Incan bulb for ~14V/5.5A?

[2xTrinity]

I've been looking for a bulb that will run optimally at ~14V/5.5A. I've been trying to do something interesting in a 4C host for a long time but there's a big vacuum for good bulb options off of 4 AW C-Cells, or 3x Emoli (1185 is the only one I know of for 3 LiIon). I want something that will produce ~2500 lumens for around 25 minutes in that host. As it is I can get ~1200 lumens fore 25 lumens in a 2c...

 

[Raoul_Duke]

Re: What is missing?

I've been looking for a bulb that will run optimally at ~14V/5.5A. I've been trying to do something interesting in a 4C host for a long time but there's a big vacuum for good bulb options off of 4 AW C-Cells, or 3x Emoli (1185 is the only one I know of for 3 LiIon). I want something that will produce ~2500 lumens for around 25 minutes in that host. As it is I can get ~1200 lumens fore 25 lumens in a 2c...

Use Osram 64610 50W...... but I would use 62138 or 64625 on 3 emoli as the cells are wasted on low watt lamps...they can cope with seriously high current so why not use it, and use a AW C switch for when you want it dimmer/ longer running. ( it will also help put 3 emoli in 4C as its shorter than stock switch)

 

[litho123]

An interesting bulb is this one here...
http://www.cml-it.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0011537.1.341053489386769496

At spec, it is rated at 1194 bulb-lumens
Regulated, along with 5 AW cells, you can crank it up into the 15.6 - 15.8 volt range and really crank up the lumens. Do the math.

I have one in a 4D sized light with an AW HotDriver and it's a great light if you like BIG hotspots with plenty of sidespill. The 3" head also helps the beam pattern!

Review the spec sheet carefully before contacting me (if you're interested) to purchase a bulb or two. You won't find these bulbs anywhere. :naughty:

 

[2xTrinity]

Re: What is missing?

Use Osram 64610 50W.....

That actually looks pretty good, a bulb that is basically overdriven at 12V (50hrs life/3400k) The AW cells sag pretty heavily under 5.5A load, so they should be safe from flashing it. I think I will try it. Overdriven it should be pulling around 75-80 watts, which is exactly what I was looking for for 4xAW.

but I would use 62138 or 64625 on 3 emoli

I'm aware that 3xEmoli will sag significantly less than AW C-Cells, but with only 3 cells, loaded voltage will certainly be under 12V, or significantly underdriven. I like my multilevel lights to be very bright and white on the top level so that efficiency and color is still reasonably good at the lower levels. For example, my 2D 5761 (w/ Kaidomain D-Cells) is higher color temp than my 3500k room light. Color temp on medium is like a vehicle haogen lamp, and low is like a standard household incan, not excessively yellow.

An interesting bulb is this one here...
http://www.cml-it.com/cgi-bin/htmlos...53489386769496

At spec, it is rated at 1194 bulb-lumens
Regulated, along with 5 AW cells, you can crank it up into the 15.6 - 15.8 volt range and really crank up the lumens. Do the math.

I have one in a 4D sized light with an AW HotDriver and it's a great light if you like BIG hotspots with plenty of sidespill. The 3" head also helps the beam pattern!

14V is pretty unusual. I wonder if it's actually just a long life 12V lamp originally that has been re-rated to a shorter life expectancy at 14V, similar to how 130V incans are often sold, which is essentially just a means of producing a longer life 120V incan.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

Re: What is missing?

That actually looks pretty good, a bulb that is basically overdriven at 12V (50hrs life/3400k) The AW cells sag pretty heavily under 5.5A load, so they should be safe from flashing it. I think I will try it. Overdriven it should be pulling around 75-80 watts, which is exactly what I was looking for for 4xAW.


I'm aware that 3xEmoli will sag significantly less than AW C-Cells, but with only 3 cells, loaded voltage will certainly be under 12V, or significantly underdriven. I like my multilevel lights to be very bright and white on the top level so that efficiency and color is still reasonably good at the lower levels. For example, my 2D 5761 (w/ Kaidomain D-Cells) is higher color temp than my 3500k room light. Color temp on medium is like a vehicle haogen lamp, and low is like a standard household incan, not excessively yellow.

Dunno about white. I remember this sales thread from a while back when we were starting out playing with emoli, and this stuck in my head as a nice short mod... well short compared to 7 emoli 26700 in an extended 6D...but thats another story)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179620

Still i usually run with 4 or 5 emoli on the 100W lamps

I will give this a whirl in a few days when I have the time, and make one of these as I have enough spares, and see how it compares to my 6C 64623, and others.

Not 100% sure this will fit in a 4C though without shrinking the stock switch a little, an maybee shorten the tailcap threads a bit

 

[lctorana]

Re: What is missing?

