Goodbye OLD CPF Friend From An Old CPF Friend! A Tribute To Greta And History Of A Great Forum!

Got Lumens?

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
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Location
Champlain Valley
When i first started posting here i had more of the impression that surefire was hated by most people rather than protected by them. I never really paid attention to any of that though. I've always had good experiences with the company and while having a warranty repair done at their headquarters, spent a half hour talking with an old English guy out front in the rain. We started to chat about weapon lights and he went into a mind numbing explanation on excessive lumen output and the way it affects your situational awareness, especially when indoors... causing tunnel vision, among other things. The guy was fascinating and after about 30 minutes he said "oh... break time is up. the good thing about being the boss is there's nobody to get mad at you when you get lost in conversation". I then realized i had not introduced myself, and after i did he replies that he's Dr. Peter Hauk, and gave me his card. Though i only spoke with him for a short while, i can confidently say he was one of the most brilliant men i've ever met. I hear he passed away two years ago.

I'm not trying to start anything but I've read this exact post on this forum several times from several people haha.

This is true, to a point. Surefire had filed class action lawsuits against several flashlight makers here in the US.
China was untouchable. This all came about in January 2012 during the Shotshow. The supenias were handed out to
the US attendee's, most of which had a presence there.

This is what drove the 4Sevens changes from the Quark and all legacy lights to the newer MKII's that all had anodized
threads that conformed to the twisty head feature that changed modes. That is also why David had sold off his entire
legacy 4Sevens inventory at bargain prices.

There were several CPF members that disliked the how, and when, Surefire had chosen to enforce their patented
technologies, which included 4Sevens legacy dual mode head tight and head loose that allowed two mode groups.

Surefire here on CPF's compares to Emerson knives on the Usual Suspect Network forum. They both were early supporters
and drove both forums with interested members into what we have today. I am speculating that Surefire was the top
choice for hosts that CPF members used to create their modded flashlights, back then.

Take Care
GL
 

Got Lumens?

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Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
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Champlain Valley
@bigburly912 .. Deja vu! I'm not sure if it's the same OP,, but it's a nice story
knucklegary,
No
I was not the original poster, or am I one whom had spoken badly against Surefire. There were many CPF members who were upset and coined the phrase "Suefire". I keep moving forward, I can not change the past. I am quite happy to be friends with David and Jason. I don't recall how many other companies, or which one's, that were affected. It's been over ten years now, and Surefire is still doing well. Surefire has maintained popularity among US Military, and many flashlight enthusiasts throughout the world. It would be disrespectful of me to hold grudges against an American Flashlight company that did what they had to do to survive and limit the the use of their patients and technologies to benefit others to profit from. The LED flashlight world back then was under enormous growth of new designs and ideas.

An example, Guy from Match Box Instruments had to contact the Andy owner of Sunwayman to end them stealing the name of one of his flashlights, the "Torpedo". The flashlight realm is bigger now than it was then. Everyone knew Everyone else back then, or at least were able to talk to one another. I own one of the only 500 produced with that insignia. :).
GL
 
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Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
19,561
Location
NYC
The period I speak of was before 2006. And it was not that management would outright ban a member for disagreeing that SureFire the greatest but that other members would lash out, ridicule, flame, troll, whatever it's called... the non SureFire worshipping member either until they said "screw this place I'm gone" or would in relatiation produce an attempted argument using perrsonal attacks or other behavior that resulted in the member being removed due to behavior policies.
Honestly, there were a few members (non-Admins./non-Moderators) who very strongly disagreed with some of my criticisms of SureFire and certain SF models, back in the day. That mentality lasted well past 2006. No comments that I'd call extremely severe. And shutting up the haters was easy enough.

"Post a pic. of your Surefire _______ model, and tell me how I'm wrong."

Yup, the blindly devoted defenders never seemed to actually own that particular model I was criticizing. If the situation with the SureFire Sacred Cow loyalists was that bad, I would have just stayed at EDCF and not returned to these forums.

