Hello from Iraq - Need help deciding. Olight vs. Surefire?
- Thread starter BaileyMoto
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biker1
Enlightened
Wow, I wasn't expecting this much support/suggestions. Thanks everyone. Been watching this thread and researching everything mentioned.
In response to the above, they are all Duracell Ultra - model CR17345
I think what this thread HAS helped me to realize - I need at least 2 lights - heh. Soooo, I just bought one of those 4Seven's Preon 2 Pen lights (2.2/22/160 lumens) for a true EDC and flight suit pocket. Took a hard look at those HDS lights, but I think I will settle on a Surefire, at least for my first 'expensive' purchase. I believe I have settled on the E2DL, but I'm giving the LX2 some thought as well. Beyond that, I'll probably hang around this board and figure out what I want to get for a 'less serious' light.
Thanks everyone.
Only 100 Batteries, that's it? j/k!
You have more than enough batteries to last you, and your buddies for quite a while
Just make sure the expiration is ok, which I'm sure they are.
I would suggest getting yourself a Ra 120 tactical (taller button, easier to activate on a gun).
Send it off to this guy: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221430
for a neutral XP-G upgrade.
You'll get a very durable, compact, weapon mountable light with some serious light output (sorry, no specifics, but definitely an increase), great efficiency and a nice, incandescent-like light output.
Don't bother getting a higher-output model, and having the same mod done. It won't result in any greater output. It'll just be a waste of money. All the models are calibrated for efficiency, not output, so the higher output models have more efficient LED's than the lower output ones, but not much else is changed.
Send it off to this guy: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221430
for a neutral XP-G upgrade.
You'll get a very durable, compact, weapon mountable light with some serious light output (sorry, no specifics, but definitely an increase), great efficiency and a nice, incandescent-like light output.
Don't bother getting a higher-output model, and having the same mod done. It won't result in any greater output. It'll just be a waste of money. All the models are calibrated for efficiency, not output, so the higher output models have more efficient LED's than the lower output ones, but not much else is changed.
MrBenchmark
Enlightened
The big differences between the E2DL and the LX2:
- crenelated strike bezel on the E2DL
- E2DL is a click interface, LX2 is twist / press
- E2DL is high / low - LX2 is low / high (Although you can get to high instantly by pushing more firmly.)
- low mode on E2DL is 5 lumens, 15 lumens on the LX2.
Depends a lot on your preferences and application as to which is a better choice. I'm a "low first" kind of person (I try to preserve my dark adapted vision), so I like the LX2. The 15 lumen LX2 would be somewhat bright for reading maps at night, imo. (Depends a LOT on your typical lighting conditions - in some cases that's not too much light at all.)
BaileyMoto
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Yea, the LX2 switch sounds really nice. I don't mind having to 'press hard' to achieve the high settings - same effect really, but with the option of using the low light first. As someone else mentioned here, it's about as perfect as you can get for a general use/tactical combo. I agree. Just not sure I can stomach spending $200 on a flashlight at this point. But, I used to have the same feeling about optics (scopes), and now I generally don't spend less than a grand on a good scope. Buy once, cry once - right?
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Now almost 60 year old, I have owned and experimented with many brands and types of lights. In the past two years, I have given over 20 flashligthts away as gifts (trying to downsize), and still have about 20 around the house, many of which are Surefires. My short answer to your question is just like the earlier post: "No doubt at all, Surefire."
In the past decades, I never have had better response from a manufacturer than either Malkoff or Surefire. Theirs has always been an almost instant return/repair. In contrast, The most recent dead light, a Fenix PD30+ R4 I sent in over a month ago will take another three months to get back, according to the factory estimate.
For me, Surefire and Malkoff products have been really rock solid dependable. My family and friend LEOs most requested light upgrade is either a Surefire 6p or C2 upgraded with either a Malkoff M60 or the newer Malkoff M61 and a tail clicky switch. These guys need to be able to use their issued CR123 or sometimes RCR123s. They are not the most bright, but close while using only two CR123s. They have excellent hot spots and spill, as well as runtime. In real life, I know that these lights have been dropped, fought over, run over, used for hours at a time almost constantly and just keep on doing their job. Nothing fancy, just workhorse reliable.
