Modding Surefire U2?

[021411]

Well maybe I should clarify. I won't be doing the modding myself. For the experts here, what is a good LED/reflector setup I should inquire about and with who? I shot milkyspit a PM but I assume he's a super busy guy to quickly respond. That's completely understandable. Any other reliable modders I should contact? I'm rarely in this section of the forum so I have no idea.

I'm basically looking at something that will provide excellent spill for room clearing abilities and also good throw for people/object spotting. I can go as low as 1-1.5 hrs of runtime on full bright on either 1x 18650 or 2x CR123A as I rarely keep the light on full time. I might at most do 2-3 min continuous on before shutting it off. This usually occurs during vehicle searches.
With that said, I love the wall of light the Malkoff M60W MC-E produces and the throw the Fenix TK30 (MC-E). Is there a compromise somewhere in there? Multi-LED setup?

The wall of light from the M60W MC-E

The throw/hotspot of the TK30 MC-E

Sorry for the million and one questions.

 

[gswitter]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

If you like the MC-E, maybe you should start with the U2 instead of the U2A? A number of members have swapped MC-E's into the U2 (the U2 can drive the MC-E harder than the U2A), and milkyspit has done quite a few of his U2x2 mods (initially 4x Rebels, but I imagine the XP-E and XP-G have created some new options). Both mods retain full functionality of the selector ring UI. You should be able to find quite a few threads on each mod.

 

[021411]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

I already own a U2A. Just trying to work with what I have. It doesn't have to be an MC-E.

 

[Justin Case]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

Well maybe I should clarify. I won't be doing the modding myself. For the experts here, what is a good LED/reflector setup I should inquire about and with who? I shot milkyspit a PM but I assume he's a super busy guy to quickly respond. That's completely understandable. Any other reliable modders I should contact? I'm rarely in this section of the forum so I have no idea.

I'm basically looking at something that will provide excellent spill for room clearing abilities and also good throw for people/object spotting. I can go as low as 1-1.5 hrs of runtime on full bright on either 1x 18650 or 2x CR123A as I rarely keep the light on full time. I might at most do 2-3 min continuous on before shutting it off. This usually occurs during vehicle searches.
With that said, I love the wall of light the Malkoff M60W MC-E produces and the throw the Fenix TK30 (MC-E). Is there a compromise somewhere in there? Multi-LED setup?

The wall of light from the M60W MC-E

The throw/hotspot of the TK30 MC-E

Sorry for the million and one questions.

How much spill do you really need? Is this for a deliberate clear of things like houses, schools, and office buildings? If so, then you don't need to light up such a huge volume of indoor space at one time. You can't possibly visually take all of that volume in and process it fast enough before the opponent zeros you. Probably better to slice the pie, use more deceptive lighting angles, and wall and ceiling bounce for indirect illumination. Larger volume structures like department stores and warehouses probably won't be amenable to bounced illumination. Oh well.

Flood-like spill and long throw are somewhat mutually exclusive.

Is the stock U2A beam sufficiently wide, but you just want more brightness in the spill and the hot spot?

The easiest mod is to upgrade the U2A with an XP-G. If you use an R5 flux bin, you could get about 320 emitter lumens, or maybe 200 OTF lumens.

Does your U2A accept 18650 cells? With the stock Seoul P4 LED, I doubt that a single Li-ion will run the light in regulation. If you install a low Vf LED, you might run in regulation for a while, but definitely not for the full capacity of the 18650 (or 17670). If you want to use rechargeables and run in regulation for the full capacity of the cells, your best bet is probably to use 2x16340s. You might even get 1hr run time on max brightness.

 

[021411]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

I still own the M60W MC-E and had it in my Z2 for a long time. I loved the wall of light it produced and I never had a problem with clearing rooms/homes/buildings with it. It was wide enough for my view and I never felt there were any dark spots. I was 100% comfortable with it. My patrol beat has everything from one bedroom apartments to multi-million dollar homes. You can imagine the space or lack there of to work with and clear or search.
The only downfall with all that spill was the lack of a hotspot and throw.
I recently switched to the U2A and found it missing a bit (at least for me and my usage) on the spill category. The throw is okay but it can ALWAYS be better as well. I need throw to look for people/objects and the occasional street sign on accidents. I do agree spill and throw are exclusive but a good compromise will do.

