HDS 325 Lumen longer throw offering...

[Hogokansatsukan]

@Hogo
Cool deal I ll look forward to a report cause I m definitely interested in it. I m currently looking for a R9080 sw45 and though it's hi cri I d love to hear that 325 is a better performer than the 9080... plus i know the 71 vs 93 approximately may be a huge difference on the sphere but can we see the difference with our eyes and which in your opinion would you recommend to be the better and most useful of the 2?

Can't really compare the NB45 to this. One is for color rendering, and one is for seeing farther. To me, it looks much warmer than 5000k but I am playing with the one taken right from the sphere so I know it is 5000k.

Does it really punch out farther... it has about the same beam pattern as the 250 but with a lower color temp and 75 more lumens. I tend to think that cooler temps seem to punch out more than warmer temps but that could just be my old eyes... and honestly, 75 lumens from 250-325 really isn't a big difference (heck, I still my High Noon all time). To my eyes, it does punch out a hair further, but with a slightly more pleasant tint.

 

[Tejasandre]

I really like my nb45, but it needs punch. I'll try to put up 3o'clock, nb45 & the newbie shots when it arrives. Or after I'm back from vacation.

 

[usdiver]

I really like my nb45, but it needs punch. I'll try to put up 3o'clock, nb45 & the newbie shots when it arrives. Or after I'm back from vacation.

Thanks I was looking for a 45 but guts telling me to be happy with the high noon. If it ain't got punch I won't be happy with it.

 

[Tejasandre]

Thanks I was looking for a 45 but guts telling me to be happy with the high noon. If it ain't got punch I won't be happy with it.

It's enough to "see" to the end of my backyard, but not enough to "light it up". If that makes any sense. Of course a q8 doesn't really pocket carry though. Lol.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Looking forward to outdoor beamshots on this light.

 

[usdiver]

Looking forward to outdoor beamshots on this light.

Me too!

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Ordered one, couldn't take it anymore.

 

[Modernflame]

I'm sure this has been measured at some point, but what is the lux at one meter from an HDS? Is there a comparison chart somewhere with different emitters?

 

[bigburly912]

I'm waiting to see how much of an improvement it really is. I kill the throw on my HDS most of the time with diffuse reflectors but it would be nice to have one that can punch a little as well. Very interesting!

 

[emarkd]

I'm sure this has been measured at some point, but what is the lux at one meter from an HDS? Is there a comparison chart somewhere with different emitters?

I have some numbers that I measured myself. Standard caveat applies here, as always -- my meter is a reasonably cheap light meter that I think is fine for this usage and tends to jive quite nicely with numbers tested on much nicer equipment and/or published by manufacturers, but it is not a NIST-certified meter. Wish I had one, but I don't. So take all these numbers with a grain of salt, so to speak:

Light / Emitter	Tested Lumens	Candela	Throw
HCri200 (stock 200 lm 219b)	204	3000 cd	110 meters
HDS 250 (stock 250 lm Cree XP-G2)	252	4500 cd	134 meters
Modded - Nichia 219b SW45k	198	3000 cd	110 meters
Modded - XP-L HI 3D	322	6200 cd	157 meters
Modded - Samsung LH351d	360	2900 cd	109 meters
Ra GD170 (Osram Golden Dragon)	160	4100 cd	128 meters

A few things to note:

• I included the tested lumens numbers so you could get an idea of how my cheap meter lines up with HDSs good equipment, so you can formulate your own "correction factor" for my numbers or whatever you need to do. Plus it gives you a baseline for the modded lights which are unique.
• The Stock Hcri200 219b and my modded SW45k 219b read almost exactly the same. That's to be expected but just wanted to highlight.
• I don't have numbers for a stock 325, never tested one. Sorry.
• I also don't have numbers on any of the official Nichia 219c runs, like the High Noon or 3 o'clock high. I didn't get in on those. But since they're very similar in size to the 219b and also tuned to output 200 lumens I'd expect very similar throw numbers as well, so I think 3000cd/110 meters is a safe estimate on those.
• The Ra Clicky is just included as a reference point, and maybe an illustration of how beam shape effects these numbers. That's the lowest lumen light on the list but far from the shortest throw distance. In fact it makes less than half the lumens of the Samsung but easily out-throws it, because its tiny and produces a narrow beam.

