Motorcycle HID Bulb
- Thread starter Erich1B
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DM51
Flashaholic
I'll move this to Automotive, as the issues with HID conversions in motorcycles and cars are much the same.
Hilldweller
Enlightened
I don't think you'll find many proponents of what you're describing here.
Have you investigated the legal side of it?
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's not legal. It's not safe. It's not effective. See this article on danielsternlighting.com.
For an effective drop-in replacement H4 bulb, look here. It's legal. It's safe. It's effective.
Of course, make sure the headlight lens is clean and clear. A fogged, hazed, and crazed lens ruins the performance of your lighting system.
whirlwind
Newly Enlightened
Thought I was upgrading my visibility by going to a higher watt bulb from my dealership on a VTX1800. Worked great till the ignition switch was killed by thermal issues in the middle of a 1000 mile ride, three states away, on a holiday weekend...
Thanks Alaric, I appreciate the reply and information.
After reading your links, and FMVSS Standard No. 108, I've reconsidered my decision to replace the halogen bulb with an HID.
I'm glad I decided to post this question here, because I was able to get some good insight into problems with retrofitting HID bulbs in halogen designed applications.
Thanks............Erich
Hilldweller
Enlightened
Now ask us about some way-cool auxiliary lighting for the bike... 
Now ask us about some way-cool auxiliary lighting for the bike...
OK, I'm game. What would you suggest.............
Hilldweller
Enlightened
There's a guy on this forum that makes these:
http://martin-led.com/home.html
I don't know of anybody who's gotten a set yet but, I think they'd look incredible on a 109.
If anybody has negative feedback or if he's not in business anymore, the little VisionX Solstice cubes are about the most efficient little blazers going.
http://visionxsuperstore.com/SolsticeSoloS1100Series2InterlockingLEDLight.aspx
Then there's always HIDs of course...
From the website - Please note that these lights are NOT DOT approved and are meant for off-road use only.
So, wouldn't that be like retrofitting HID bulbs in a sense?
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
Clarification
"Auxiliary high-beam driving lights", or "fog lights"? The former is for high speeds with the high beam on; the latter for very low speeds with the low beam on, and in inclement weather.
I would suppose you're looking for the first one, right?
"Auxiliary high-beam driving lights", or "fog lights"? The former is for high speeds with the high beam on; the latter for very low speeds with the low beam on, and in inclement weather.
I would suppose you're looking for the first one, right?
Re: Clarification
Actually, I'm not really interested in auxiliary lights for my M109.
I did some reading on your bulb suggestion, and bought a pair of the Philips x-treme power 9003 headlamps. That should do fine.
Your initial response was very helpful, as I really didn't know about the concerns with retrofitting HID bulbs where they weren't originally intended.
Much appreciated. That's one of the reasons why I find this forum very helpful.
Actually, I'm not really interested in auxiliary lights for my M109.
I did some reading on your bulb suggestion, and bought a pair of the Philips x-treme power 9003 headlamps. That should do fine.
Your initial response was very helpful, as I really didn't know about the concerns with retrofitting HID bulbs where they weren't originally intended.
Much appreciated. That's one of the reasons why I find this forum very helpful.
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
65535
Flashlight Enthusiast
HID bulbs are NEVER to be used in a reflector or optic designed for Halogen bulbs.
Stop being an *** and get your facts straight. Go read up on DOT guidelines. For too many "ricers" and other losers out there with off color and incorrectly aimed lighting on their cars. Bunch of retards.
Stop being an *** and get your facts straight. Go read up on DOT guidelines. For too many "ricers" and other losers out there with off color and incorrectly aimed lighting on their cars. Bunch of retards.
rickypanecatyl
Enlightened
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I do care about being legal, effective (not just bright) and not blinding oncoming traffic and have a similar question as the OP.
I've got a dual sport motorcycle (KTM 690 enduro) that I ride both on and off road a bunch. I'm no expert but I have figured out that there is a huge difference between how bright a light is, and how much better it helps you see. For example I took the stock 60 watt bulb and replaced it with a 130/80 watt bulb (low beam was stronger than high beam). When on high beam it often would reflect back to me off of signs, light colored rocks etc and wreck my night vision. Without question, 60 watts WITH your night vision intact is better than 130 watts with your pupils shrunk.
I often ride my bike in 3rd world countries with no painted lines on the side of the road (its amazing how much those help) and large animals crossing the road which can be real dangerous. A limitation with my bike is my alternator. The 130 watt bulb was too much for my system - I'm thinking 100 watts is all I have juice for...
A guy on one of my biking forums (never met him or been able to try his bike out at night) is real excited about bi-Xenon projector beams. I think he got his from an Audi A6. I've been thinking of trying that in my bike - it require a bit of work in regards to modifying the fairing around the light. I don't know much about Bi Xenon - he describes it as a HID high beam that when you have oncoming traffic it has a plate cut off the high right side (or left side in America) of the beam.
Any thougths on the BiXenon's beams? 2nd question - is being blinded by the reflection of your own lights because the light is too white or hot? Would it help to have a cooler beam? I'm sure the biggest factor is the shape of the reflector....
