Malkoff M60 & M30 Runtimes,etc

[Sgt. LED]

More people need M30's!
So versatile.

 

[FrogmanM]

well....if there were more 3Ps around I'd be down for a M30 in a heart beat!

Mayo

 

[Rat6P]

Bill,

what are the capacity of eneloops ? Is the regulation good with them......or when it drops off is it really noticeable?


I initialy used el cheapos, but they turned out to be quite good batteries:shrug:
Unfortunately i dont have a lightmeter......so i basically pointed the host with m30 at a wall about 3meters away.......I used a second flashlight that has similar output to the M30 on Alks and checked intermittently by comparing them on the wall.........the M30 stayed just a bit brighter the whole time until it had a drastic drop in regulation..............though i guess i should do the test again to make sure.
I am currently using some panasonic evolta which seem quite good, will have to do a runtime test on those.
I wonder how well Energizer L91's would go for runtime....I would test em out but not available where I live. they are supposed to have quite a high safe current draw.

I think I will have to buy some eneloops.


I would love to find a 3P aswell.......or any decent 1 cell P60 host....
anyone know af any?

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Bill,

what are the capacity of eneloops ? Is the regulation good with them......or when it drops off is it really noticeable?


I initialy used el cheapos, but they turned out to be quite good batteries:shrug:
Unfortunately i dont have a lightmeter......so i basically pointed the host with m30 at a wall about 3meters away.......I used a second flashlight that has similar output to the M30 on Alks and checked intermittently by comparing them on the wall.........the M30 stayed just a bit brighter the whole time until it had a drastic drop in regulation..............though i guess i should do the test again to make sure.
I am currently using some panasonic evolta which seem quite good, will have to do a runtime test on those.
I wonder how well Energizer L91's would go for runtime....I would test em out but not av

ailable where I live. they are supposed to have quite a high safe current draw.

I think I will have to buy some eneloops.


I would love to find a 3P aswell.......or any decent 1 cell P60 host....
anyone know af any?

Capacity of Eneloop's is 1900-2000mAh, charged to 1.43 or so. I use them cause they are ready to go when I need them, not loosing too much capacity sitting. Chevrofreak uses 2650mAh cells, not sure which brand. These are good if you use your light daily. Eneloops have a good discharge rate at 1 amp current draw. I am measuring just under 1 amp draw at tailcap with Eneloops and M30.

M30 shines when driven by an 18650. Pulls more current than AA's or CR123, but puts out max lumens. I have lots of 18650's, some protected, most unprotected so would have to monitor these closely. With CR123, or RCR123 I use an E1E body, with E2C adapter, and will try out an Arc CR123 body with Arc2E, and E2C adapters. I use the Arc 2AA body for NiMh use with M30. I may or may not attempt to get a 3P body.

Bill

 

[pete55555]

I would love to find a 3P aswell.......or any decent 1 cell P60 host....
anyone know af any?

I was at a local gun show last weekend and found a 3P NIB in original two piece cardboard box with all original paperwork......$30

 

[FrogmanM]

BOO...BOO on you!!! :nana:

Very nice find!:wave: Now go ask Gene for a M30!

Mayo

 

[Sgt. LED]

Who was it on here that was cutting and rethreading 6P tubes a while back...... I can't remember. Now come to think of it there are several CPF'ers that can cut and thread Al tubes!

So why not make a few 3P's?

 

[pete55555]

BOO...BOO on you!!! :nana:

Very nice find!:wave: Now go ask Gene for a M30!

Mayo

Already got a couple M30's from Gene !

 

[Rat6P]

Who was it on here that was cutting and rethreading 6P tubes a while back...... I can't remember. Now come to think of it there are several CPF'ers that can cut and thread Al tubes!

So why not make a few 3P's?

Thats actually a good idea.
Though I would never consider cutting down my 6P! shame on you
But what about those cheaper solarforce type hosts L2 etc......What is it?...$15-$25 bucks for a whole host....add the cost of machining...$$??......If it didnt get too expensive would be a great alternative to a 3P.
But damn...... picking up a 3P for 30 bucks ..Bargain!

 

[etc]

Thanks for clearing up the resistance issue Bill.