I use the 4Sevens Quark AA mini on a keychain for simple causal use if the use is going to be very short and very close range. For anything else, one of the Surefires is grabbed (unless I want something far more powerful, but those don't run on 2 CR123s).
Thanks for serving, and God Bless you and your buds!
In the past decades, I never have had better response from a manufacturer than either Malkoff or Surefire. Theirs has always been an almost instant return/repair. In contrast, The most recent dead light, a Fenix PD30+ R4 I sent in over a month ago will take another three months to get back, according to the factory estimate.
For me, Surefire and Malkoff products have been really rock solid dependable. My family and friend LEOs most requested light upgrade is either a Surefire 6p or C2 upgraded with either a Malkoff M60 or the newer Malkoff M61 and a tail clicky switch. These guys need to be able to use their issued CR123 or sometimes RCR123s. They are not the most bright, but close while using only two CR123s. They have excellent hot spots and spill, as well as runtime. In real life, I know that these lights have been dropped, fought over, run over, used for hours at a time almost constantly and just keep on doing their job. Nothing fancy, just workhorse reliable.
I use the 4Sevens Quark AA mini on a keychain for simple causal use if the use is going to be very short and very close range. For anything else, one of the Surefires is grabbed (unless I want something far more powerful, but those don't run on 2 CR123s).
Thanks for serving, and God Bless you and your buds!
Having to press harder sounds pretty simple in writing. But in practice I find it quite a pain, and also impractical for more than a few seconds.
You'll have to maintain a pretty firm press constantly to maintain the high setting.
Tactically speaking I don't know whether low/high or high/low is better.
You'll have to maintain a pretty firm press constantly to maintain the high setting.
Tactically speaking I don't know whether low/high or high/low is better.
BaileyMoto
Newly Enlightened
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I'm no authority on the subject, but I would prefer that high be easily and quickly accessible while using it intermittently to find and/or blind the subject.
This guy has some decent advice concerning home defense tactics:
Home Defense (Part II) Clearing Around Corners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJdvdiTrquI&feature=related
Home Defense Lighting Issues Part IV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKI1TrPcCQ&feature=related
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jellydonut
Enlightened
You still have access to a constant low and high mode with the SF two-stage momentary switch - it's just that for the purposes of constant-on light the light functions as a twisty light. I carry my SF A2 every day and I find it a sound concept. Clicky switches have their place but this is not bad at all. If you need high mode for longer periods of time just twist the light on.
For weapon mounting I wouldn't even consider a clicky switch over a momentary tail switch, but I guess that's to each of us to decide.
For weapon mounting I wouldn't even consider a clicky switch over a momentary tail switch, but I guess that's to each of us to decide.
biker1
Enlightened
Regarding H-L or L-H, I would think there can be reasons when both sequences can be an advantage.
The H-L can be an advantage in a Tactical situation when blinding lumens are needed immediately.
The L-H can be an advantage if you're in a tactical situation where stealth is needed, yet you need a dim light to look at a map, etc. In this instance, you wouldn't want 200 lumens to come on and possibly give away your position.
2 lights may be an option.
A Surefire E2D LED to be assured you will have 200 lumens in an instant when needed.
A secondary light, when you need low lumens only, and no chance of 200 lumens coming on all of a sudden.
These lights, especially a low lumen light are very lite, and wouldn't take up hardly any space at all, so 2 lights is always an option.
Sometimes you cannot have 1 Tool (all purpose tool) which would be optimal in 2 different situations.
Especially in War, better to have 2 Tools for 2 different situations.
The H-L can be an advantage in a Tactical situation when blinding lumens are needed immediately.
The L-H can be an advantage if you're in a tactical situation where stealth is needed, yet you need a dim light to look at a map, etc. In this instance, you wouldn't want 200 lumens to come on and possibly give away your position.
2 lights may be an option.
A Surefire E2D LED to be assured you will have 200 lumens in an instant when needed.
A secondary light, when you need low lumens only, and no chance of 200 lumens coming on all of a sudden.
These lights, especially a low lumen light are very lite, and wouldn't take up hardly any space at all, so 2 lights is always an option.
