I was almost swarm attack by teenagers tonight !!

[nethiker]

Glad to hear you're o.k.

I'd be careful with the stake-out. That could be considered an escalation by you and they could consider it necessary to do you one better, which doesn't sound like it would be good.

Looks like you did just what you should have. You could still be at an elevated risk depending on the motivation of these pukes. If pepper spray is not an option, you might consider an air horn. Make enough noise and kids won't want to stay around long enough to do serious harm. Remember that anything you have could end up being used against you, especially when you're outnumbered 3 to 1.

Stay safe.

 

[chevrofreak]

Where was your handgun?

Oh...wait...I guess you don't live in Texas, eh?

JM-99

Texas isnt as carry friendly as quite a few other states.

 

[Jumpmaster]

Maybe not, but I have a CHL.

And it's a hell of a lot more gun-friendly than Canada, where Picard is.

JM-99

 

[chesterqw]

wat? a gladius only? you need a mag 6D mod with led or HOTwire.

 

[gregw]

The way I see it, unless you know how to use whatever weapon you are carrying, you are simply providing your assailant(s) with a weapon to use upon you once he/they have managed to get it out of your hands.. So, I would seriously suggest that before you "carry" anything for self defense, you should train yourself with it until you are proficient.

That said, I would highly recommend a Hideaway Knife, as it is probably the most difficult knife for anyone to try to get away from you due to the way that you are holding it. It is also easily carried, very unobtrusive, and quickly accessible when needed. Due to the fact that it is a short fixed blade knife, it should be legal almost anywhere.

 

[zespectre]

I know emotions run high in a situation like this so I'm going to try and stick with simple facts.

The first and most important thing to do is be aware of your surroundings. That means no jawin' on the cell phone, no iPod with headphones jammed in your ears. It means looking out the window at the train platform before you exit. It means glancing into an elevator -before- you step in. (and on and on).

Next is to try and leave yourself an "exit" or two. It takes some time and effort to get to the point where you asses situations automatically but it is worth the effort.

If you decide to carry any sort of defensive/offensive measure you should find a way to practice with it at least some. The worst time to understand blowback with pepperspray is when you've just incapacitated yourself and the slime is closing in.

Before you even consider any sort of lethal-force option you MUST honestly answer this one question... Could I actually kill someone and live with that afterwards? If the answer is no then don't even go down that road...find a non-lethal alternative. If the answer is yes then make sure you practice, practice, practice with your weapon otherwise you are more of a danger to yourself than to the bad guys.

Picard, for your specific situation I'm really glad you are okay and believe me I know how angry and violated an incident like that can make you. If you do plan a "stake out" type situation just make sure you aren't putting yourself back into danger again. Another excellent "get away" item is a simple bag of marbles. You might feel silly with them but the heavy bag makes a great kosh or you can dump them on the floor behind you to slow up the pursuit.

 

[2dim]

Glad to hear you're o.k.

I'd be careful with the stake-out. That could be considered an escalation by you and they could consider it necessary to do you one better, which doesn't sound like it would be good.

Looks like you did just what you should have. You could still be at an elevated risk depending on the motivation of these pukes. If pepper spray is not an option, you might consider an air horn. Make enough noise and kids won't want to stay around long enough to do serious harm. Remember that anything you have could end up being used against you, especially when you're outnumbered 3 to 1.

Stay safe.

Good points...you don't want it to become 'personal', because the little *******s will make your life intolerable and moving would become the only alternative, if they live nearby. I sympathize with the situation you're in...I live in government housing, so face a somewhat similar situation, never knowing when my car will be vandalized again. Unfortunately, police are often no help whatever against such punks. not even offering reasonable advice.

Seeking community support by speaking/campaigning to neighbors is one thing that should be done. Also talk to local politicians, perhaps news media as well. A least you may find out you aren't alone, though often most prefer to ignore such difficult problems, particularly the parents of those kind of kids.
Standing up for yourself always makes for a higher profile target. Such is life, I'm sorry to say...