I recently received an M30. Excellent device.
I am running it in a Surefire 6P with a 1 cell extender.
I am using 2 AA alkalines as my first test batteries.
I have no fancy equipment to measure outputs etc.
I used 2 AA batteries that come from a 4 cell pack that cost $1. El cheapo and crappo.
Using these cells, the M30 matched my Wolfeyes HO 170 lumen rated CREE lamp(2 x AW 17500's).
I noticed no drop in output for 1 hour and 5 mins, At which the lamp did not shut down, but continued to give useable light......I discontinued my highly scientific tests at the 1 hour 30mins mark.........As after the first drop in output that I noticed, well this is when I will be normally changing to fresh cells. Good to know it wont die on me flat out though.
During the whole test the light only got warm......never was it uncomfortable to touch or hold onto.

I'm Impressed....I'm getting a really bright light that runs for 1 hour or there abouts off 2 AA alkalines.
I tried an AW lithium-ion and it was very bright.

It would be most interesting to see the same performance on NiMH and L91 Lithiums...

over 1 hour on 2xAA Alkalines is impressive enough.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Read my post about M30 and 2 AA's eh!
E-mail Gene and never look back.

I run my C3 with the M30 and 2 E2 lithiums or 2 2500maH Sony NimH's from time to time. It is dependable but you must E-Mail Gene to get him to make the M30 for you.

No reason at all why the cheaper 9P would not work just the same.

If you want to go to 2 AW 17500's and use them with a M60 in the 9P that is fine as well. 18500 cells have more juice but you gotta find somebody to bore the body and pay them.

The sweet thing about the M30 is you can revert to using a 17650 cell in a 6P at any time, or find a 3P and run it on a primary, or 1 primary and 1 cell spacer in a 6p, or 1 primary and 2 spacer cells in a 9P. Or 1 AW RCR123 and 1 spacer in a 6p OR 1 AW RCR123 and 2 spacers in a 9P.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I posted awhile back that I used an adapter to fit my 2AA Arc body so I could run the M30. A 9P, or 6P with the A19 one cell adapter works as well. I use a rolled up heavy piece of paper or light cardboard to make an AA holder so the AA's does not rattle around and to maintain correct alignment with the +spring of the M30.

Bill

 

[etc]

Thanks for clearing up the resistance issue Bill.

I recently received an M30. Excellent device.
I am running it in a Surefire 6P with a 1 cell extender.
I am using 2 AA alkalines as my first test batteries.
I have no fancy equipment to measure outputs etc.
I used 2 AA batteries that come from a 4 cell pack that cost $1. El cheapo and crappo.
Using these cells, the M30 matched my Wolfeyes HO 170 lumen rated CREE lamp(2 x AW 17500's).
.

Beamshots?

 

[LED61]

I´ve read through this thread trying to find the difference between an M30 and an M60. So far what I got MAYBE is that one is regulated and the other is not ? Am I correct ?

Someone please post the differences.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I´ve read through this thread trying to find the difference between an M30 and an M60. So far what I got MAYBE is that one is regulated and the other is not ? Am I correct ?

Someone please post the differences.

It looks like the M60, if you read the info, is regulated between 3.8-9 volts showing fairly flat regulation during that time. The M30 seems to be a variation of one of Gene's circuits that he runs in his mag drop ins( I am guessing). I am guessing here but he told me that the M30 will hold a high output until the battery drops to 3.2 volts or so, and them it will run at a reduced level starting about 130 lumens (my estimate using bounce with lightmeter). Which means, in effect, that the M30 when run with one Li-Ion will operate at mostly full output and then drop off will be pretty quick and drastic as cell looses its capacity, and it will probably never approach the 3.2 volt output level. The M30 when run with one CR123, or two alkalines (I use Eneloops) starts out at the 130 lm output and maintains that well below 2.4 volts or so. I have yet to do a runtime plot of te M30. My impressions is the M30 is a hearty little drop-in.

Bill

 

[LED61]

Thanks Bill, I actually posted this same question in another thread and forgot to edit my post in this one. The answers were found in the product details at

www.malkoffdevices.com

The M30 as you say has a lower input voltage, so it is a no-no to run it on more than ONE LI-ION. Both are regulated but designed to run in different power sources (number and type of batteries), both have the same output.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Thanks Bill, I actually posted this same question in another thread and forgot to edit my post in this one. The answers were found in the product details at

www.malkoffdevices.com

The M30 as you say has a lower input voltage, so it is a no-no to run it on more than ONE LI-ION. Both are regulated but designed to run in different power sources (number and type of batteries), both have the same output.

