebreak's response.

He does brings up a good point. In shadow, the space station exterior lights would be down in the -250 range and don't seem to have problems; must be the tempered glass in the bulbs. Does anybody know what kinds of thermal stress LED epoxy (or whatever they use) can handle? I've not had problems yet but so far my truck has been running for some time before I use a light and they've had time to warm up a little.


C.P.T.

 

[BigWaffles]

We finally got down to -45 this week so I thought I'd do a quick test on a couple of lights in the cold. I left the G2 with Surefire Primaries and the Mini-Mag with the Niteize 3LED drop-in and Alkilines in the truck overnight. I then brought them inside and used the LUX meter to check the output while they were still cold (less than 3 minutes warm-up time). Here's what I found:

Initial Brightness using the lightbox from FlashlightReviews.com and a LUX meter.

G2 on Surefire primaries at room temp: 7570 LUX
G2 on Surefire primaries at -45: 3000 Lux

Mini-Mag with Niteize 3LED drop-in on Alkilines at room temp: 980 Lux
Mini-Mag with Niteize 3LED drop-in on Alkilines at -45: 430 Lux

They both dropped over 50% in initial brightness. Don't know what the runtimes would have been, but I'm betting it wouldn't be long enought to change out a tire in the darkness (<30min).

I guess I answered my own initial question. The Lamp and LEDs seem to be OK with the the cold but the batteries don't like it one bit. I think I'll keep the lights in a small bag and just carry it with me when I head out the door during the winter.


C.P.T.

 

[Burgess]

Thank you for the information, BigWaffles. :thumbsup:


BTW, just for kicks, you oughta' try that Mini-Maglite/3LED
using Energizer L91 Lithium cells.


I'd sure like to know how they'd do.






Stay warm. :candle:


Best of Luck (and health) to you and your loved ones in 2009.
_

 

[tundratrader]

I have lived in Bethel and have never had problems in the extreme cold with any of my lithium lights. Mushers have been using lithiums for many years because they are not effected by the cold. They ship them in there dog drops all over and never seam to have trouble. I personally have never noticed any drop in run time in the coldest temps I have experienced all over the state. I have never measured actual lux output or anything like that though. I am glad you tested though. Glad I am not in the coldest part of the state right now.

 

[tundratrader]

Also I have used TW-25B lubricant on weapons and flashlights for a couple of years and it works great. Cold has never affected it.