Sometimes you cannot have 1 Tool (all purpose tool) which would be optimal in 2 different situations.
Especially in War, better to have 2 Tools for 2 different situations.
MrBenchmark
Enlightened
Other factors on hi-lo vs. lo-hi - what's your dark adaptation like typically?
If dark adapted? L-H
Not at all? H-L
What's the ambient light like around you?
Pretty bright? H-L
Dark? L-H
How dangerous is your situation when you will use the light typically?
Dangerous? H-L
Not dangerous? L-H
Some examples:
- a police officer doing a night time traffic stop. His night vision is terrible because of vehicle headlights. His situation is potentially quite dangerous so he needs to see in the vehicle with full clarity IMMEDIATELY. Hi-Lo is the right choice.
- Reading a map in a dark camp. L-H - you're dark adapted, and a hi-low light will blow away your dark adaptation completely. (And it will come to irritate the hell out of you pretty quickly.)
- Doing just about anything at sunrise / sunset. Your night vision (and vision in general) is terrible in this situation. You want H-L, because you'll need the light because your vision is just not very efficient in this situation.
Anyway, it seems to me that this is all completely situational.
If dark adapted? L-H
Not at all? H-L
What's the ambient light like around you?
Pretty bright? H-L
Dark? L-H
How dangerous is your situation when you will use the light typically?
Dangerous? H-L
Not dangerous? L-H
Some examples:
- a police officer doing a night time traffic stop. His night vision is terrible because of vehicle headlights. His situation is potentially quite dangerous so he needs to see in the vehicle with full clarity IMMEDIATELY. Hi-Lo is the right choice.
- Reading a map in a dark camp. L-H - you're dark adapted, and a hi-low light will blow away your dark adaptation completely. (And it will come to irritate the hell out of you pretty quickly.)
- Doing just about anything at sunrise / sunset. Your night vision (and vision in general) is terrible in this situation. You want H-L, because you'll need the light because your vision is just not very efficient in this situation.
Anyway, it seems to me that this is all completely situational.
skyfire
Flashlight Enthusiast
i first purchased the LX2 but couldnt get used to the twisty. exchanged it for an e2dl and now very satisfied. I use the light primarily on high, so it works well for my needs, the feel of the light is one of the best of any 2x cr123 lights ive ever held. something about the e-series design.
I have thought about selling it, only because im a warm tint junkie.
and if i need a low light application, i just pull out my high cri clicky. same can be done with your 4sevens preon2. nice choice btw, I gifted a neutral tint version to my cousin whom is a respiratory therapist.
another also suggested a headlamp, which can be very useful.
I have thought about selling it, only because im a warm tint junkie.
and if i need a low light application, i just pull out my high cri clicky. same can be done with your 4sevens preon2. nice choice btw, I gifted a neutral tint version to my cousin whom is a respiratory therapist.
another also suggested a headlamp, which can be very useful.
Xacto
Enlightened
Get two lights - two "old" Surefire 6P incans. Exchange one P60 lamp for an LED dropin (Malkoff gets mentioned here often).
For the second, low level light, take the second Surefire 6P and either add some multi-mode dropin or one one-mode dropin with a low output. Since you are a flight medic, you could keep the P60 lamp and just add the Surefire color filters, red and blue should come handy around an aircraft. If you are around people with NVGs, you could add an IR-filter (Today I learned that they only work with incans).
So - why two times the same light? Simple - its the KISS principle. Both your lights work the same way (Clicky or twisty at your discretion) and just in case one fails, you can still swap the dropins to have the one light you need the most. Or - if both lights fail for different reasons - you can lego them to one working light. Now try this with two totally different lights.
Cheers and stay safe down there.
Thorsten
For the second, low level light, take the second Surefire 6P and either add some multi-mode dropin or one one-mode dropin with a low output. Since you are a flight medic, you could keep the P60 lamp and just add the Surefire color filters, red and blue should come handy around an aircraft. If you are around people with NVGs, you could add an IR-filter (Today I learned that they only work with incans).
