Modding a 6D Mag on a budget - suggestions?

[Hack On Wheels]

I'm going to help a friend mod his 6D Mag and he would like to keep it looking stock from the outside. I guess its also worth nothing that though I'm assuming the switch still works fine, the guts of the light aren't in great condition.

The budget isn't big at all, say $50, but I'm sure if something awesome enough was suggested then the budget could stretch.

The best option for the head setup seems to be a fairly standard P7 or MC-E, using the stock reflector for starters and probably with a heatsink like the H22A one.

I've also read over a bunch of options for driving it, but I can't decide on what makes the most sense value-wise. This light will be built to pump out a lot more light than something with a single die emitter, so running the emitter at its max rating (700mA per die) would be good. If it can be used practically as well, ie. having a lower mode or modes, that would be a bonus.

However, the really big dilemma for me is deciding what to do with the space for 6 D-cells. As a fairly cheap solution, I was contemplating a simple 6 AA holder slid into the body with some foam or something to suspend it. This would have a connector of some sort wired onto it and there would be another connector wired into the Mag switch for this option. The upside would be that it could use AA cells which are pretty common and it would be much lighter I imagine than using a full complement of D cells. Its a lot of space to fill and play with, so any thoughts would be really appreciated!

Thanks for reading!

 

[old4570]

Cheap Hu!

$16 USD for SSC P7 from DX
$15 or there abouts for the heatsink
$12 for KD driver 5.5-15volts

= Around $42 give or take

Im still waiting for my heatsink so I can mod my 3D mag ..

 

[wildstar87]

Why not just put a couple dummy cells and run 4D? Then you could use a cheap but effective AMC7135 driver.

 

[Justin Case]

Whether using dummies to go to 3xD or 4xD, to run at full power with an AMC7135-based driver, you'd have to use NiMH cells (and 3xD NiMH is a better choice), which will increase the OP's budget unless he already has the cells and charger. With a buck driver and the full 6xD alkalines, you might need about 1.4A at the tail which might be doable with alkalines.

The $50 budget limit is a tough one, and will probably force you to use one of those cheap Chinese drivers. The KD P7 driver that has been recommended has a checkered reputation at best for running very hot and cooking itself. I personally would get a Shark Buck 3A driver or hipCC (and a Shark Sink heat sink), but that'll break your current budget. The driver is the heart of the system and IMO not a place to skimp.

You could try a 2S2P MC-E and a mod'ed KD ProductID=1640 driver. If you uses sense resistors of R250 and R560 on the KD driver, you can get nominally 1445mA output which will drive the MC-E at full power. I have such a setup and it runs in full regulation starting at Vin=7.0V and pulls about 1.4A at the tail at that voltage. But I'm using 2x18650 Li-ions and I measure more like 1.2A at the tail and am clearly running in full regulation with plenty of voltage headroom. IMO, it is more borderline with 6xD alkalines unless you are looking at just running in bursts. For extended use, the cells can sag to 1.1V per cell, and you will fall out of full regulation.

If you are willing to run at less than full power, then you can use the stock KD1640 driver at 1000mA drive current and run the 2S2P MC-E at 500mA per core. Then 6xD alkalines will have a very high probability of running in full regulation for extended periods.

 

[old4570]

The KD P7 driver that has been recommended has a checkered reputation at best for running very hot and cooking itself.

Sure does :thinking: But if he wants 6D and a set budget ? And if mem serves it is a multimode driver , so low or medium + the odd stint on high may be fine .

I can only suggest good heatsinking for the driver , + Im not sure if Alkalines can cook it ? Maybe they can ..

I have the driver myself , I have the SSC P7 LED , I just lack the heatsink .
But I have the option of sandwich driver , hmmm , I wonder if a 3.8A driver would be ok [ 17mode ] :candle:

Anyhow , I look forward to trying this out , sounds like a interesting driver . Now if only that heatsink would get here ...

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

If you had a slightly larger budget, I'd recommend:

SOB1000
P7/MC-E in 2S2P
UCL Lens

If you're willing to sacrifice output, you could probably sneak in under the $50 mark if you use an XR-E or SSC P4 emitter.

 

[Justin Case]

If you had a slightly larger budget, I'd recommend:

SOB1000
P7/MC-E in 2S2P
UCL Lens

If you're willing to sacrifice output, you could probably sneak in under the $50 mark if you use an XR-E or SSC P4 emitter.

You can't wire a P7 in 2S2P. It comes pre-wired in 4P, unlike the MC-E with is indivdually addressable.