Yes, it looks like the M30 could be run with up to four AA's, NiMh preferably, and four alkalines would be ok because the current draw from alkalines would very quickly drop below 5.5 volts at startup.

Bill

 

[etc]

(1) AW 1600 mah 17670 + SF C2 + M60 ran for 3 hours before I shut it off - it was very dim at that point. At the one hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.78 volts. Roughly 1 hour of regulated output and 2 hours of declining output.

You must have used unprotected AW cells, because I use M60 with AW protected 2x18500 for the total capacity of 3,000 mAh and I get a solid 2:17 hours runtime, all regulated. Then it suddenly shuts off. If you get 1 hour regulated then that sounds about right, as 17670 has lesser capacity.


(1) AW 2200 mah 18650 + Leefbody + M60 ran for 3.5 hours before I shut it off (had to go to work) it was dim but not as dim as the 17670 test - probably would do 4 hours+. At the 1.5 hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.83 volts. Over 1.5 hours of regulated output and 2 - 2.5 hours? of declining output.

See above. 1.5 hours of regulated output sounds about right, as I get just over 2 hours with 3,000 mAh in 2x18500 cells. The cell's protection circuit kicks in at, I think about 3.5V, or slightly less even.

One thing that is clear, Li-Ions are better than RCR123 cells with their dismal capacity and runtime.

I do wonder if I should get some unprotected cells due to their slow dimming feature instead of sudden cut off as with protected cells. Fully realizing that overdischarge is not good.



It should be noted that although not noticeable (to my eyes) the RCR123 setup produces more output as measured by my cheap styrofoam cooler lightbox: 3730 lux verses 3300 lux using the18650.

Interesting. No experience with RCR123 but M60 in Surefire 9P seemed brighter on 3x123 primaries vs. Li-Ion cells.



A couple more tests:

(2) AW 1500 mah 18500 + Leefbody + M60 ran for 2 hours and 27 minutes before shutting off. There was no noticeable drop in output during the run.

Do you mean TWO 18500 cells + M60? I wasn't sure Leef made a 1x18500 body C/C.


(2) AW 2200 mah 18650 + Leefbody + M60 ran for 3 hours and 14 minutes before shutting off. Again no noticeable drop in output during the run.



That sounds like the runtime I want. 2x18500 is OK but I bring at least 1 and maybe 2 sets of spares. Primaries of course are great backup spares, appear to run brighter and longer.
One interesting observation, as I already talked about, with short-burst, you seem to get lesser runtime than in one continious run. How much less, I cannot quantify. It does seem limited to Li-Ion cells. I could however be mistaken.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

(1) AW 1600 mah 17670 + SF C2 + M60 ran for 3 hours before I shut it off - it was very dim at that point. At the one hour mark I pulled the cell and measured the voltage - 3.78 volts. Roughly 1 hour of regulated output and 2 hours of declining output.

You must have used unprotected AW cells, because I use M60 with AW protected 2x18500 for the total capacity of 3,000 mAh and I get a solid 2:17 hours runtime, all regulated. Then it suddenly shuts off. If you get 1 hour regulated then that sounds about right, as 17670 has lesser capacity.

2X18500's charged to 4.2 volts each will give you 8.4 volts with 1500mAh total capacity, or you could say 2X18500's at 1500mA's total capacity will give you 8.4 volts X 1500mA's = 12.60 watt/hrs, which is obviously more than one 18500 LiIon = 6.30 watt/hrs, and more than 2X CR123's = about 9.0 watt/hrs.

Bill

 

[etc]

Calculating this for 123 primaries: 3x123

3*3.7V = 11.1V

W = V*Amp

Panasonic 123 cells (Same thing as Surefire supposedly) rates at 1600 mAh, thus:

W = 11.1*1600mAh = 17.8 WH

Which is obviously more than 2x18500 cells.

Now for 2x18650:
2*3.7V = 7.4V

Given capacity of one 18650 is 2500 mAh (Soon to be released AW cells anyway)

W = 7.4*2500mAh = 18.5W

Or slightly better than 3x123 primaries but not by much. It appears that 2x18650 cells rated at 2200 mAh are actually inferior to 3x123 primaries.

Now how do I calculate the runtime from the above? I know the consumption of M60 is 600 mAh.