Help me Understand Why SureFire are so Expensive

[mossyoak]

the bottom line why surefires are so expensive is because they are made in the USA.

their warranty isnt anything phenomenal
their product isnt anything unheard of

if you only knew how many diehard surefire users have crossed over because of me showing them a fenix product, you would laugh, and then cry. You should have been there at booth 24036. it was amazing. people were honestly awestruck, like hearing the beatles for the first time.

 

[stitch_paradox]

Surefire is "expensive" because it is MADE IN AMERICA. And I'm DAMN proud of it.

And why do I support them even though their are what they are? Because it is MADE IN AMERICA and I live in it.

Ok enough for that patriotic introduction. I just want to say that I appreciate Surefire and other real American companies that kept production here in the land. Especially now the economy is in a tough situation, I'm sure its hard for those companies to keep productions here. Outsourcing is a sure bet on money for most companies, but what suffers in the long run is the economy, thus affecting the people too. I appreciate Surefire because they give jobs to American people, helping to circulate the money here in the country. I know there are other nice, cheap lights form other companies, I actually own some of them. but when you are supporting local products your also supporting yourself in a sense.

Also you should remember Surefire products are used by the government, federal, and local law enforcement agencies, so they should pass high qualification standards. They need to use high quality materials designed by real engineers and made by qualified technicians, now tell me if any other foreign company do that.

 

[Albinoni]

A: They believe in making a good profit on their product. They are in business to make money first and foremost.

B: You are basically paying the extra for the lifetime no questions asked warranty. If your flashlight breaks they will keep replacing it no matter what (from what I understand). So built into the price of every flashlight is at least one replacement, because they want their customers to be happy with a great product and great service for a lifetime. Not a bad philosophy in one respect.

So does this lifetime warranty only apply to the States or International countries as well. I live in Australia and would be interesting to know what their warranty is over here.

 

[stitch_paradox]

It amazes me how much mall ninjas are in these forum. Some buy lights just for the heck of it. No convictions and reservations at all. Some will buy it just because its cheap and its the brightest.

 

[Albinoni]

well it used to be that they were at the bleeding edge of technology. they arent any more.

it used to be because of their unbeatable and unmatched warranty. now there are other companies with the same "unlimited lifetime" warranty.

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies

So would you say there are Chinese/Asian torch light manufacturers out there than can give Surefire a run for their money but at a cheaper cost and just as good and also ones that provide a better tint and better tail clickie ?

And also when you say bad tint quality really doesnt this depend on the LED itself and not the torch.

 

[mossyoak]

Also you should remember Surefire products are used by the government, federal, and local law enforcement agencies, so they should pass high qualification standards. They need to use high quality materials designed by real engineers and made by qualified technicians, now tell me if any other foreign company do that.

Fenix are used by lots of soldiers deployed over seas as well, like my brother for instance.

so what you are saying is that foreign companies dont use "real" engineers? then what do they use? goof balls playing around on microsoft paint? they seem to be doing a damn good job... and they dont have qualified technicians to put the lights together? who is putting them together? kids in sweat shops? well if so they are doing a damn good job to. And what do they make their lights out of? duct tape and coke cans? pretty sure they are made out of some pretty good stuff for all the hell ive put my lights through on SAR, so you lost me there to.

 

[nanotech17]

to me US made product is always big & tough.
the same goes to my Rexaire vacuum cleaner - 1 heaven of a vacuum cleaner.
The same goes to my SF & Novatac

 

[stitch_paradox]

Fenix are used by lots of soldiers deployed over seas as well, like my brother for instance.

so what you are saying is that foreign companies dont use "real" engineers? then what do they use? goof balls playing around on microsoft paint? they seem to be doing a damn good job... and they dont have qualified technicians to put the lights together? who is putting them together? kids in sweat shops? well if so they are doing a damn good job to. And what do they make their lights out of? duct tape and coke cans? pretty sure they are made out of some pretty good stuff for all the hell ive put my lights through on SAR, so you lost me there to.

Yes it is being used, but its not issued. And whats the percentage of your so called users? 5%? I can't find a right word, but I guess goof balls would do. With todays technology it's very easy to design anything with the computer. Heck I can design mine if I want, but that doesn't me an engineer right? Are you 100 percent sure there are no kids working on the factory? I'm sure there are. With a salary of less than $4 a day I think it's pretty safe to say that's it sort of like a sweat shop. And there are many levels of standard of aluminum, Coke cans and airplane body are both aluminum and yet they are not the same. Go ask your flashlight manufacturer what grade of aluminum do they use, then compare it with SF. Then talk to me.

 

[mossyoak]

what do engineers know about flashlights? nothing.
you know who knows something about flashlights? people who have to use them everyday, fenix figured that out a long time ago and started listening to them for inspiration on what type of lights and how they wanted them made. its seems to be working quite well for fenix as they were one VERY popular booth at SHOT.

i dont know what grade aluminium fenix uses but i doubt its tin foil.

