LAPD's new flashlight

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byron8

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Ya, I agree and that's politics at it's max. Local company, lowest bidder, cheapest price, maybe minority owned. I have one Pelican underwater diving light left, the other 3 Pelican lights broke in a short amount of time. The light was designed before they even heard of Cree, Seoul, etc. Don't need beam shot tests for this political procurement junk. Find out how they keep water and moisture out of the slide switch also. Notice on their website under the technical spec. for the 7060 they don't tell you what kind of LED they use http://pelican7060.com/specs.html The Pelican folks were also the only one's available that had time to make a light. The rest were too busy supplying the military with their much more reliable lights and didn't need LAPD business.

dano said:
I think the main Spec point that LAPD wanted, based upon field eval/interviews was the dual switch.

Most major cities have ordinances and rules that have been passed by their respective city/county councils which outline who the municipality can buy from. For example, some cities will give preference to minority owned businesses, where the business is located, what type of benefits the company offers, etc. Los Angeles has many of these types of rules, and I bet quite a few light companies didn't qualify.

Irregardless, I'm looking forward to trying one out.

--dan
 

Size15's

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byron8 said:
The Pelican folks were also the only one's available that had time to make a light.
I'm not sure that is accurate for all the other manufacturers.
Perhaps other companies decided that the LAPD specs/desires/attitude towards a dutylight were not consistant with their own.
Certainly you can see that MagLite don't appear to be bothered about going polymer or even entering the standard dutylight size market (Stinger, 8NX etc) - two important features.
Streamlight would appear to be best placed to have a flashlight made to LAPD's specs since their Stingers are almost there as it is.

Just like with Insight Technology's Visible Light Illuminator (VLI) which became part of the SOPMOD Block-I kit, the selection of the Pelican 7060 as LAPD's dutylight could be under similar circumstances. The reality of the VLI was that it was junk and that Operators used SureFire's M95 & M96 WeaponLights instead and SureFires were selected for the next SOPMOD kit.

We have yet to see what the reality of the Pelican 7060 is.
One outcome that could be possible is that since there are existing lights that fit the LAPD specs then Officers will continue to purchase and use their own and in the future the Pelican 7060 will be replaced.
Another outcome is that other companies see the success of the Pelican 7060 and make their own products to compete with it.

The important thing about dutylights is durability and robustness. Officers have better things to concern themselves with than their flashlight. It needs to be able to handle a hard life of constant carry and use.

I suggest the best reviews of the Pelican 7060 will come after they have been issued for 6 months. Officers will have plenty of time to compare them to their existing Streamlight [PolyStingers] and SureFires [8NX's] to see how they stack up.

Al
 

dano

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I'm not sure what to make out of the overly negative discussion of a light no one has seen, except Mcgizmo.

There's been a few comments as to why they did not "consult" with CPF. Reading this thread, I'd be afraid to ask anything.

I'm very close to just closing this thread, and let it float away. The tone of this thread places CPF in a negative light (no pun intended).

-dan
 

pilou

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Size15's said:
I suggest the best reviews of the Pelican 7060 will come after they have been issued for 6 months. Officers will have plenty of time to compare them to their existing Streamlight [PolyStingers] and SureFires [8NX's] to see how they stack up.l


The L.A. Times article someone linked to claims it has been field tested quite a bit and refined based on officer suggestions. But as we all know, once the entire force starts using it, things may look different.
 

pilou

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dano said:
I'm not sure what to make out of the overly negative discussion of a light no one has seen, except Mcgizmo.


I may be reading things wrong here, but my feeling is that, more than the light, it is the requirements laid out by the LAPD and the how the whole thing was run that have been criticized. The presmise that a plastic/polymer light cannot inflict serious damage seems wrong to me. So why insist on a plastic body that can be almost as hard as a metal body?

I think the most direct complaint about the light was the tint on the video frame, and some pointed out wisely that we shouldn't make to much out of those.
 

SQ40

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All it needs is a Flashcap and a Low-High Selector Switch and it would be golden.
 

McGizmo

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[OT] Well I'm pissed! I have a composed post that took about an hour to make and it is hung in a IE not responding window. I switched to IE because of problems I have been having with Netscape browser and CPF. At least in Netscape, I could go in and copy my text to the clipboard if the preview post didn't want to go through. I can't scroll or do any copy with the not responding window. Yeah, I know, my bad for not composing in some other software.
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[/OT]

I don't pretend to know the politics, rules and laws that shape the landscape for LAPD. I have no idea how well suited the 7060 is for its intended use.

As an ignorant though, I too have opinions. The light itself is what it is and until we know what it is, we are premature in drawing conclusions on its fit and function for any application. In this thread the light has been claimed to be obsolete as well as state of the art. There seems to be some contridiction there?!?