I've got a dual sport motorcycle (KTM 690 enduro) that I ride both on and off road a bunch. I'm no expert but I have figured out that there is a huge difference between how bright a light is, and how much better it helps you see. For example I took the stock 60 watt bulb and replaced it with a 130/80 watt bulb (low beam was stronger than high beam). When on high beam it often would reflect back to me off of signs, light colored rocks etc and wreck my night vision. Without question, 60 watts WITH your night vision intact is better than 130 watts with your pupils shrunk.
I often ride my bike in 3rd world countries with no painted lines on the side of the road (its amazing how much those help) and large animals crossing the road which can be real dangerous. A limitation with my bike is my alternator. The 130 watt bulb was too much for my system - I'm thinking 100 watts is all I have juice for...
A guy on one of my biking forums (never met him or been able to try his bike out at night) is real excited about bi-Xenon projector beams. I think he got his from an Audi A6. I've been thinking of trying that in my bike - it require a bit of work in regards to modifying the fairing around the light. I don't know much about Bi Xenon - he describes it as a HID high beam that when you have oncoming traffic it has a plate cut off the high right side (or left side in America) of the beam.
Any thougths on the BiXenon's beams? 2nd question - is being blinded by the reflection of your own lights because the light is too white or hot? Would it help to have a cooler beam? I'm sure the biggest factor is the shape of the reflector....
You do realize that you leave yourself open to legal actions if you modify your stock headlights, right? Even if it was obviously not your fault, the other party could possibly sue you, citing your illegally modified headlights as a root cause of the entire situation.
Stop being an asshat and get some correct bulbs for your bike.
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's one crazy bulb! I'm surprised your wiring didn't take issue with that.
Night driving vision is "mesopic", which means it is in that range between photopic (normal lighting conditions) and scotopic ("night" or very dark conditions). With too bright a bulb, it takes you out of mesopic and into the photopic realm, or at least temporarily. Your night vision gets messed up, to put it plainly. It's no wonder the low beam is that high, it has to replicate the dazzling you're getting from the 80W high beam, so that on low beam you still think you're seeing well.
Now, if we could just get people to stay in between those lines! Even over here, deer can be a problem, as sometimes fences aren't quite high enough or they find breaks to go through.
It probably caused a voltage sag in the wiring to the light itself, and it may not have run at full intensity due to that. It cheats the ignition system of energy and makes the engine have to work harder just to run the alternator. Kindof a loss all around.
That would certainly be an immense project to do it correctly, and is beyond my education and training to suggest how to do it well. I know there are plenty of WRONG ways to do it, though.
White is white; you're blinding yourself from just too much light. A lower color temperature ('warmer' light) generates less irritation glare. You want to stay in the 4200-4300 range, and avoid anything that discusses "whiter, crisper light" (potato chips are crisp, not light).
It seems that the KTM690 uses the H4 bulb, just like the OP's. My recommendation to you is the same as to him, the Philips X-Treme Power. There is also this as an option. I'm hesitant to suggest overwattage bulbs, though, because I don't know if your wiring can really handle it or if the reflector is designed well enough to not be a glare monster with any bulb, let alone one of the higher wattage bulbs.
rickypanecatyl
Enlightened
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- Nov 2, 2009
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- 915
Thanks for the thoughts Alaric! I hadn't heard an acutal # put to that before such as 42-4300 K range but it makes sense.
I'm hoping using the Audi A6 biXenon's isn't too complicated as I'm assuming Audi has done all the homework in matching the bulb to the reflector and my job is to simply make an adjustable mounting system for it. (Motorcycles have to be easily adjustable as riding w/w/out a passenger, baggage makes a huge difference.)
KLow - I too disagree with your suggestions to the OP of just getting HID's. So many of my biker friends waste money on HID kits. Many HID kits try to overcome horrible reflecors with sheer lumens. It's complicated ... if you have too much of your light focussed right in front of the bike it wrecks your night vision for seeing farther down the road/trail. A reflector has to be able to put the majority of the lumens well down the road but with some right in front of you to work in conjunction with your night vision. If you make up for a crappy reflector with sheer power then on the road your not able "to see" any better than a guy with a lower power, but properly functioning light but you are wrecking the night vision of all oncoming traffic. No you probably wouldn't be caught if you contributed to an accident because of your blinding lights, but you gotta be a real sicko for that to not bother you. Even if all your thinking of is yourself though, you are still wasting money if your high power HID in an unsuitable reflector has just enough power to compensate for the bad reflector and let you see as well.
When I think of what I want in a head light, I know I am NOT looking for what surefire often claims: "Able to temporarily blind/disorient a would be attacker." I'm not saying that's not a valid role for some lights, but its not the same as helping you see better.
FWIW I do think there are times when the law and safety contradict and in such a case I'll deferr to safety. I know on my KTM690 the tail lights are pretty bright LED's and do a good job of making you seen for how small it is. Right before they delivered that bike to the US, for some reason the DOT wouldn't allow the LED tail light and so KTM hastily put together a poor quality tail light that passed. It's not near as bright or safe but its legal. I've seen them both side by side, and w/out question the smaller LED doesn't bother someone behind, yet is much more visible.
DM51
Flashaholic
tay
Enlightened
It takes a hands-on attitude, but it's definitely doable. The projectors are pretty much good to go as is, and you just need to make a housing that is adjustable, and is waterproof, and is resistant to rock chips, dirt, etc.
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