Lumapower Avenger - a mixed bag

MikeLip

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I'm not posting pics. First, because I don't have a hosting service and I don't want to mess with them. Second because I can't do better than ernsanada!

At any rate, I got mine the other day and have been playing with it. Right off the bat, I will tell you I have not yet used the clickie so I don't know how well it works. I prefer twistie in this form factor. This is a compact light, and anything that makes it longer is a no-no for me. Besides, it works well enough as a twistie. When it works.

When I took it out of the package I was impressed by the light. Very nice workmanship, fit and finish. It's pretty! :) Hmmm, where are the instructions? There aren't any! Does the battery go in positive first or the other way? No clue.

In the box is a small bag with a couple sticks to try with the clickie to get the light to work with various cells. In the bag is a slip of paper with a line of information in poor English. On that slip is the URL of a website with some documentation. Typing in the url as shown does not work. Big help there.

I tried it first with 10440s, and the light didn't work with the battery in either direction. I thought; Oh, crap. I put the battery in wrong way round first time and blew the light up.

But I had a pile of alkalines lying there, so I installed one positive tip in first. Hey! It works! A nice low low and a decent high. Very nice beam. So, it's still alive.

I posted this over on the dealers forum when the Avenger thread is going. I got some advice on the 10440s (they are Ultrafires). Matt from battery Junction advised me to remove the foam ring from the head, so that the battery could activate the switch better. That didn't work. Then he asked me to go to their web site and order the replacement "stick" which will make up for the shorter 10440s along with a thinner foam pad - both free. This I did and we'll see how that works out.

The good; Nice workmanship. Everything is smooth and well finished. Good beam profile. Works nicely as a twistie. I guess I'll have to install the clickie out of curiosity.

The bad; Does not work with 10440s out of the box. Based on what I'm seeing here, you cannot get the best out of this light WITHOUT 10440s. This is disappointing, because the Tiablo A1 puts out, on alkalines, what this light puts out on 10440s. I am unhappy about using unprotected cells too, but there is no alternative.

The conclusions I came to are;

1) that this light has potential, but does not live up to the hype generated in the sales thread. I'm 51, I should have known better. My fault for being sucked in.
2) It's basically still in Beta.
3) It underperforms compared to it's competition.
4) It is overpriced for what it is.
5) It needs freaking INSTRUCTIONS. Not a link to a website that doesn't work.

I suggest that, if you want one, you wait until all the problems have been pounded out of it.
 
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Thujone

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This I did and we'll see how that works out.

The contact sticks are for the clicky, if your 10440 is significantly shorter than your alki perhaps a bit of alu foil in the bottom of the tube will do the trick.
 

half-watt

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i used Ultrafire 10440 cells in the Avenger (in the as shipped twisty mode).

worked fine. no contact problems with factory foam ring installed.
 

MikeLip

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The contact sticks are for the clicky, if your 10440 is significantly shorter than your alki perhaps a bit of alu foil in the bottom of the tube will do the trick.

No, Matt specifically told me to try the new stick he is sending me with the twistie to make it work with 10440s.

Putting a piece of tin foil in my $55 light make it freaking work is totally unacceptable.

Am I the ONLY one who feels that way? I am not attacking you, Thujone - I know you are trying to help me out. But I've read about that tinfoil trick in the Avenger thread on the sales forum and it makes my blood boil. It's just lame to have to do that. This light is not a $10 DX cheapie, it's freaking expensive for a AAA light! Tinfoil is just a bandaid on a light that should work.

I can accept it as maybe an interim solution, but Lumapower has to fix this and fix it right.

*sigh*. OK, I'm back now. Can you tell I am less than happy with this light? :) If it had been cheap, I would just toss it and chalk it up. And while I'm not going to have to move into a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere over $55, it's money I could have spent on a Surefire or something.
 