To my knowledge, the LAPD is tasked to serve and protect as are other police departments. The department as well as its members are accountable for their activities and actions. They are given rules and laws to obey as well as enforce. They are given tools and training to aid them in their duties. A flashlight is one such tool and one of interest to us. Obviously a flashlight, first and foremost is an illumination tool. It would seem that dependability as well as ability to serve its primary role would be paramount. Beyond its primary role, one would assume versatility and viability as a tool capable of secondary functions would also be advantageous. It would seem but then perhaps not. Herein seems to be the rub. Flashlights have been successfully used as weapons and physical deterrants in the past but such a role is now frowned upon. Seems stupid to me. A flashlight with variable output levels and perhaps a strobe also seems more versatile and especially if these various modes were user accessable and easy to impliment. But if the defense could suggest the wrong mode were used then it's best there be only one mode available.
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I place the foolishness in rules and laws that cater to a litigious society and are self fulfiling and perpetuated by those who stand to gain; not necessarily those serving and protecting or those served or protected.
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A skilled person can use a tool for many functions beyond its primary use and design. I want a skilled person serving and protecting me. Duh! If task completion and work require tools then the better the tools and the better equipped and trained the person doing the task, the better the task is performed. Is this not true?!?! If there are restrictions placed on the tools or the tools are intentionally designed with lack of versatilty in mind then what impact does this have on the task at hand?

A ball point pen is a viable weapon in than hands of one properly trained. It is also a viable life saver (trachiotomy [sp]) in the hands of one properly trained. If I were in a position to be saved by a ball point pen in the hands of one so trained, I would be really bummed if not dead if the ball pont pen were not used because of some rule stating a ball point pen was restricted to use for filling out reports and to be used for nothing else! There are laws that protect us and yet there are lawsuits that insure our demise in many cases. I think it boils down to money and who is the beneficiary? There used to be a saying: "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!" Well I suggest a contemporary saying could be: "Damn the lawyers, do what needs to be done!"

I said I would do a simple review on the 7060 and I will do what I said. It is clear for many vocal in this thread that I will be wasting my time and certainly this is something to consider.
 

Size15's

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dano said:
I'm not sure what to make out of the overly negative discussion of a light no one has seen, except Mcgizmo.

There's been a few comments as to why they did not "consult" with CPF. Reading this thread, I'd be afraid to ask anything.

I'm very close to just closing this thread, and let it float away. The tone of this thread places CPF in a negative light (no pun intended).

-dan
Dano,
You're right - this thread is exactly why companies such as Pelican, Streamlight, SureFire, Princeton Tec, Inova, Photon, MagLite etc etc etc don't overtly ask CPF members for advice or feedback.
It is very sad for CPF but it's a bed long made by members and they seem very happy to sleep in it. It's almost as if they enjoy being disappointed or something.

CPF members are their own worst enemies. Nobody but themselves is stopping the various flashlight companies from being part of the CPF community.

Al :(
 

Kiessling

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Dito to dano and Al.
I always chuckle when I read comments about the wisdom of CPF and how wise it would be for a manufacturer to "consult" with us. Like hell.
bernie
 

revolvergeek

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Bonez said:
It kind of looks like the head off of an inova radiant series light.......

I was just thinking the same thing. Why not just buy everbody Inova 2C Radiants and be done with it?? :touche: I guess that's what you have to end up with if you want some cooling fins in an anti-roll design. The two switch setup is interesting. I am curious how reliable it will be long term. Pelican lights are normally pretty tough lights (I have used a couple incandescents for better part of 10 years on the original bulb!), but MSRP of $199.95 seems kinda high to me. I wonder what street price will work out to be?
 
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Art Vandelay

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I think we should just ignore the political stuff.

I found this interesting. After WWII some police learned how to use the Yahawa stick, from classes and the book How to Use the Yawara Stick for Police by Prof. F. A. Matsuyama. A Yahawa is a short plastic or wood rod used to hit nerve and pressure points.
Check this link out for a classic Yahawa picture. What the Officers are holding in their hands look like the new LAPD flashlights, but they are Yahawa sticks. Ashley Judd used one in the movie Twisted. http://www.plumpub.com/info/Fun/yawara.htm , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yawara

In the 1970's the Yahawa stick was shorted into the Kuboton by Grandmaster Takayuki Kubota, who taught the LAPD how to use it. You may have seen these on keychains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
 

McGizmo

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Hi guys,

As promised, I posted a preview of the LAPD light in the review forum, HERE. Since I have a beta version and not a production sample, nothing should be carved in stone.
 

vhyper007

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.....
as one who suggested consulting CPF I feel a clarification is in order esp regarding the last several posts.

Obviously, there are people in here whose opinion is worth less than zero. I own up to being one of those from an electrical point of view but not from a usage standpoint. On the other hand there are some people who regularly contribute, editorially and product wise, and most of the more mature(profession and age wise) know who they are. These are the FEW whom I was suggesting when I suggested consulting CPF at all.

Having read some of the near hysterical rants on this light from God knows whom and with little or no information of that which they speak, I really see why the latter posters said CPF is its own worst enemy.

Out of appreciation for what is good here when did it become this way?

Curiously,
vhyper
 

SaratogaWay

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Pelicans guarantee has been (for 30 years) and continues to be 'Unconditional Lifetime Guarantee'. Sounds like to me 'byron8' that you bought something other than a Pelican.
 

byron8

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It was many years ago. All I know my plastic Pelican lights broke and cracked. Others had the same problem as me. I have been buying Pelican since the 1970's. I don't care about warranty. When I twist the head of the light, the body breaks because of too much pressure on the plastic. Maybe now the quality is better but when I need a diving light it better be reliable.
 

dano

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I'm closing this thread.

The TECHNICAL discussion about this light can be followed in McGizmo's review thread, posted above.
 
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