I have a boat load of CR123A's in my gear bag so I can go with that instead of LiIon.

I really need to get a hold of milkyspit and see what his U2by2 is all about.

 

[Justin Case]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

Not sure if the U2by2 has the throw you seem to be looking for. Check out these beam shots. The light doesn't seem to have much range past 15m.

What is your price range? The U2by2 price tag appears to be over $500. For that, you can buy a SureFire M6 off of the Marketplace, have an LED tower built, and have money left over. Or send the KT4 TH to LED Zeppelin to build you one of his M-Zeppelin M6 mods, for a total cost (M6 plus M-Zep mod) of around $600 (depends on what you pay for the M6).

 

[021411]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

Not sure if the U2by2 has the throw you seem to be looking for. Check out these beam shots. The light doesn't seem to have much range past 15m.

What is your price range? The U2by2 price tag appears to be over $500. For that, you can buy a SureFire M6 off of the Marketplace, have an LED tower built, and have money left over. Or send the KT4 TH to LED Zeppelin to build you one of his M-Zeppelin M6 mods, for a total cost (M6 plus M-Zep mod) of around $600 (depends on what you pay for the M6).

Darn, you're right about the U2by2's throw judging from the pictures.
I would love the M6 setup or even running the KT4 on a smaller body but it's just too big for my application. My belt lights are carried bezel down in a Comp-Tac holder. I've been running a bezel down setup (support side) for a long time now and I'm not going to change the orientation because of the muscle memory already established.

I honestly don't need a multi-LED setup. I'm open to anything that will produce what I'm looking for. Budget? $300 tops. That actually might be too conservative for certain modders.

 

[Justin Case]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

Here are the issues as I see them.

The U2A uses a reflector that is integral with the head. Thus, if you want/need a different reflector or want/need to use a big domed LED, then the stock reflector has to be drilled out. If you don't want to drill out the head, then a Cree MC-E or XP-G will fit in the stock reflector opening (there may be other emitters that will also fit, but I've not checked any others). The MC-E will need a shim to raise it to the proper focus height.

The U2A driver is unique, so if you want to keep the selector ring user interface, you are also probably stuck with the drive current of the stock buck driver (around 900mA). 900mA is too low IMO to drive a 4P MC-E hard enough to be worth it. Plus, the beam is probably going to be ugly. The drive current is ok for an XP-G R5. The stock reflector will produce an excellent beam with an XP-G. In my U2A XP-G-R4 mod, I got over a 40% increase in hot spot lux vs using the stock Seoul P4.

The voltage overhead to run in full regulation is just a little too high for 1x18650 operation. With my XP-G mod, the Vbatt to run in full regulation is around 3.9V-4.0V. So you'd run in full regulation for only part of the 18650's capacity. The driver runs fine on 2x123A, and also apparently with 2xAW16340 Li-ions.

 

[021411]

Re: Modding Surefire U2A?

Seriously. I'm an idiot. Title has been changed. Why in the world was I typing U2A? I bought it last year and all this time I thought I had the A model. hahahahahaha. Never bothered to look at the LED in detail until today. Just never did... So much for being a self proclaimed flashaholic.
Now the plans have changed. Maybe I do want the MC-E. It SHOULD be tons brighter.

 

[residue]

i've got an old u2 sitting in the milkylabs right now. my request was for a combination of flood and throw using the mc-e. i'm guessing you should be able to get what you want with the help of either a new reflector or optic. be patient with milky since he probably has a backlog of mods.

 

[Noctis]

Hmm, the Malkoff M61 comes to mind when someone says "both flood and throw". I wouldn't call it "flood", but the spill is pretty wide(just not bright enough to call it a "flood" in my books). Though it's a pity not every pocket-size Surefire has standardized heads or else you could just shove the M61 in there and call it a day.

I can imagine Milky being swamped with over 50 people asking him for mods(me being one), so it wouldn't be strange if it takes a week for a response.

You could shoot Nailbender a PM as I've heard he did some various other mods(putting an SST-50 in a Raidfire Spear or Dereelight DBS, various Maglite mods). I think he might stick you with an SST-50 rather than an MCE though. With an MCE, "throw" doesn't exactly come to mind, especially with such a small head.

Runtimes might suffer depending on how hard the LED is driven. Of course, a warm XPG might do the trick as well.