(Back when EDCF wasn't a cesspool. Honestly, Jon's a good guy himself. He just makes horribly poor decisions when it comes to business opportunities and whom he trusts, especially on his Moderator/Admin. team.)
 

bigburly912

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
3,361
Location
Virginia
This is true, to a point. Surefire had filed class action lawsuits against several flashlight makers here in the US.
China was untouchable. This all came about in January 2012 during the Shotshow. The supenias were handed out to
the US attendee's, most of which had a presence there.

This is what drove the 4Sevens changes from the Quark and all legacy lights to the newer MKII's that all had anodized
threads that conformed to the twisty head feature that changed modes. That is also why David had sold off his entire
legacy 4Sevens inventory at bargain prices.

There were several CPF members that disliked the how, and when, Surefire had chosen to enforce their patented
technologies, which included 4Sevens legacy dual mode head tight and head loose that allowed two mode groups.

Surefire here on CPF's compares to Emerson knives on the Usual Suspect Network forum. They both were early supporters
and drove both forums with interested members into what we have today. I am speculating that Surefire was the top
choice for hosts that CPF members used to create their modded flashlights, back then.

Take Care
GL
I was referring to the post where the guy said word for word what several here over the years have about meeting "the man" at surefire. For some reason my quotes didn't work and then the forum died.
 

Got Lumens?

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
2,457
Location
Champlain Valley
I was referring to the post where the guy said word for word what several here over the years have about meeting "the man" at surefire. For some reason my quotes didn't work and then the forum died.
No Worries.
The forum dying maybe the downtime everyday for forum's maintenance.
I just had it happen yesterday and retired to sleep, before waiting to come back today :D
 

Sigman

* The Arctic Moderator *
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
10,124
Location
"The 49th State"
WOW, just WOW...been a looooooooong time folks! Absolutely thankful the ole' forum is still thriving! So many life changes and priorities redirected my direction in life. I do miss the forum and all of the members (old and new ones I've not conversed with). I'm going to try and catch up on things slowly. I need to get hold of SilverFox!!!
 

Derek Dean

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
2,426
Location
Monterey, CA
Gene, you will be missed. I always looked forward to hearing your take on things. I can't even begin to fathom how much I've learned over the years from the friendly folks on this forum, but I can tell you one thing, it's been a extraordinarily fun ride.
 

Bronco

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
495
Location
Los Angeles
In the US they were, In Canada at the time they were the most expensive. A 12 pack from the local supply was around $90. When Cabela's finally arrived here I think the price dropped down to $54 for a 12 pack. I remember ordering the Energizer bulk packs from Battery Junction and it worked out to around $3.30 per cell by the time I paid shipping and customs fee's. When they came out with true 3v rechargeable's that was a game changer except often with a further reduced runtime. I want to say runtime with a standard P60 dropped to 40 minutes on 2 rechargeable cells?

Many have been here long enough to remember SF's inventiveness back in the days before they were able to ramp up the manufacturing and sales of their own branded CR123s.

At the time, SF absolutely was willing to subsidize the cost of CR123s, as a way to both promote the popularity of lithium primaries and to increase their overall flashlight market share. The problem was, the established, big name battery manufacturers wouldn't allow SF to sell their CR123s directly to the consumer at such large markdowns.

This prompted some outside-the-box thinker at SF to come up with the idea for the "hurricane lamp". IIRC, it was twelve CR123 batteries set in a plastic box (arranged in three rows of four) that were wired together to power a very small, not particularly bright, bulb set in the center of the case. There was a simple on-off slider and, according to the official marketing language of the day, it would provide a useable level of light for an extremely long time in the event of a power outage, hurricane or other natural disaster.

In reality though, it was an ingenious way to get fresh CR123's in the hands of their customers for roughly the same subsidized price they had been forbidden from selling the batteries alone. In this case though, SF could tell the battery manufacturers that they were selling a flashlight that just happened to come with batteries included. Genius.
 