 

[fieldops]

I might buy the UB2 later this year, as 400 lumens is just to good to pass up.
:twothumbs:twothumbs

I'm with you. No way am I'm passing that one up

 

[greenstuffs]

Most solders are not your operator that use all these high speed gear and the latest and the greatest, some are just simply cooks or mechanics, not all soldiers use Strider knives or Sebenzas, most of them use gerber or other cheap quality knives and they are not stabbing Al Qaeda terrorist with their knives but open MRE's and cutting Nylon cord Type III, Same way most soldiers don't use Surefire or other high speed Flashlight to shine into Terrorist, they probably just need a flashlight to take a leak at night and stuff like that. Soldiers are normal people just like my neighbour or the guy that lives down the street.

Now Surefire and Fenix claim that they use 6061 aluminum alloy and is very hard to prove it whether this is true or not. So is up to the end user to believe what they want.

We can't claim whether fenix is using low pay child labor aka sweatshops as well people can claim surefire is using low pay mexican workers since fontana is only 45 min away from the Tijuana border. But i'm very sure that most people know the kind of labor surefire and fenix employs.

However we do know who makes the better flashlight maker at the end of the day and this is what counts.

Yes it is being used, but its not issued. And whats the percentage of your so called users? 5%? I can't find a right word, but I guess goof balls would do. With todays technology it's very easy to design anything with the computer. Heck I can design mine if I want, but that doesn't me an engineer right? Are you 100 percent sure there are no kids working on the factory? I'm sure there are. With a salary of less than $4 a day I think it's pretty safe to say that's it sort of like a sweat shop. And there are many levels of standard of aluminum, Coke cans and airplane body are both aluminum and yet they are not the same. Go ask your flashlight manufacturer what grade of aluminum do they use, then compare it with SF. Then talk to me.

 

[mossyoak]

It amazes me how much mall ninjas are in these forum. Some buy lights just for the heck of it. No convictions and reservations at all. Some will buy it just because its cheap and its the brightest.

Did you just call me a Mall Ninja? people that know me on this forum know that im about as far from it as I could be.
I dont buy lights just to buy lights. i buy them for a purpose, SAR, backpacking, caving, and stuff like that.
I dont buy lights because they are cheap and bright, although that does help. as a matter of fact the two lights I have around me the most are both made in the USA, Hawaii actually.
i have convictions and reservations to, the best product for the intended purpose gets my money. and i look at it this way, when i buy a fenix light i know exactly where that money is going. Tucker,GA.

 

[mossyoak]

I'm with you. No way am I'm passing that one up

Amen, to that. i cant wait for that surefire. it'll get my money, and a T1A.

 

[stitch_paradox]

Mossyoak:
Engineers have nothing to do with flashlights? Are you kidding me? Maybe in China they don't, but I'm pretty much sure those that are involve in manufacturing American lights have engineering back grounds.

I did not name anyone when I said the mall ninja phrase, If you perceived it to yourself that it was you then it's not my fault. I'm pretty sure your knowledgeable regarding this kind of things since you stated that you are a SAR.
When you buy any thing, as in any thing, you money always goes to the manufacturer, although it benefits the seller, the bottom of the well is still the manufacturer. And when your manufacturer is in China your money goes to China. And my personal conviction is I try to avoid (although its so hard to avoid) "giving" my money to "someone" who is a threat to where my family is living. And sure they have good products I can't deny that, it's getting better actually, but I would still rather help a fellow man here to have job than someone abroad. Well, that only me.

Greenstuff:
Did I say all and everyone of th soldiers here are using Surefires? I don't remember myself saying that. Some are even using Maglite incans. What I said is Surefire is the Standard General Issue, and not a Fenix.

If you are implying that Surefire is paying low waged undocumented workers then I will strongly disagree. They are in a government contract, so I'm sure they are regularly checked by the feds. So I can proudly say that their workers are being paid by the right wages and given proper benefits, just like a real American company would.

 

[adamlau]

It amazes me how much mall ninjas are in these forum.

I am a 38% Mall Ninja. I did not know what the term meant, so looked it up and took this silly online test. And what kramer5150 said earlier - except that I do not use a DX LA .

 

[mossyoak]

i guarantee you that there are more mag-lites than surefires and fenixes in iraq combined. surefires arent issued, at least my best friend in the army and my brother who is a marine both didnt get one.

 

[stitch_paradox]

i guarantee you that there are more mag-lites than surefires and fenixes in iraq combined. surefires arent issued, at least my best friend in the army and my brother who is a marine both didnt get one.

If you ask for a flashlight they'll give you one. Cost cutting I guess.

By the way I have to admit, sometimes... I'm a mall ninja too, all of us are. :twothumbs

 

[mossyoak]

Im 36 percent mall ninja, it must be my love for H&K.

 

[Monocrom]

How amazing.... Another Surefire vs. Fenix thread that degraded horribly.

Time for me to stand in the middle of the road, and get run over....

Call me crazy, I like both brands for very different reasons. Both have Pros and Cons. It's like fighting over two good-looking women who are HOT, but for different reasons. You guys fight, meanwhile; I'll be taking both of the ladies out for drinks.

 

[mossyoak]

How amazing.... Another Surefire vs. Fenix thread that degraded horribly.

Time for me to stand in the middle of the road, and get run over....

Call me crazy, I like both brands for very different reasons. Both have Pros and Cons. It's like fighting over two good-looking women who are HOT, but for different reasons. You guys fight, meanwhile; I'll be taking both of the ladies out for drinks.

i like both brands as well for different reasons. surefires incandescents are simply the best ever made. and ive never cried (much) over a lost fenix.