Military Aircraft, Gotta love e'm

[Icebreak]

Re: British Vulcan

Yes sir!

The Vulcan is one gorgeous bird. I got to see a few of them at airshows. They were a crowd favorite in the US. I still have images in my mind of one banking left after take-off. Wow.

I would love to see the Duxford Air Museum.

 

[DieselDave]

Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Here is one of my favorite stories to tell, it's better in person, you can still see the fear in my eyes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Let me qualify my carrier experience by first saying as a Marine A-6 guy we didn't deploy on the carrier. Many years before my time our squadron deployed on the carrier but it was over before I joined the squadron in 90. However, I did have to carrier qual., (CQ) in the RAG. I have a total of 16-day traps and 8 night.

Oct. 1990, 0400, NAS Mirimar, CA. I am a student in the RAG. (I have my wings but am not fully qualified in the A-6. I will graduate in a month or two. I am not even a "nugget" yet.) We flew out of Whidbey Island, WA. the day before to start our carrier qual. training. I will be flying with "Otter" for CQ. Otter is another student and like me is wet being the ears. The A-6 is the only community that does CQ Student-Student. The other platforms are single seat or Student-Instructor. Students NEVER fly together in training and it's for a good reason, students are stupid.
Like I said before, we get to the brief at 0400. The mission calls for our instructors to fly lead for 4 student aircraft. They will lead us out to the carrier, which is supposed to be about 200 miles off shore. Things start going south early that morning. One of the instructors is sick and can't fly. I assume that means one of the students will get bumped so an instructor can lead the formation. "Oh no, you want me to do what?" Otter and I are told we will lead the other aircraft out to the carrier. Otter and I are barely competent enough to find our aircraft on the flight line. Neither one of us has ever lead a 2 plane of intruders (section) and now we will lead a 4 plane (division) out to the carrier, a boat I have only seen from the shore.
We do one-minute interval takeoffs since we are not qualified to lead anything, much less a division takeoff. It takes us about 10 minutes to get joined up, everything's Ok so far. We check into the warning area 20 minutes later and as briefed we all go our separate ways. They didn't want us to stay together any longer than necessary. We try to go toward the spot where the carrier is supposed to be but the area is "hot" so we get a bunch of vectors away from where we want to go. Once we turn toward the carriers area I try to find it on radar but was not having any luck. We are running at 300' 450 knots. We are going extra fast because we are late for our "Charlie" time. Your Charlie time is your assigned arrival time at the boat. Finally I see it on radar and the TACAN locks up. We are 40 miles out and our Charlie time was five minutes ago. I call the boat to check in and am told by an unpleasant person my signal is "Buster" Buster means; get your butt here as fast as you can pedal. We immediately start dumping fuel because you can't trap with fuel in the wings. As we approach the back of the boat at 600' and 400 knots (we have slowed down a little because the adults will be watching us now) we are still dumping. We turn off the dumps just before the back of the boat and make a pretty decent break to the downwind. We turn in for final, landing checklist complete, LSO says the familiar, "3/4 of a mile, call the ball" I then say what I will immediately regret, "Otter" ball, fuel in the wings" Crap, we didn't get all the fuel out. At this point the Airboss comes on the radio and these words were burned into my memory forever. "Clean-up, climb-up, fly straight ahead and don't come back until you are ready to land. I can't give his voice inflection in print but try to envision being 15 years old, coming home at about 3AM and your Dad meets you at the door, that voice! We go away, come back in 10 minutes and make an uneventful landing. We "bounce" several more times that morning and then shut down on the ship. The debrief was not pretty due to the fuel thing. Our passes were average but we got a 1 above average grade sheet for leading the division.
After the debrief we got our room assignments, ate chow and looked around the ship. The brief for the evening flight started at 2000. At 21:45 we were manned up and being taxied toward the cat. Man, it was dark. Our instructors asked for and got us an illumination waver for us to be able fly CQ with no horizon, 1/8 moon or so and overcast. We taxied up to the cat, it was like looking at a black hole. I could see nothing off the end of the deck but black. Next thing I knew we were going into "tension". Tension is full power and ready to go, just waiting for somebody to push the get off the ship button. "Oh crap, our inertial platform just dumped," So we lose the main gyro, it's ok (yea right) we have a backup and I have my flashlight pointed at it (crooked neck flashlight that's always on for the cat shot and pointing at the instruments. It's attached to your vest is why the crook neck comes in so handy). I switched to the back up system and it's no bueno either. I calmly and coolly key my mike and say, "suspend cat 1" It probably came out as desperate cry for help but I hope it sounded cool. We got no reply and we were sitting in tension and the director had his hand on the deck. I waited about 2 minutes or maybe ½ second and said it again but with more force, "suspend cat 1". The "boss" in his sweet way answered back immediately, "I heard ya" I looked over at the cat officer and he signaled us to throttle back. I tried to get another alignment on the inertial but it wasn't happening. They finally kicked us to the rear of the boat and we got the mechs. to take a look. We sat in the jet for about 2 hours with the engines running while they troubleshot the system. They finally gave us the thumbs up, we topped off with gas and went forward to try it again. Sitting in the plane while the mechs. were working had given me time to reflect on our first night visit to the cat. What are the odds your first night cat shot, which is already scary as hell will turn to absolute dog-doo? I told myself that at least the worst was behind us.
We pulled into the cat area, they hooked up the shuttle again and we went into tension. Full power, gauges looking good, controls are free and easy, thumbs up, salute. "You got to be kidding me", the platform on the inertial just dumped again. Mr. Cool keys the radio, "suspend cat 1" Boss answers me the first time and we are sent to the rear once again. I am starting to notice a slight tick in Otter and I think I may get a bladder control problem if this ever happens again. It's about 0130 now and we are sitting in the plane with the mechs. working away. We have been at it for over 21 hours, life was starting to have less meaning. At 0200 we were given the word to shut down, we were done for the night. What a day!
The next night went better. We took off, did our holding and approach with all the numbers matching up. The only other true terror was that first night trap. (Remember we had no horizon) I will take a lie detector test and testify to the fact that once we got down to about 150' on our approach the boat literally leaped out of the water and crashed into the bottom of our aircraft. The ground rush took my breath away. That was the scariest moment of my life. The platform dumping paled in comparison. I will quote myself with my first words once the plane had stopped ( 3 wire I must add) "THAT SUCKED" I don't admire the Navy guys for doing it every day, that's fun. I admire them for doing it every night, that's rough. I have yet to meet a Navy flyer that said he got used to landing on the carrier at night. I fully understand the meaning of landing on a postage stamp at night and will freely admit to not missing any part of it.

