Found New Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

[geek4christ]

I found some Energizer 2450 mAh NiMH AA cells in my local Best Buy today. They are the rechargeables that Energizer debuted at CES 2008. Here's the best I can come up with right now for a picture of the packaging: ebay listing.

Here's the data sheet: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nh15-2450.pdf

The packaging displays prominently on the front that they hold their charge up to 40% longer, and on the back of the packaging it said they can hold their charge for up to 6 months. That's great and all, but they're still not LSD cells. I can't for the life of me figure out why Energizer is dragging their feet so much on getting low self-discharge technology to the market.

The label on the back stated that they were made in Japan, and they did not have the stamp on the bottom that the infamous self-discharging 2500mAh cells had. I'm not terribly excited about these as my Eneloops are serving me quite well, but hopefully the uninformed masses that buy Energizer because of brand recognition will be getting at least slightly better cells. Still, though...Energizer has a lot to make up for after putting so many of those 2500mAh cells into consumers hands.

Has anyone else seen these in the wild yet?

 

[TorchBoy]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

I can't for the life of me figure out why Energizer is dragging their feet so much on getting low self-discharge technology to the market.

Well that's easy. They get their main money from primary cells, right? I'm sure you can work it out. :sigh:

 

[geek4christ]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

Well that's easy. They get their main money from primary cells, right? I'm sure you can work it out. :sigh:

That's true, but they also recognize that market growth is in high-performance batteries such as lithium primaries and rechargeables.

From their 2007 SEC filing of Form 10-K:

Energizer competes in the domestic and global battery markets, which have been, in the past, high growth markets. Higher-performance primary and rechargeable batteries have been growing at a faster rate than lower-performing batteries.

 

[baterija]

If they really have lower self discharge than a typical non-LSD cell, it might still be interesting. Call it MSD (moderate self discharge) ...higher initial capacity than an LSD, but not as dramatic a drop off as the typical NiMH. It could be an interesting development if the "regular" rechargeables all go this way.

Or maybe they are measuring the 40% lower discharge rate vs the old 2500 batteries and these still suck.

 

[TorchBoy]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

Higher-performance primary and rechargeable batteries have been growing at a faster rate than lower-performing batteries.

So that would be why Energizer is plugging their lithium primary cells big time. Still lots of profit to be made there. :ironic:

 

[Turbo DV8]

I found some Energizer 2450 mAh NiMH AA cells... they hold their charge up to 40% longer, and they can hold their charge for up to 6 months.

I only notice two over-used, meaningless marketing cliches here: "Lasts X% longer" and "Up to..."

Anytime you read the claim that something lasts up to 40% longer, ask yourself, "40% longer than what?" Their other crap? And "up to?" So, what are they saying? It could actually be only 10% longer? Or 1%? And WOW! It can hold it's charge "up to" 6 months. This gives absolutely no useful information. So, at six months it has officially reached 1.0 volts, 0 volts, or what? Who's to know? Of course, Energizer brilliantly combined "up to" and "40% longer" in one breath... I see absolutely nothing interesting in this "development."

 

[lctorana]

Or maybe they are measuring the 40% lower discharge rate vs the old 2500 batteries and these still suck.

LoL!:laughing:

My 2500s self-discharge from 100% to dead-flat in about 100 hours flat.:mecry: Haven't tossed them yet, but haven't thought of a use for them either...

"MSD" may be in NiCad territory, or back to about where the excellent 1650 mAh NiMH's were.

 

[lumenal]

I noticed these new 2450s at Target about a month ago.

I have spotted them in at least 3 other local retailers.

The color scheme of the 2450s has more yellow and a lighter green to it than the older 2500s... the word RECHARGEABLE is also now prominently displayed on the side of the cell.

I guess with the bad rap the 2500s got, Energizer decided to change things up a bit.

Energizer is clearly moving old stock as the first couple 2450 packages I looked at had 2500s in them. :laughing:

 

[Lynx_Arc]

LoL!:laughing:

My 2500s self-discharge from 100% to dead-flat in about 100 hours flat.:mecry: Haven't tossed them yet, but haven't thought of a use for them either...

"MSD" may be in NiCad territory, or back to about where the excellent 1650 mAh NiMH's were.

I have some of those FSD 2500s.... two days they are half dead, my 2300s I got lot ago seem to hold charge about 2/3rds as long as the rayovac hybrids I have. perhaps these 2450s are rebranded 2300s as mine were right at 2300 and 5% tolerance would be easily 2450.....

 

[TorchBoy]

Anytime you read the claim that something lasts up to 40% longer, ask yourself, "40% longer than what?"

The old incomplete comparative. It's awfully useful in marketing. :shakehead

 

[h2xblive]

Anytime you read the claim that something lasts up to 40% longer, ask yourself, "40% longer than what?"

I suppose it could mean several things. One, 40% refers to 40% more capacity, fresh off the charger. If that's the case, it would show how overrated (capacity-wise) the older 2500 cells were. Two, 40% refers to 40% less self discharge. So instead of losing its charge in 10 days, it loses its charge in 14 days? Lovely

Either way, these cells still seem like junk.