So - why two times the same light? Simple - its the KISS principle. Both your lights work the same way (Clicky or twisty at your discretion) and just in case one fails, you can still swap the dropins to have the one light you need the most. Or - if both lights fail for different reasons - you can lego them to one working light. Now try this with two totally different lights.
Cheers and stay safe down there.
Thorsten
Flashlightboy
Enlightened
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- 856
:serious rant mode turned on:
What is wrong with every one of you people who first jump into flashlight mode? The man is doing a dangerous job that few of you would do and not a single person, until post #17, does someone thank him for his service.
You know, I signed on to candlepowerforums years ago (my membership was about #300) and if you do a search you'll find that CPF took up collections, donated $ and worked with retailers to get many lights to units in Iraq who needed them because we appreciated them and what they were doing.
You forgetful people. The VERY first thing typed by the tips of your fingers should be thanking him for his service. Then talk about lights.
:serious rant mode turned off:
Thanks for your service.
Now go back to flashlights....
What is wrong with every one of you people who first jump into flashlight mode? The man is doing a dangerous job that few of you would do and not a single person, until post #17, does someone thank him for his service.
You know, I signed on to candlepowerforums years ago (my membership was about #300) and if you do a search you'll find that CPF took up collections, donated $ and worked with retailers to get many lights to units in Iraq who needed them because we appreciated them and what they were doing.
You forgetful people. The VERY first thing typed by the tips of your fingers should be thanking him for his service. Then talk about lights.
:serious rant mode turned off:
Thanks for your service.
Now go back to flashlights....
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I tried a two-mode E2L, and I didn't like it. I think it's terrible for tactical use. From what I understand, in a tactical situation, you won't be using your light in a 'constant on' mode. You'll have it in your hands and when you need to light something up, you do it for the absolute minimum amount of time necessary. This usually involves a lot of intermittant clicking. No problem so far.
The problem with the Surefire 2-mode clicky lights (E1B, E2DL, etc) is that if you're frequently clicking it on and off, the mode will constantly be changing, since the mode changes if you click the light on within a certain time frame (a couple of seconds?). Thus, you'll be in a situation where you want all hi-mode, and everytime you turn it on you'll get hi-lo-hi-lo-hi. Or, you'll be in a situation where you want lo-mode, and you have to turn it on high first to get to lo. The trick is to cover the lens with your hand until the light is at the right level. But you can't do this if you have a weapon in your other hand.
I prefer lights that have non-switch selectable levels. My current favorite is a Surefire U2. The best thing about it is that it has both a clicky and selector ring to allow the light level to be selected independently from the switch. Also, it has a very low lo-mode. This is great for walking around at night where you want to see the ground but don't want to ruin your night vision.
Although the U2 is great, I think a better, cheaper alternative is a Malkoff MD2 flashlight with a hi-lo ring. The hi-lo ring allows the user to change the output levels by twisting the bezel. The Malkoff dropin is simply the best in the world, bar none. Plus, you can easily upgrade your light as new technology comes out. The price is cheap, in my opinion, for what you get.
Good luck, and stay safe.
-John
The problem with the Surefire 2-mode clicky lights (E1B, E2DL, etc) is that if you're frequently clicking it on and off, the mode will constantly be changing, since the mode changes if you click the light on within a certain time frame (a couple of seconds?). Thus, you'll be in a situation where you want all hi-mode, and everytime you turn it on you'll get hi-lo-hi-lo-hi. Or, you'll be in a situation where you want lo-mode, and you have to turn it on high first to get to lo. The trick is to cover the lens with your hand until the light is at the right level. But you can't do this if you have a weapon in your other hand.
I prefer lights that have non-switch selectable levels. My current favorite is a Surefire U2. The best thing about it is that it has both a clicky and selector ring to allow the light level to be selected independently from the switch. Also, it has a very low lo-mode. This is great for walking around at night where you want to see the ground but don't want to ruin your night vision.
Although the U2 is great, I think a better, cheaper alternative is a Malkoff MD2 flashlight with a hi-lo ring. The hi-lo ring allows the user to change the output levels by twisting the bezel. The Malkoff dropin is simply the best in the world, bar none. Plus, you can easily upgrade your light as new technology comes out. The price is cheap, in my opinion, for what you get.
Good luck, and stay safe.