DD

 

[LEDagent]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Here is a picture that a friend of mine sent to me about 3 months ago. He works on a ship and i think (if i can recall correctly), one of his buddies snapped this picture. It don't know if he really did or not, i don't know if that's allowed...heck...it could have been a picture found online.

...but it's cool! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[DieselDave]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

That is a great shot and a pretty day at sea. Look at how canted up the elevators are during the cat shot. It guarantees the nose will come up as soon as the plane leaves the deck. The F-18 Hornet guys are hands off during the cat shot. The controls are set and the plane is allowed to set its attitude after leaving the deck. Once safely airborne the pilot then takes the stick.

 

[LEDagent]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Wow...i don't know all the terminology that you are using, but i'm guessing that a "cat shot" is a catapult type of take off.

Are you saying that the entire take off is completely automated? WOW i never knew that...then again all i know about an airplane is that it has wings and an engine. How long have take offs been automated? What altitude does the jet reach before the pilot can take control?

Sorry for all the questions, but military aircraft is cool!

 

[PieThatCorner]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

The F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet are automated for the AC catapult, but the pilot grabs the stick immediately after leaving the deck.

And yet another great story Dave... man, I was getting Goosebumps!

-Jim

 

[James S]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Dave, now I've got too much adrenalin to go to sleep /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Jeeze man!

You have a gift for writing.

 

[DieselDave]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

LEDagent,The takeoff is automated in the sense the plane is "trimmed" to it's take-off configuration by the pilot during his takeoff checklist. Once he goes to Military power (official term used to describe throttle to the firewall but no afterburner) he takes his hands away from the stick because all he can do is screw it up. Some guys may leave their hand lightly on the stick but you will see many others with their hands on grab bars near the canopy. We called the bars, "The towel rack". You keep your hands on or near the throttle to ensure the throttle doesn't retard during the shot. There is also a bar that rotates out near the throttle for use during cat shots to make sure your hand doesn't pull the throttle back, I can't remember its name. Immediately after leaving the deck, (probably about 1 second later) you take the stick and fly the plane. The F-18 is the only aircraft I know of that does this, we sure didn't do it in the A-6. You must take the stick to perform your clearing turn. Watch them all take off and you will see an immediate right or left hand turn so they aren't in line with the ship if they have to eject. Your direction of turn is determined by witch cat you are shot from. The F-18 is different than all previous gen. carrier aircraft. Computers not the stick control the control surfaces. The stick inputs are artificial and those inputs clue the computer into what you want the aircraft to do. If you ever see an F-18 landing on the carrier watch the rear stabilizers, they are moving faster than a pilot could make the inputs. I don't know if you could land a F-18 on a carrier without the computers.