MarNav1

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I had a similar experience with a different branded light, it was a mixed bag too. Very disappointed!
 

half-watt

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MikeLip said:
Then you got lucky

perhaps i did. i only mentioned it so that, if you had Ultrafire 10440's, that might be useful info, but perhaps not.



No, Matt specifically told me to try the new stick he is sending me with the twistie to make it work with 10440s.


MattK, must be sending you somethings special. the "normal" two xtra sticks are NOT threaded and are simply varying length longer sticks that can be pressed fit into the black plastic retainer which then gets screwed into the clicky tailcap.

the clickie/clicky (sp???) sticks/pegs extend through the larger diameter threaded opening at the tail end of the Avenger's barrel/body/batt-tube.

MattK must be sending you a very spcl. longer peg with threaded base specifically for use with the twisty. as you are probably already aware, the twisty peg is removed fr/the light's barrel in order to use the clicky tailcap.

seems like there are many "special" parts to make this light function right. as an engineer, i'd have to say that is not generally the sign of a good, robust design.

i'd have to agree with your previous assessment that this light is really still in the prototype stage.

my particular Avenger's clicky simply won't work - some very strange symptoms which might be attributable to the factory foam washer which prevents the cells from rattling around in tube when the twisty light is turned off. that foam washer, of sorts, might be too deep.

a simple test i could do (and might do if i want to try the clicky again) is to place a small magnet i purchased from John at Lighthound.com on the positive terminal of the 10440 cell. i have enough of those magnets that i should be able to build up the length of the cell at the postive terminal with enough magnets to make the cell make contact - if indeed that factory foam washer is too deep to permit contact as the head is twisted/screwed down to actuate the light (the clicky would have already been installed and its switch verified as in the closed position with an Ohmmeter, meaning that the light would be essentially functioning as a twisty with the clicky tailcap installed).

in my other experience's w/LP lights (i have a bunch of them), i've had no problems. it's a shame that, IME (in my experience), LP would now release something that exhibits such uncharacteristic poor quality in that it has so many out-of-the-box problems.

othewise, when used as a twisty, mine is a very nice light.
 

MikeLip

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Your experience with the 10440s tells me that either light lights are highly variable or the cells are. I suspect the lights are, since the cells should be being pounded out on automated equipment with very little human intervention - good for consistency. The lights are still early and are likely being fiddled with.

While I was on the Battery Junction website getting my new pieces, I also dropped an LM31 in my basket. I've heard a LOT of good about that light and so far nothing bad. It's about the right price and, imho, where the Avenger should be priced.

So while I'm not thrilled with this particular light, hope springs eternal.
 
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Flic

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Hey MikeLip,

I'm 51 also and I was just about to order an Avenger - it's one great looking light, especially in twistie version. I held off as I had gotten on the NiteCore train and was waiting to have more spare funds. As soon as users started reporting their experiences I scratched the Avenger off my "to get" list. NO LIGHT should need adapters or tin foil to work with intended batteries. Just the thought that a new light SHIPS with adapters drives me nuts.

I can just imagine how you feel. I do hope the adapter sticks work, but If I were you, I think I'd be best off selling it. Even if the adapter worked, it would still insult me everytime I had to change a battery.
 

MikeLip

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Hey MikeLip,

I can just imagine how you feel. I do hope the adapter sticks work, but If I were you, I think I'd be best off selling it. Even if the adapter worked, it would still insult me every time I had to change a battery.

I've considered selling it. But when I sell something I *have* to be honest about it and I would be listing the problems I'm having with it. And that would depress the price I'd be comfortable asking to the point that I doubt it would be worth the effort of selling.
 

kooter

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Mikelip, i feel the same as you right now. I got it to work with 10440s, but its no where near as bright as my Jet u. Very disappointed with the output. :sick2:
 

Thujone

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I am sorry you are having such a negative experience, I agree with half-witt, if you are getting a new contact stick for the twisty mode then it is something that no one else is getting. To the best of my knowledge (and the 2 supplemental packages LP sent me) there is not such thing.