Driving a P7 with an SOB1000 is a great setup. I've built this configuration. Although you are heavily underdriving the P7 at 250mA per core, the LED pulls only about a total of 3W from the driver and the driver runs at near 90% efficiency and thus also runs cool. A D bin P7 will still output around 300 OTF lumens. This setup should work very well with 6xD alkalines and have a long run time in regulation.

The SOB1000 works very well driving a 2S2P MC-E. I've built several such configurations. However, the one surprising downside vs the KD1640 driver is that the SOB1000 seems to need a slightly higher voltage headroom to run in regulation. I've measured a consistent 7.6V before the SOB1000 runs in full regulation, and drawing about 0.84A. This voltage requirement probably won't work well with 6xD alkalines or NiMH. I think that a major contribution to the higher voltage headroom, on top of things like diode Vf and switch Vds, is because the SOB's buck IC does not run at 100% duty cycle (the spec is 87%).

An SOB1000 driving an SSC P4 also works very well. I've built many examples of this configuration. Again, the voltage headroom to reach full regulation seems surprisingly high. My samples require about 4.6V. Fortunately, 6xD has plenty of margin.

Both SOB setups run rock-solid in regulation out to 12V and probably more (I didn't measure beyond that, but the spec is 16V).

 

[Justin Case]

Sure does :thinking: But if he wants 6D and a set budget ? And if mem serves it is a multimode driver , so low or medium + the odd stint on high may be fine .

I can only suggest good heatsinking for the driver , + Im not sure if Alkalines can cook it ? Maybe they can ..

I have the driver myself , I have the SSC P7 LED , I just lack the heatsink .
But I have the option of sandwich driver , hmmm , I wonder if a 3.8A driver would be ok [ 17mode ] :candle:

Anyhow , I look forward to trying this out , sounds like a interesting driver . Now if only that heatsink would get here ...

The multimode of that 2.8A KD driver fits the OP's stated interest, but he also said the light was to be built "to pump out a lot more light than something with a single die emitter, so running the emitter at its max rating (700mA per die) would be good." At least for me, a light that I can't depend on is useless. If I can't depend on running in max mode for any period up to the max run time, then I don't want the light. YMMV.

If you have to run at lower power modes because high power is unreliable, then why not just use a lower-powered driver in the first place? There are several reasonably good 1A drivers from KD and DX. I'd go with a 2S2P MC-E driven by the stock KD1640 driver. If you want multimodes, I'd wire in an external pot to the KD driver. If you still want high power and there is some flexibility in your budget, I'd get the Shark Buck 3A and Shark Sink and later on wire in an external pot for dimming capability (or add the Remora).

 

[jar3ds]

he does wanna go LED? then yeah a P7 / MC-E is the best setup...

but the ROP Hi is a nice combo with a 6D

 

[Hack On Wheels]

Thanks for all the replies! Looks like I have a number of options to take a look at.

If you had a slightly larger budget, I'd recommend:

SOB1000
P7/MC-E in 2S2P
UCL Lens

If you're willing to sacrifice output, you could probably sneak in under the $50 mark if you use an XR-E or SSC P4 emitter.

The budget may be able to stretch; a decent glass lens is definitely on the list, and running 2S2P might just be the best route if I can sort out a decent battery setup for higher voltage. I was thinking I might fit a simple 6AA holder in the body as my friend already has a bunch of NiMH AA cells, and alkalines are always easy to get, but I might be able to fit a couple 4 cell holders in there if I get them in the right form factor. He already has a nice L2D though, so there isn't so much interest in a single die emitter.

The multimode of that 2.8A KD driver fits the OP's stated interest, but he also said the light was to be built "to pump out a lot more light than something with a single die emitter, so running the emitter at its max rating (700mA per die) would be good." At least for me, a light that I can't depend on is useless. If I can't depend on running in max mode for any period up to the max run time, then I don't want the light. YMMV.

If you have to run at lower power modes because high power is unreliable, then why not just use a lower-powered driver in the first place? There are several reasonably good 1A drivers from KD and DX. I'd go with a 2S2P MC-E driven by the stock KD1640 driver. If you want multimodes, I'd wire in an external pot to the KD driver. If you still want high power and there is some flexibility in your budget, I'd get the Shark Buck 3A and Shark Sink and later on wire in an external pot for dimming capability (or add the Remora).