 

[Icebreak]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Come on with it Dave.

James S said it better but...

I caught most of your terms except for RAG which speaks well for your ability to describe this event.

I've wondered for years about why F-18 pilots pumped the stabilizers so fast. Am I wrong in my mental images of F- 14 pilots heavily manipulating the stabilizors on take-off?

Aw forget my questions. Just tell us more...or write a book...PayPal sent.

 

[Sigman]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

Man you're making me "homesick"...though never getting to fly in a fighter in my avionics years - just sitting in the cockpit with external power, ops checking systems...or riding the launch truck while the jets takeoff in full AB...or responding to a "RED BALL" (system malfunction during preflight w/engines fired up) and successfully fixing the problem allowing the jet to launch - "WHAT A RUSH!!"

 

[Kiessling]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

oh come on guys!
you make me jeleaus! these are really great stories! thanx.

BTW: is there a museum where I can touch a SR-71 or even climb in the pilot's place and make stupid looking "I was there" photos?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard

 

[DieselDave]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Cat Shot

[ QUOTE ]
Icebreak said:
Come on with it Dave.

James S said it better but...

I caught most of your terms except for RAG which speaks well for your ability to describe this event.

RAG-Replacement Air Group.
The place newly winged students go to get training in their fleet aircraft. The term was officially changed for political correctness in the late 80's to, FRS-Fleet Replacement Squadron, but the term RAG hung on.

I've wondered for years about why F-18 pilots pumped the stabilizers so fast. Am I wrong in my mental images of F- 14 pilots heavily manipulating the stabilizers on take-off?

Yes ands no.
Pilots perform what is called a "wipeout", which is moving all the flight controls to their limits prior to starting the takeoff roll or just after going into tension on the catapult. Sometimes land-based aircraft perform the wipeout just after starting the takeoff roll. Once you get any amount of speed on the aircraft you quit "stirring the pot" and leave the controls in the takeoff positions until getting airborne.



Aw forget my questions. Just tell us more...or write a book...PayPal sent.

Thanks for the nice comments. I would love to write a book. I have started many times but then read another Clancy and realize I am trying to play a game far above my head.

DD

 

[DieselDave]

Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m, Flight Student

I hope I am not boring yall. Here is one of my student stories. Not as exciting as the carrier story, but it's funnier.

I bet you know people just like this student.

I was flying a check ride with a Navy student early one morning in our T-39 Sabreliner. The T-39 is a converted business jet. It may be the coolest biz jet ever built. The wings came right from an F-86 Sabrejet. Likes it's cousin the F-86, the T-39 is strong and very agile. We would routinely put 4g's on the jet and do "other stuff". At sea level you can fly at 355 knots indicated, at altitude we would get speeds of about 420-440 TAS.
On this morning my student was having some problems, he was lost! Being a check-ride I was supposed to provide minimal assistance but I was starting to think "minimal" wouldn't be enough to get us back on course or time. The low level route called for us to fly at 300 knots at 500'. Legal course width was 5 miles from centerline. We were the FULL 5 miles right of course. Any further off course and he would start getting me lost. I was talking to the corporate pilot via discreet comm.. (discreet comm.., means only the pilot could hear me, not the student) Our corp. pilot, a retired Navy Capt. And former Vigilante squadron CO and pilot who never got rattled was getting a little anxious. He was concerned we would violate the route structure and risk a flight violation.
Staying on course is only part of the equation for the student. He must also keep us on time. He is required to fly us over the simulated target, 350 miles from the start of the route at plus or minus 30 seconds from pre-planned time. As you get off course and make corrections it slows you down and you have to increase speed to catch back up to preflight numbers. You are doing these things while at the same time exhibiting verbal diarrhea to complete all the required calls and procedures. It is a stressful environment but helps prepare the knucklehead for the rigors of flying in combat. This particular student had a history of struggling through the program. He was only about 2 months from getting his wings but it wasn't looking good. By the time the students got to me and my fellow instructors they had been in flight school for more than a year. Contrary to what a student thinks, we really try to do all we can to get them up to speed so they can graduate. We were the final hurdle before wings. Our syllabus took about 6 months to complete.
So there we were, cruising along without a clue. I see a small town about 4 miles in front of the aircraft so I ask my student if he knows where we are. He says, "No sir, I'm not really sure". (at least he's honest). I then say to him, "See that small town 3 miles in front of us", he says yes. (we are traveling at 1 mile every 12 seconds) I ask him if there are any small towns on his chart and he says, "yes" (There are about 1000 small towns on a chart. I am being sarcastic with him, trying to get him to relax and perform) I then say, "I see a water tower and you know many water towers have the name of the city on them, right? Whatever you do don't bother to look at the tower as we pass it by so you can figure out where we are." He replies, "I understand". We go screaming past the town and water tower and sure enough it has the name of the town clearly displayed for him to see. I wait another 2 minutes after we pass the town before speaking again because I am certain a course correction by my rocket scientist is on the tip of his tongue. It never comes, hmmmm. I finally ask the young lad if he knows where we are and he says no. I then ask him what the water tower said and he replies, "You told me, don't bother to look at the tower as we pass it by". I am floored, the pilot and I just stare at each other speechless. He was right, I did say that but can anyone be that simple and still fly jets? The answer is no.
Because it was my miscommunication I went ahead and told him where we were and instructed him to get us back on course. He made the wrong corrections, I tried to help a little more and he was still screwing it up. I finally called "uncle" and we climbed up and headed home.
He wasn't surprised I "downed" him for the flight (downed =failed) he got a few more tries before being attrited. I really liked this kid. He was not a dummy at all. He had a degree from MIT in engineering but when put under stress and asked to exhibit common sense and work very quickly he was history. He ended up going to Subs. where I understand he did quite well.