Since you are the only person reporting any issues with the twisty mode and UF10440s (I also have used this combo with no issue) I would suggest perhaps youa re missing or have not installed the screw in post that is intended for use with the twisty mode, or perhaps you do have a different length cell. Everyone else's issues are in regards to clicky mode.
 

Thujone

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but its no where near as bright as my Jet u.

Wasn't this a problem with the Jet-U? I was under the impression it over drove the cell and get very hot in high w/ very short runtime. If I am wrong I will remove this post. Just the impression I got after reading reviews.
 

half-watt

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Just the thought that a new light SHIPS with adapters drives me nuts.

the varying length pegs are apparently necessary (IMO as i look at the design of the light) since there is NO COIL SPRING used in the Avenger. normally a coil spring not only provides an electrical path, but also compresses more or less to ensure good electrical contact of the cell(s) at both ends of the light (i.e., at both negative and positive terminals).

this is the reason, i assume, for the varying length pegs. an attempt to ensure electrical contact is properly made. nice in design/concept; somewhat deficient, apparently from the reported problems, in execution/practice.

the factory foam washer is only to prevent the cell from rattling around in the Avenger's body/barrel/tube. even though it is a "spring", of sorts, it can do nothing to assist in making electrical contact when cells vary ever so slightly in length since the positive terminal is not moved at all by the foam's change in compression.
 

Thujone

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the positive terminal is not moved at all


The Positive post does move a bit, it is what switches between low and high. There is just not enough range of motion to overcome the need for different length posts. I am not excited about knowing I have a .41mm thick piece of foil under my clicky post but at the end of the day with it in place it works flawlessly for me.
 

kooter

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I have had no probs with my Jet u, but i dont run it on high for more than about 10 seconds at at time, with the 10440.
 

MikeLip

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I am sorry you are having such a negative experience, I agree with half-witt, if you are getting a new contact stick for the twisty mode then it is something that no one else is getting. To the best of my knowledge (and the 2 supplemental packages LP sent me) there is not such thing.

Since you are the only person reporting any issues with the twisty mode and UF10440s (I also have used this combo with no issue) I would suggest perhaps youa re missing or have not installed the screw in post that is intended for use with the twisty mode, or perhaps you do have a different length cell. Everyone else's issues are in regards to clicky mode.

Hmmm. I went back and reviewed my PMs with Matt, and I was clear that the problem I was having was with twistie. Well, we'll see. As for the screw in post, WHAT screw in post? There is nothing in the instructions about a screw in post with twisties. Oh wait, WHAT instructions? :devil: And why does it work with alkalines?

Ugh.
 

MikeLip

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the varying length pegs are apparently necessary (IMO as i look at the design of the light) since there is NO COIL SPRING used in the Avenger. normally a coil spring not only provides an electrical path, but also compresses more or less to ensure good electrical contact of the cell(s) at both ends of the light (i.e., at both negative and positive terminals).

Yup. I thought about it and the only easy way you can make a light that varies output by cranking the head down is by keeping the battery in a fixed position. That means no spring, or a very strong spring that will overcome the resistance of the foam at the head end.
 

Thujone

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And why does it work with alkalines?

Ugh.

If you are using an alk that does not have wrap going to the bottom side the battery will make contact with the bottom of the tube completing the circuit.
As to the twist in post. When you remove the black cap and look at the battery tube there should be a post screwed in with two holes on the top that you can tighten with the included tweezers. If you simply see right into the battery tube then this piece is missing.
 

MikeLip

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If you are using an alk that does not have wrap going to the bottom side the battery will make contact with the bottom of the tube completing the circuit.
As to the twist in post. When you remove the black cap and look at the battery tube there should be a post screwed in with two holes on the top that you can tighten with the included tweezers. If you simply see right into the battery tube then this piece is missing.

Ah. Then its not missing.
 
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