So think carefully, just in case direct confrontration becomes necessary, especially if it's physical and/or might involve 'weapons'. Be ready to face the consequences legally. Have a lawyer to call and expect that police may well search your home, attempting to make you the criminal. Hearing of these incidents makes me more than ever want to relocate to the USA...still the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave", far as I'm concerned!

 

[2dim]

Before you even consider any sort of lethal-force option you MUST honestly answer this one question... Could I actually kill someone and live with that afterwards? If the answer is no then don't even go down that road...find a non-lethal alternative. If the answer is yes then make sure you practice, practice, practice with your weapon otherwise you are more of a danger to yourself than to the bad guys.

Absolutely true!!! Avoidance is usually best unfortunately, humiliating and disturbing as it feels...there are far worse consequences than emotional pain to consider.

 

[leukos]

There are as many theories of self defense as there are posters.

Here's what I think. Do whatever will get you out of a situation with the least harm to you.

A knife, plier, screwdriver require you to close with the attacker. Unless you are well trained and have the appropriate mindset, which is very rare in a non-professional (practiced and experienced LEO, soldier, etc), you will most certainly be hurt.

A combat stick (not a specific kind of stick, but a cane, umbrella, hiking staff used as a weapon), professional quality pepper spray (with which you've trained and practiced), or taser will allow you to react from a distance and escape.

A firearm is the ultimate protection. BUT you must have the will and ability to use it. If you do not, you're far better off without it. If you do use a firearm, you will most likely be prosecuted no matter the circumstances and will most certainly be sued in civil court. Your life will change - socially, emotionally, financially. It may change a little or a lot. But it will change. (But you will also be alive to experience the change.)

Living in Canada, your options are extremely limited. As I understand your laws, any object used in your defense is then considered a weapon. Obviously a firearm or pepper spray is out (but can't you carry pepper spray if it's labeled for "Bear Protection"?)

This may sound strange coming from a native Texan whose nickname fits - but the best thing to do is avoid a confrontation or flee if possible. The one with the least damage is the ultimate winner.

I think BIGIRON made a lot of wise points here about urban survival. I would forget all the notions of carrying a knife or a gun for self-defense, too easy to end up with a felony.

 

[RebelRAM]

The best thing you can do is not be a target in the first place. Situational awareness counts above all else. Watch what is going on around you. Walk with "purpose" and watch everything and everybody. Thugs and punks do not pick people such as this as targets, too much of a challenge for them. They always want the easy, unaware targets. The best weapon you can use is your brain.

As to what happened to kids of today. Not sure. It definitely wasn't happening 12 years ago when I was in high school. And we played violent video games then too. The only good explanation I can come up with is lack of good parenting with most of these kids.

 

[jhereg]

I think BIGIRON made a lot of wise points here about urban survival. I would forget all the notions of carrying a knife or a gun for self-defense, too easy to end up with a felony.

That really depends on where you are. I virtually always carry a knife on me. I carry a gun whenever I can legally do it, and keep one nearby when I can't carry. I understand when I can & cannot use deadly force. I'll take my chances with 12 rather than 6 if necessary. It's generally rather easy to avoid a felony if you are careful
1) Don't start fights.
2) Always try avoid a fight if someone else is trying to start one.
3) If possible make noise which indicates you are not a willing participant in the fight. Call for help, tell people to call 911, etc.
4) Don't pull a weapon to intimidate someone. Only pull a weapon because you have a reason which you can clearly articulate that fulfills the allowed use of deadly force in your area.
5) Don't try to tamper with the scene if you do have to use deadly force.
6) Always be the first one to call the police.
7) You may be better off to tell the officers on the scene you are too shaken to give a statement at the time a self defense scenario occurs. Talk to your lawyer before making any major statements. (This is a general statement & will vary according to situation & jurisdiction.)


(I am not a lawyer. This is the advice I have seen & I feel it is generally accurate. If you disagree with me, I wouldn't mind a friendly discussion.)