14V is pretty unusual. I wonder if it's actually just a long life 12V lamp originally that has been re-rated...

Not necessarily.

12.6, 12.8, 13 & 14V lamps are often intended for automotive use when the generator is running.

 

[fivemega]

How about this one?

 

[2xTrinity]

Update: I recently got in a shipment of Osram 64610 lamps. Looks like a winner.

I just tested one out in a 4C with some "EL Cheapo" unprotected LiIon C's. I won't be using that as a permanent build for obvious reasons but I wanted to see what the light was like. The bulb saw 5A current draw and was VERY white -- producing roughly double the output of a philips 5761 (makes sense, as I'm feeding it double the power...)

I now have 4 AW C-Cells, and a AW MagC 3-level driver on the way. The combination of a FM wide stainless-steel tailcap, and the shorter AW switch will provide the necessary extra room for the longer cells. The heavy tailcap makes the light able to tail stand, and makes it more effective for

By the time I'm finished this will be by far the most expensive light I own at $220. From what I saw today, it will be worth it. I'll update my Incan beamshot thread once the final build is complete

 

[Inliner]

Trinity - I'm planning on using a GE 347118 bulb in my 4C with 3 A123 cells. ~ 2500 ish lumens and cheaper than the AW cells. Shouldn't have a problem with the current draw. Run time? Who knows...

 

[2xTrinity]

Trinity - I'm planning on using a GE 347118 bulb in my 4C with 3 A123 cells. ~ 2500 ish lumens and cheaper than the AW cells. Shouldn't have a problem with the current draw. Run time? Who knows...

I was considering something like this, but still decided on the AWs for the sake of interchangeability with other lights of mine and runtime, despite the higher cost. Ie, if I want to take one of my 2C lights on a trip, I can bring two extra sets of spares and leave my 4C light at home.

As for runtime issue:

3.3Ah * 14.8V = 49Wh as opposed to
2.3Ah * 9.6V = 22Wh

So runtime I'd expect to be about half, given the same amount of output. The advantage of the A123 is if you want to go to much more more output, beyond what standard lithium ions would be able to do.

IMO the emoli cells make a lot more sense at this point in time than A123s, as they're also capable of dispensing huge amounts of current, safe chemistry, and higher energy density than A123:

2.7 * 11.1 = 30Wh

But then one runs into the problem of lack of availability for non-1185 lamps that can run comfortably at that voltage.

I know in reality the difference between AWs and A123/Emoli will be slightly less than what the values above suggest when the AWs are pushed to the limit due to their higher internal resistance, but at the lower levels (provided by the AW switch) the longer runtime of the AW cells will really manifest. It is on these reduce levels where runtime would matter -- as if I'm going to leave a hotwire on for an extended period of time, say as a "cordless shoplight" I'm likely to do it at a reduced output for the sake of managing the heat more than anything.

 

[DM51]

Update: I recently got in a shipment of Osram 64610 lamps. Looks like a winner.

I just tested one out in a 4C with some "EL Cheapo" unprotected LiIon C's. I won't be using that as a permanent build for obvious reasons but I wanted to see what the light was like. The bulb saw 5A current draw and was VERY white -- producing roughly double the output of a philips 5761 (makes sense, as I'm feeding it double the power...)

This sounds very interesting - it's one I haven't tried. Can you tell me how big it is, i.e. the max width of the glass envelope, so what size reflector hole it would need?

 

[litho123]

Osram 64610

T-3.5 = 3.5 / 8 = 0.4375" diameter
12 volt
50 watt (or 4.16667 amps @ spec)
Bulb-lumens: 1600
Avg Bulb life: 50

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/130/oc/64610 HLX/item.html

 

[2xTrinity]

Due to the combination of the following factors:

1) New AW cells are lower internal resistance than the brand X unprotected cells
2) AW Switch is much lower resistance than stock mag switch

My light when fully charged causes the 64610 to instaflash.

Looks like there is a 64611 available which is 100hrs life as opposed to 50. That means it should be able to have more "headroom" to survive the first couple minutes of runtime on fully charged cells without flashing. I actually did a search for 64611 on the forums and found that people were using it in low-resistance builds with 12 NiMH cells before, and 64610 with 11NiMH and one spacer.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

I got a bunch of 50W generic lamps from macro that I used to use to take hot pack voltages down for my 64623 setup. They can take a 19.3V hot pack, but with all the resistance I cant say for certain, but they will have been seeing 16.8V as I remember measuring that at least from VBulb.

From memory though I think they were pulling more than 5A....especially on the 5 fully charged emoli cells I had it running on a while back.

Unfortunatley there isnt a great deal of detail on them...just 6.35 pin spacing ans 50W.

Sorry about suggestion of the 64610, I thought with the amount of resistance you would get 200- 300 mohms it would take it.