 

[Nitroz]

I love the MC-E U2, but it was a serious pain to mod. I crushed some of the body under the ring while heating and twisting the body apart and lost the highest mode. It is still much, much brighter.

 

[021411]

I have an M61 as well as a NB SST-90 drop-in. Without resorting to a full on wall of light, I love the spill of the SST-90. The hotspot is and nice and huge but there is hardly enough throw for my taste. The M61 is a good compromise but I wish the spill was a bit brighter and it threw just a bit further.

You can see my dilemma. I don't think I can win this battle. There is no such thing as a perfect light. :thinking:

I've done business with Scott before and know he can get backlogged. I shot him an email as well with what I had on my email address book. It hasn't been rejected so I'm hoping it's still good. I hate to pester people but I do want his business.

 

[021411]

Quick beamshots. It was hard to capture the tint and true nature of the light but you get the idea.

U2 Luxeon V

M61

NB SST-90 regulated

M60W MC-E

 

[Noctis]

I have an M61 as well as a NB SST-90 drop-in. Without resorting to a full on wall of light, I love the spill of the SST-90. The hotspot is and nice and huge but there is hardly enough throw for my taste. The M61 is a good compromise but I wish the spill was a bit brighter and it threw just a bit further.

You can see my dilemma. I don't think I can win this battle. There is no such thing as a perfect light. :thinking:

I've done business with Scott before and know he can get backlogged. I shot him an email as well with what I had on my email address book. It hasn't been rejected so I'm hoping it's still good. I hate to pester people but I do want his business.

Well you just have to understand the compromises. You could ask Gene to drive the XPG in his M61 to 1.5A and that might get you exactly what you want. The tradeoff would be more heat and less runtime.

I don't remember mentioning the SST-90 as it can't really throw for squat.

Also, looking at your beamshots, I'm a little suspicious about the performance of that SST-90. It just doesn't seem as bright as the M61, which puts a frown on my face. I'm thinking your tailcap switch isn't a McClicky which means there's a lot of unnecessary resistance. I'm also guessing you picked the OP reflector which eats up lumens and cripples throw.

NB SST-50 with a smooth reflector in my 6P has left me very happy overall. The spill isn't as big as the M61, but it's definitely brighter and seems to throw as far(probably harder to tell because of the huge hotspot).

Still, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. Something with a bright spill simply won't throw far. And anything that throws far(XRE w/optic) won't have much of a spill.

Maybe you could simply carry two lights? One for pure flood and the other as a thrower?

 

[021411]

The SST-90 I have is in a Solarforce L2P host. It has a SMO. I had NB send me both. I guess I'll have to settle for something midrange for belt carry. I still carry a bigger light that resides in the car until I need it (TK30).

Now I need to get a hold of a reputable modder.

 

[Justin Case]

I love the MC-E U2, but it was a serious pain to mod. I crushed some of the body under the ring while heating and twisting the body apart and lost the highest mode.

Open up the head again and check the Hall effect sensors. See this photo, for example. When you crushed part of the body, you may have moved one of the sensors far enough away from the embedded magnet in the selector ring such that the sensor doesn't see the required mag field strength (Bop) to turn on. If this is the case, see if you can bend the body back so that the appropriate Hall effect sensor is closer to the selector ring.

Another thing you can try is to get a small Nd-Fe-B magnet (e.g., from Lighthound) and hold it up to the light where the selector ring's magnet would be for the highest mode setting. Maybe a more powerful magnet will be able to exceed the mag field value of Bop required for turn-on. If that's the case, then you could dig out the stock magnet disc and glue in a more powerful replacement. See the 7th photo in this post.

 

[Nitroz]

I do need to try this, just need to get up the cohoneas to do it. It works now so I don't want to fry it. I think I am going to go for it though.

Thanks for the link.:thumbsup:

 

[Justin Case]

Maybe the first thing to do then is a simple visual examination. Is the last sensor farther away than the other ones? If so, then that could be the issue.

Next step, with minimal regret, is to try to bend the sensor closer, without messing with the crushed body (if that can be done).

If you can't get the magnet closer, then experiment with more powerful magnets that are the same size as the stock U2 magnet. If you can trigger high mode that way, then I'd say the final step would be to use that magnet instead of the stock magnet.

I also would be hesitant to try to bend the buckled area back out. Aluminum alloys are often unhappy with such large amplitude, cyclic actions and can develop cracks.