Bronco

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
495
Location
Los Angeles
@Bronco, I've been familiar with the Hurricane for years, but until reading your post I had no idea of their brilliance. Thanks for the history lesson. 👍 👍

Happy to share the memories, Chauncey. It seems like the last 20 years just flew by. (y)

1688270948944.png
 
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ghostguy6

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
262
Location
Ed, Ab
Many have been here long enough to remember SF's inventiveness back in the days before they were able to ramp up the manufacturing and sales of their own branded CR123s.

At the time, SF absolutely was willing to subsidize the cost of CR123s, as a way to both promote the popularity of lithium primaries and to increase their overall flashlight market share. The problem was, the established, big name battery manufacturers wouldn't allow SF to sell their CR123s directly to the consumer at such large markdowns.

This prompted some outside-the-box thinker at SF to come up with the idea for the "hurricane lamp". IIRC, it was twelve CR123 batteries set in a plastic box (arranged in three rows of four) that were wired together to power a very small, not particularly bright, bulb set in the center of the case. There was a simple on-off slider and, according to the official marketing language of the day, it would provide a useable level of light for an extremely long time in the event of a power outage, hurricane or other natural disaster.

In reality though, it was an ingenious way to get fresh CR123's in the hands of their customers for roughly the same subsidized price they had been forbidden from selling the batteries alone. In this case though, SF could tell the battery manufacturers that they were selling a flashlight that just happened to come with batteries included. Genius.
I think it had more to do with some sort of shipping arrangements between SF and their authorized retailers. Prices for SF and Streamlight products were always much higher here and I was told because they had to buy direct from them at MSRP prices. Of course they then had to charge more to make a profit. It made no sense as I could buy a light from a US vendor, have it shipped and pay less than local even with the dollar mark up and extra customs charges. Eventually SF caught on then made it so US vendors could not ship SF products outside of the US. Legally a civilian can still ship a US purchased light out of the country though.
Now to legally import lithium cells from the US they must be declared as dangerous goods and only certain carriers are allowed to be used which really drove up the price. And to top it off these carriers all charge their own outrageous brokerage fees.

Its too bad because I used to order a lot of stuff from Battery Junction but now much of thier product line can not be shipped to me or it costs me way to much to justify the shipping expenses.
 

Kestrel

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
7,313
Location
Willamette Valley, OR
Hello all; thanks to Gene for starting the thread, sad to see another retirement of course. We had a few good conversations back in the day.
Hi to a few old friends that dropped by as well; good to see you. ;-) I do maintain my CPF contact list in my phone for texting.
Monocrom, I know you could be grumpy at times but I don't think I ever found technical fault with any of your posts; a 'straight shooter' for sure. Cheers.

I'll probably drop in from time to time, but like others here my current inventory of flashlights continue to work very well indeed.
Best regards,
K
 

Stress_Test

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,334
I'm sorry, but coming from the single biggest critic of SureFire on CPF from years back; that was just a rumor started by the haters. I know because not once did I get banned, suspended, admonished, or even given a hazy warning to back off of my negative SF-related comments by any Admin. or moderator.

Didn't happen a single time. "Bought the SureFire _______ model. There's an issue with it. Here it is...."

Not once did anyone try to muzzle me. Criticism wasn't the problem. You could do that to any brand. If it was blatantly obvious that someone was bashing just for the sake of doing so, well that was a different story. Greta would give offenders numerous chances to comply with the rules. She was never a wall-flower. Wouldn't put up with anyone trying to push her around. Lots of respect to her for that. Those members who got perma-banned brought it upon themselves.

Huh, well I got banned over Surefire once, and I wasn't even criticizing them directly.

When I signed on it was SureFire worship and Maglite hate (ironically, Maglite was hated for suing a small company, Arc)

The Maglite bashing grated on me at times, just petty pointlessness that would turn a thread into a dogpile on Maglite.

Anyway, in such a thread, somebody posted something negative about SureFire and ended up banned. I pointed out the hypocrisy that the whole thread was dumping on Maglight but that guy got banned for saying something bad about SureFire. I was promptly banned.

That was a long time ago (like 2008) so it's ancient history now, and that particular mod who I despised eventually left so it's all gravy.
 
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