So I'll leave it at that for others to draw their own conclusions about the possible performance of the XP-G3. I don't have much experience with that emitter so won't be any help there. Sorry.

 

[Modernflame]

Thanks, emarkd! That's exactly what I was hoping for. I think the group will benefit from this information, too.

Cheers

 

[jon_slider]

Light / Emitter	Tested Lumens	Candela	Throw
HCri200 (stock 200 lm 219b)	204	3000 cd	110 meters
HDS 250 (stock 250 lm Cree XP-G2)	252	4500 cd	134 meters
Modded - Nichia 219b SW45k	198	3000 cd	110 meters
Modded - XP-L HI 3D	322	6200 cd	157 meters
Modded - Samsung LH351d	360	2900 cd	109 meters
Ra GD170 (Osram Golden Dragon)	160	4100 cd	128 meters

Outstanding post!
Throw is exactly the kind of empirical info I like to use for comparisons.

Thank You!

I recommend that HDS should inform us of the Throw specs for the HDS w XP-G3 and the HDS 250 lumen w XP-G2. That info would be more valuable than any beamshot alone.

bear in mind that throw goes up as hotspot size goes down, so IF you want more throw, you need to accept a smaller hotspot. If you want a larger hotspot, get ready for less throw, for example the HDS 325 most likely measures less throw than the HDS 250.. but, Im just guessing there..

I think HDS should offer Throw specs on all their LED offerings. It would spare us a bunch of opinionating without quantifyable references.

 

[usdiver]

I ve actually done my own test with that HDS 250, haven't had anything else to compare except the FL 425 Tommy which the Navy Seal 250 actually matched. (The 425 allowed you to see only a hair better due to better tint color) but the 250 reached the same distance at .09 miles or 475 ft/ 149 meters.
If the new 325 5000 either matches the 250 distance OR punches out just even a hair further then still a worthwhile effort to be celebrated...

 

[usdiver]

Jon this was exactly the case with the 325 xpl 4000k run.... the 250 out threw it not by a lot but noticeable difference with the eyes.
I m voting for the new 325 and quite excited about it.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

How do you know if you have an XPL or XP-G3... They look the same, don't they?

Not exactly. I figured this might come into play in the used market in the future as both are 325 and have the same yellow indicator ring inside the head. This is easier than taking the reflector assembly off to look at the board.

325 XPL... notice the 4 petals like a flower in the reflection. That is XP-L.

No petals... that is XP-G3

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

I thought the XP-G3 had the same footprint as the XP-G2?? Shouldn't it be smaller?

EDIT: Googled it, looks like the XP-G3 is bigger.

 

[Random Dan]

I thought the XP-G3 had the same footprint as the XP-G2?? Shouldn't it be smaller?

EDIT: Googled it, looks like the XP-G3 is bigger.

I think XP-G3 and XP-G2 have same footprint and dies size. XP-L is an XM-L sized die in an XP-G sized footprint. The trick is now that Cree is covering the entire chip in phosphor it's hard to see the difference in die size. I wonder though if it would be apparent when the light is turned on at moonlight?

 

[jon_slider]

there is also a dot on the XP-G3, that is different than the square on the XP-G2
afaict the XP-L does not have the dot the XP-G3 has... here is a pic of both XP-L and XM-L2 (which does have a dot like the XP-G3)

...

 

[emarkd]

The footprint and solder pads are the same on all these y'all are discussing. That's what the XP prefix means in Cree -- 3535 footprint with center thermal pad. Any emitter that starts with an XP-something will mount on the same board.

 

[jon_slider]

Any emitter that starts with an XP-something will mount on the same board.

same footprint, yes
different shape and size of the die

XP-L is an XM-L sized die

yes,
I believe the
illuminated portion on the XP-L is larger, and looks like a square
and
the illuminated portion on the XP-G3 is smaller, and looks round

a 325 XP-L has a wider hotspot, with less throw
a 325 XP-G3 has a tighter hotspot, with more throw