 

[Turbo DV8]

I suppose it ("up to 40% longer") could mean several things...

Absolutely correct, and exactly my point. Since the statement could mean any one of several things, then it actually means nothing.

 

[geek4christ]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

So that would be why Energizer is plugging their lithium primary cells big time. Still lots of profit to be made there. :ironic:

Very true, they are indeed pushing those pretty hard.

I guess they really have the market cornered on common sized lithium primaries now. I wonder, though, will they be more willing to bring worthwhile rechargeables to market once Duracell and other competitors get lithium AAs and AAAs into consumers' hands? Maybe not. Maybe by keeping people turned off of rechargeables, they'll continue pursuing disposables as their primary revenue source in high performance batteries.

 

[TorchBoy]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

... once Duracell and other competitors get lithium AAs and AAAs into consumers' hands?

Why would Duracell go for lithium primaries in a big way? Their growth market is secondary cells now.

 

[geek4christ]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

Why would Duracell go for lithium primaries in a big way? Their growth market is secondary cells now.

Why wouldn't they?

I don't have a lot of insight into the marketing practices of major corporations, but most companies in the product industry are constantly trying to expand into different market segments.

For instance:

• Why would Apple go for personal computers in a big way? Most of their growth was in iPods, after all.
• Why would Microsoft go for portable media players in a big way? Most of their growth was in Microsoft Office licenses, after all.

...and besides...I started this thread in the hopes that we could discuss the new non-LSD rechargeables that Energizer has come out with (thank you to others who have done so). However, you seem to only want to take sentences out of my posts and pick them apart. Can't we just get back on topic and get along?

 

[2xTrinity]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

Why would Duracell go for lithium primaries in a big way? Their growth market is secondary cells now.

Because isntead of charging $2.50 for a rechargeable cell that can be used hundreds of times, they can sell people hundreds of lithium primaries at $2.50each and actually take in a larger margin of profit from each sale?

 

[lumenal]

Anytime you read the claim that something lasts up to 40% longer, ask yourself, "40% longer than what?"

That 40% longer statement on the packaging is followed by an asterisk, which nobody here has mentioned.

And if you bother to read what the asterisk means at the bottom of the packaging, it will tell you that these new 2450 cells will hold their charge 40% longer than cells manufactured before 2006, or something to that effect...

 

[TorchBoy]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

For instance:

• Why would Apple go for personal computers in a big way? Most of their growth was in iPods, after all.

Don't give them ideas! Seriously, they started in that area, so it makes some sense for them to continue, and they are growing there. Similarly, Energizer continues to make alkaline cells, even with their more recent additions.

• Why would Microsoft go for portable media players in a big way? Most of their growth was in Microsoft Office licenses, after all.

They just want it all. :sick2:

Because isntead of charging $2.50 for a rechargeable cell that can be used hundreds of times, they can sell people hundreds of lithium primaries at $2.50each and actually take in a larger margin of profit from each sale?

Yeah, that's a pretty good reason. They would have to first get into that market though, and I've heard there are a few patents in the way (which is one reason why they might not). And I suppose Energizer is doing it even better than you describe, making rechargeables that can be used a few dozen times.

Geek4Christ, I'm not trying to get at you at all, so I'll admit straight out - I have very little confidence in any Energizer-made rechargeable cells. Does anyone actually expect these new cells to be that much better?

Come to think of it, would a CPF test really show how good or bad they really are? Using a MH-C9000 in Analyze mode wouldn't show how they respond to typical consumer charging, for example.

 

[Turbo DV8]

That 40% longer statement on the packaging is followed by an asterisk, which nobody here has mentioned.

And if you bother to read what the asterisk means at the bottom of the packaging, it will tell you that these new 2450 cells will hold their charge 40% longer than cells manufactured before 2006.

Well, that does clarify things greatly. We can now rest assured that Energizer is confident that these brand new cells will hold their charge 40% longer than their cells made before 2006, which have by now devolved to uselessness due to high self-discharge. They should be very proud of such an accomplishment. This is indeed a landmark moment in Energizer's NiMH technology. My confidence has been reestablished. How could I have had so little faith in the cute little bunny? :duh2:

 

[geek4christ]

Re: Found new Energizer 2450mAh NiMH AAs

Geek4Christ, I'm not trying to get at you at all, so I'll admit straight out - I have very little confidence in any Energizer-made rechargeable cells. Does anyone actually expect these new cells to be that much better?

Ah, I gotcha. I feel the same way about their rechargeables. I was sort of expecting that these would be a big meh from the flashaholic crowd. But I thought it was interesting that they have new cells that are seemingly so very little better than their previous 2500mAh cells.

That 40% longer statement on the packaging is followed by an asterisk, which nobody here has mentioned.

And if you bother to read what the asterisk means at the bottom of the packaging, it will tell you that these new 2450 cells will hold their charge 40% longer than cells manufactured before 2006, or something to that effect...

Thanks lumenal. I think I did indeed miss that part when I saw them in the store. That does clear things up. They're basically releasing 'new' cells that have nothing at all to get excited about. These are what they should have immediately replaced all their 2500mAh cells with after they learned that they self-discharge so quickly.