Driving the light at 500mA per die would probably still do the trick. 700mA is the ideal, but you are certainly correct that there is no point if it is unreliable. I'm not sure where I would put a pot on the Mag and I wouldn't know where to wire it in anyways. I'll take another look over at the Sandwich Shoppe for drivers.

he does wanna go LED? then yeah a P7 / MC-E is the best setup...

but the ROP Hi is a nice combo with a 6D

Thanks for reminding me about the ROP setups, any good threads on that? I'll take a look but I've been more or less just focused on LEDs for the past while and I know absolutely nothing about the other options.

Thanks all!

 

[p moore]

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=120462

Enough info to make your head hurt.

 

[Justin Case]

AA alkalines won't be able to hold their voltage under any appreciable current draw. I suppose if you can load enough AAs (subject to the max Vin of the driver), then a buck driver would eventually draw under 1A from the batteries and maybe alkalines would work ok. But I would go with NiMH AAs if you want to use AAs. My personal preference are Eneloops, which have impressive high current performance.

You thermal epoxy the Shark Sink to the inner wall of the Mag tube and thermal epoxy the Shark Buck driver to the Shark Sink. This separates the heat sinking for the LED from the heat sinking for the driver, which is preferable to thermal epoxying the driver board to the LED's heat sink.

If you search CPF for some of LED Zeppelin's builds, you'll find some photos of how he has installed multiple Sharks on Shark Sinks in his Mag mods.

 

[Hack On Wheels]

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=120462

Enough info to make your head hurt.

Awesome, thanks! I also just remembered that he has a 3 or 4 D cell Maglite, so maybe there could be one ROP and one LED mod done eventually... so many options!

AA alkalines won't be able to hold their voltage under any appreciable current draw. I suppose if you can load enough AAs (subject to the max Vin of the driver), then a buck driver would eventually draw under 1A from the batteries and maybe alkalines would work ok. But I would go with NiMH AAs if you want to use AAs. My personal preference are Eneloops, which have impressive high current performance.

You thermal epoxy the Shark Sink to the inner wall of the Mag tube and thermal epoxy the Shark Buck driver to the Shark Sink. This separates the heat sinking for the LED from the heat sinking for the driver, which is preferable to thermal epoxying the driver board to the LED's heat sink.

If you search CPF for some of LED Zeppelin's builds, you'll find some photos of how he has installed multiple Sharks on Shark Sinks in his Mag mods.

Yeah, I only use alkalines in a pinch. He has a bunch of Eneloops already, so that is what he would be using if some sort of AA setup was made. The 2D to 8AA adapter looks great if he can stretch the budget even more, hehe... Thanks for the info about the Shark!

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

You can't wire a P7 in 2S2P. It comes pre-wired in 4P, unlike the MC-E with is indivdually addressable.

I knew that...

 

[Justin Case]

I knew that...

Couldn't tell from the ambiguous "P7/MC-E in 2S2P" sentence construction. Plus, when combined with the suggestion to use an SOB1000 apparently for both LED suggestions, one LED is very underdriven while the other isn't. So it was hard to tell if you knew that or not, and thus hard to tell if you knew that the P7 is pre-wired in 4P.

 

[bstrickler]

I would recommend Litemania's heatsink, DSXOJ bin P7 from KD, and ShiningBeams 3-mode P7 driver. The only thing you will need to do is make/get dummy alkalines, since its max input is 6 volts.

Do NOT get the KD 5-15 volt driver. I had major problems with it until it decided to fry itself (and it was even heatsinked!).


http://litemania.org/product.php?id_product=10 P7 heatsink for D Mag
http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5485 P7 from KD


Unfortunately, it seems as though Shining Beam doesn't carry the driver anymore. You could try to get a hold of Bryan, and see if he still carries them, or has some left. http://www.ShiningBream.com


Once you do the p7 mod, all you would have to do is cut the cam off the reflector, and then widen the base hole, if needed.

~Brian

 

[3rdrock]

Unfortunately, it seems as though Shining Beam doesn't carry the driver anymore. You could try to get a hold of Bryan, and see if he still carries them, or has some left. http://www.ShiningBream.com~Brian

He has them in stock now. I ordered 6 myself.

 

[Hack On Wheels]

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the replies!

I'm planning to set up his 6D Mag in the future with an ROP (or maybe other incan) setup. He also has a 3D Mag which I'm planning to mod first as I think it would be a great host for a nice LED mod and still be light enough to carry around a bit, unlike the 6D which isn't as versatile.

Though now I've gotten excited myself and I've picked up a 2C Mag to mod! I'm thinking a single Li-Ion cell, either 26500 or 26650, and a P7... though I'd like to try a 2 Li-Ion cell incan mod... or maybe a setup with more cells if I go with a larger host.