-John
MrBenchmark
Enlightened
Sorry I didn't mention this before, BailyMoto, but thanks sincerely for puttin' it on the line so that the rest of us don't have to! It is a big sacrifice - stay safe so that it's not too big of one.
On that unhappy note, since potentially your life could depend on your gear, I'd definitely look towards SF or HDS rather than trying to save a few bucks. I don't think either Olight or JB are in the same league in terms of quality. I wouldn't trust my life to either of those brands (I own one of each), and I face very little actual peril. Nothing against either Olight or Jetbeam - they are nice lights, well made with great features at an extremely fair price. I just don't believe they are as well made as SF or HDS. This is just my opinion, fwiw, but I value high quality items, and the difference in quality between these brands is obvious to me. Now in my case that doesn't matter so much, but in your situation I think it does. There are reasons these lights have a higher price, and they are reasons you care about.
On that unhappy note, since potentially your life could depend on your gear, I'd definitely look towards SF or HDS rather than trying to save a few bucks. I don't think either Olight or JB are in the same league in terms of quality. I wouldn't trust my life to either of those brands (I own one of each), and I face very little actual peril. Nothing against either Olight or Jetbeam - they are nice lights, well made with great features at an extremely fair price. I just don't believe they are as well made as SF or HDS. This is just my opinion, fwiw, but I value high quality items, and the difference in quality between these brands is obvious to me. Now in my case that doesn't matter so much, but in your situation I think it does. There are reasons these lights have a higher price, and they are reasons you care about.
After reading your requirements... I'd consider the SUREFIRE LumaMax L2.
Two light modes..200 Lumens and a lower very capable mode (can't recall at the moment. You can set to constant on either, or set tailpiece for momentary low or push a little harder for that amazing 200 Lumen blast of light.
The light is really quite amazing. You will not have to worry about strobes going off by accident...there is none.
This light is s pocket size light..easy carry.
I use it for home inspections.
PS... Thank you for serving. After using many types of lights... when it comes down to it... I'd only trust a Surefire to work everytime.
Two light modes..200 Lumens and a lower very capable mode (can't recall at the moment. You can set to constant on either, or set tailpiece for momentary low or push a little harder for that amazing 200 Lumen blast of light.
The light is really quite amazing. You will not have to worry about strobes going off by accident...there is none.
This light is s pocket size light..easy carry.
I use it for home inspections.
PS... Thank you for serving. After using many types of lights... when it comes down to it... I'd only trust a Surefire to work everytime.
10.10.2010
Newly Enlightened
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- Oct 10, 2010
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Please note, to get constant on on LX2 you have to twist the tail cap with two hand for fast action. Using one hand also can, but i found it bit tricky and slow compared with two hand action.
See this thread below, this is mini review of E2DL VS LX2 posted by LEO.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254378
See this thread below, this is mini review of E2DL VS LX2 posted by LEO.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254378
Thank you for what you are doing. Even as a civilian contractor employee you are still putting it on the line in ways most of us never will. That being said, while Fenix and 4Sevens and many of the other brands mentioned earlier in this thread are all good brands, where life and limb is concerned I would go with SureFire. It is what I would carry if I were in your situation. They are not 100% reliable but nothing is. A twisty switch can still be used one handed and provides more reliability but is not as quick and easy as a clicky. Plus you do have the lifetime warranty with SureFire. My second choice if I had to carry something else would be a Streamlight. These two brands cater to military, law enforcement, and firefighters. Their lights are designed for them and for those purposes (For the most part).
Again, this is not to disparage any of the other brands. I have lights from both Fenix and 4Sevens for example, but each of them has quirks or design features that I would consider as not acceptable if I were in your position. Although my signature line does njot show it I am heavily involved in local volunteer emergency response so while I do not have your level of experience I do have some background experience which is applicable.
Stay safe!
Again, this is not to disparage any of the other brands. I have lights from both Fenix and 4Sevens for example, but each of them has quirks or design features that I would consider as not acceptable if I were in your position. Although my signature line does njot show it I am heavily involved in local volunteer emergency response so while I do not have your level of experience I do have some background experience which is applicable.
Stay safe!