 

[chevrofreak]

I think BIGIRON made a lot of wise points here about urban survival. I would forget all the notions of carrying a knife or a gun for self-defense, too easy to end up with a felony.

Being from the UK where self defense is pretty much illegal, I can understand why you'd say that.

Luckily here in the US self defense with a weapon (typically a gun) is mostly legal, and is a very common thing, happening upwards of 2 million times per year.

 

[Canuke]

As to what happened to kids of today. Not sure. It definitely wasn't happening 12 years ago when I was in high school. And we played violent video games then too. The only good explanation I can come up with is lack of good parenting with most of these kids.

I wonder what school you went to.... when I was in school 25 years ago, thuggish behaviour was quite common. They just follow through further now. About all I'd say has changed is that in places outside the US, it has continued to get worse thanks to legal attacks against the right of self-defense.

It is because of that experience in high school that I retain a healthy distrust (if not disGust) of teenagers to this day. (Not that I don't believe there aren't perfectly respectable teen-aged individuals around... but the raw numbers dictate a guilty-until-proven-innocent attitude.) Thankfully they tend to announce themselves loudly with their peculiar brand of goofy stupidity -- and are only troublesome in groups.

Regarding self-defense laws, this sort of BS is one of the reasons I emigrated to the US from Canada. Contrary to an earlier poster, you can get guns in Canada; there may be certain categories of weapons that civilian Canadians can obtain that Americans can't (40mm grenades come to mind, but I heard that years ago from a Canadian poster named "Westicle" on GlockTalk and have no idea as to its veracity now). It's when you try to use *anything* in self-defense that you get screwed. Use a baseball bat on a home invader, and now suddenly you need to document that you were just at/were about to attend a softball game, with teammate affidavits etc. and that's why it happened to be handy when you clocked the *******.

Of course, California isn't that much of a step up for self-defense ... but I plan to be out of here in the long run. I have to change professions first; currently I work in visual FX, and the bulk of that work is in the TV/film industry here.

 

[chevrofreak]

I wonder what school you went to.... when I was in school 25 years ago, thuggish behaviour was quite common. They just follow through further now. About all I'd say has changed is that in places outside the US, it has continued to get worse thanks to legal attacks against the right of self-defense.

It is because of that experience in high school that I retain a healthy distrust (if not disGust) of teenagers to this day. (Not that I don't believe there aren't perfectly respectable teen-aged individuals around... but the raw numbers dictate a guilty-until-proven-innocent attitude.) Thankfully they tend to announce themselves loudly with their peculiar brand of goofy stupidity -- and are only troublesome in groups.

Regarding self-defense laws, this sort of BS is one of the reasons I emigrated to the US from Canada. Contrary to an earlier poster, you can get guns in Canada; there may be certain categories of weapons that civilian Canadians can obtain that Americans can't (40mm grenades come to mind, but I heard that years ago from a Canadian poster named "Westicle" on GlockTalk and have no idea as to its veracity now). It's when you try to use *anything* in self-defense that you get screwed. Use a baseball bat on a home invader, and now suddenly you need to document that you were just at/were about to attend a softball game, with teammate affidavits etc. and that's why it happened to be handy when you clocked the *******.

Of course, California isn't that much of a step up for self-defense ... but I plan to be out of here in the long run. I have to change professions first; currently I work in visual FX, and the bulk of that work is in the TV/film industry here.

Westicle has one hell of a collection

 

[matrixshaman]

Here's something that might be worth printing out some copies of and posting around the neighborhood. Teens get prison for beating a homeless man and that included a 35 YEAR prison sentence for a 15 year old!
CNN link here

 

[2dim]

Here's something that might be worth printing out some copies of and posting around the neighborhood. Teens get prison for beating a homeless man and that included a 35 YEAR prison sentence for a 15 year old!
CNN link here

Obviously not in Canada, eh? Anyone heard about the Karla Homolka fiasco?