PS: After he was attrited and waiting to be transferred I sat down for a long talk with the young man. He told me how he had a job in college that paid him $6 an hour and he worked 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week. He worked there for a year until he found a job doing the same thing and same schedule for $6.50 a hour. He went on to tell me the only bad thing about the $6.50 an hour job was he had to ride his bicycle 20 miles each way to get to the job. I asked him if he took the job because he liked riding his bike and he said no, it was for the money. So…You ride your bike 10 hours a week while going to college to make an extra $10 a week. The boy was little different.

 

[donn]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

You can see RAF Tornado F3's flying out of RAF Linford here in Yorkshire. A few times at night all you'll see are the afterburners as they climb. They look just like two very fast orange stars disappearing into space.
Have been alot of airshows but the coolest thing I've ever seen was when an USAF F-15 did a victory roll over York the day the allies started bombing Afghanistan.

 

[ygbsm]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

The "a day in the life of an Instructor Pilot" story is another great one. Some of the best stories I've heard are from Air Force IPs in Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) who have trainees hook (as they say in the Air Force for the big unsatisfactory "U" you get on the paperwork) rides because of incredible and sometimes truly scary behavior. It's good/bad to hear the same stuff happens in the Navy.

I like the line I've heard from Navy guys who've spent their share of time "in the tank", that they do the day traps for free, but at night they get paid.

 

[Albany Tom]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

Dave - The stories are great! There aren't that many people who have been there that also can write.

Years ago I read an autobiography of one the WWII european theater generals. It was full of interesting stories, yet a little clumsy to read. Your stuff just flows along like we're with you. I'm sure it would be a lot of work, but I know you could do a book.

 

[PieThatCorner]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

Geez Dave, those are great stories! I suppose MIT didn't teach him common sense... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd have to agree -- these are the type of stories that come from experiences that aren't on the "usual occurrence" scale... you really should write some of them down -- what's incredibly fascinating to the rest of us is probably just old news to you... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Jim

 

[FalconFX]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

Dave, you need to write a book about your experiences...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[LED-FX]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

Yup, I`ll buy a copy of Diesel Dave`s book when it comes out, great stuff Dave, thanks

Kiessling, the SR71 at Duxford, think it may be only public display one outside U.S., is on the deck and you can walk around and touch it, don`t think anyones going to allow anyone into the cockpit of one though.

Now if could just get some of that radar absorbent paint for my bike.....

East Fortune Air Museum down the road from here,lets people into the cockpits of some of its aircraft on open days. Realised a lifetime ambition and got into the Vulcan there, didn`t have a darn camera with me though.

These ones have been around a while but good for a chuckle.

P = The problem logged by the pilot.
S = The solution and action taken by the engineers.

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except autoland very rough.
S: Autoland not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs are currently on backorder.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 fpm (feet per minute)descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.

P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with all the words.

P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.


Adam

 

[Tomas]

Re: Military Aircraft, Gotta love e\'m

Probably really shouldn't revive this month-old thread, but I just ran into a new book about aerial recon in the Eisenhower era, and it seemed to fit in with some of the interests here, so ...

To start of with, here's a pic of Jim Baker, who designed the camera used in the TR-1 to photograph Soviet military sites. Photo Credit: National Reconnaissance Office

The camera he's with has one of the smaller lenses of those on that bird ... those lenses were magnificent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In the SR-71B, one of the cameras actually layed horizontal in the body and had a right-angle turn at the end of the optics so they could look down - the lens was waaaaaayyy too long to mount vertically ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh! yeah, here's a link to a site about that new book. Looks interesting: Secret Empire Be sure to check out the photo page ...