Moving machinery around (and thoughts on my lathe choices?)

[Th232]

Been thinking about getting a mill and a lathe set up, and one of the main considerations is moving it all into place. Unfortunately, I don't have a garage to use (it's got something called a car in it, go figure... :roll: ), what'll most likely be the workshop is a room around the back of the house. First problem I hit is that there's a space restriction, anything going in must be able to fit through a gate 90 cm wide. To compound that, the path is on an incline, fortunately no steps, just a slope downwards. If it were flat, then a trolley or a series of pipes would probably be fine, but the incline poses a bit of a problem.

First bit I'm thinking of is a lathe. Was thinking of this:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L141

Packing info (L x W x H): 137 x 73 x 73 cm
280 kg.

But then the bargain hunter in me is starting to cause trouble. There's also this one:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L682D

Packing info (L x W x H): 168 X 75 X 108 cm
590 kg... :?

I only looked through it at first because I was going through the whole catalogue, first thought was "too much $$$", but then I looked closer (I have a tendency to read everything). What makes it tempting is all the extras that come as standard, I count a DRO, stand, coolant pump, quick change toolpost and 4 holders included in that.

If I kit out option 1 with all the stuff the second one has, it comes out to be $170 cheaper, but option 2 can take considerably larger jobs (900 mm vs 600 mm), and with a motor that's 2 hp instead of 1 hp. Knowing me, I have this vague feeling that I'll eventually be getting most of those accessories in the end, so I might as well get it over and done with. Suspect the DRO would be near the top of the list, blind boring Ti was a real pain last time I did it at a friend's place, I'm glad I have spare material. Expensive mistake, in both time and materials, would prefer not to repeat it.

On the other side, there's the bit in my head saying (probably correctly) that I can't see myself doing 3 foot jobs, and that the power difference will only mean that I spend a bit more time at the lathe. Frankly, I'd still go for the larger lathe though.

So the only thing that's really standing in my way (aside from needing to save up) is that I can't see any way of moving it down the path and not have it end up on top of someone or in the valley behind the house.

Any ideas on how to safely move nearly 600 kg down an incline (and probably up it in the future)? Or any thoughts about my lathe choices?

 

[GreyShark]

I've done metalwork of one kind or another for most of my life but only recently got interested in a lathe. In fact the lathe I ordered hasn't even arrived yet. With that said...

My workshop has a not too sturdy plywood floor and that isn't going to change until I build my new house in a couple years. That, and the need to negotiate stairs and a narrow doorway, automatically limited the maximum size of the machine I could get into my workshop. I'd like to do big projects on a big lathe but since that won't happen for a while I decided to start with doing small projects on a small lathe. When I build the new house I'll have a custom concrete floored workshop so I'll be able to get a larger machine. Then, having two machines, I can set them up for different operations and boost my overall efficiency. Tooling is more expensive than the machines anyway.

This one seems to be similar to what I bought,

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L148#specs

As far as moving any heavy equipment goes, you'll probably need a little rope and a lot of friends.

 

[Chodes]

I think I know about as little as there is to know about lathes!
I've just started considering a bench lathe.

I noticed this though "38mm spindle bore" and I'm already jealous.

 

[Th232]

Yeah, I've slowly coming to the conclusion that I'll probably have to hire someone if I'm going for the larger one. If that screws up, they bought it! I suppose that at least the smaller one has the 38mm spindle bore as well, which was pretty much a key requirement for me.

How much practical difference is there between a 1 hp and a 2hp motor?

 

[precisionworks]

I can't see any way of moving it down the path and not have it end up on top of someone or in the valley behind the house.

Control the movement with a block & tackle arrangement, or hire a tow truck with a cable winch which is even easier. Getting it down to the shop is a piece of cake, getting it back out is harder :nana:

 

[precisionworks]

How much practical difference is there between a 1 hp and a 2hp motor?

The 2 hp motor has twice the torque of the 1 hp motor, and torque limits both depth of cut (DOC) as well as feed. The larger motor allows a greater DOC, faster feed, and gets any job done in less time with less strain on the motor.

Buying the larger machine is the correct decision, 99% of the time.

 

[KC2IXE]

Genarally, I think down is actually just as hard, if not harder to do SAFELY than "up"

Going up, you tend to thing more, and DON'T rely on gravity, so you get no momentum going

Going down, people have a tendency to have just enough load control to slow things down/stop the load if it doesn't get out of control. You really need enough gear to LIFT the load if need be

(I spent way way too much time rigging stuff at one time)

 

[Torque1st]

A regular power pull or cable winch will do the job for both up and down hill.

http://www.maasdam.com/

With a tripod hoist, skids, and chains you can even go up and down stairs.

 

[65535]

You guys have more brass than I do, I don't think I'd even bother, but if I did I would overkill my winch and tackle. Last thing I want is my machinery to move on it's own. Stay safe. When all else fails duck for cover.

 

[KC2IXE]

Like I said, for ME, it's NOT that big a deal, but then again, I worked as a "iron wroker" - rigging crane systems into places that well, didn't have cranes (duh)

The basics of rigging are the same - now, do I know enough to say have a riggers license? Nope. There are a LOT of techniques where they learn to rig with just block and tackle and knots where I'd be WAY over my head, thank you very much

The first thing you learn - never allow a person/part of a person/anything you care about under the load.

You eventually learn that with cribbing (aka BIG chunks of wood), a host, some jacks, some pry bars, a big hammer and the like, things can be moved - safely. It's really a matter of thinking "if things were to go wrong - RIGHT now, what would happen?" and planning to make sure it WON'T go wrong

 

[BoarHunter]

I noticed you picked up an imperial lathe ?
For which reason ?

 

[Th232]

The leadscrew was imperial, but comes fitted for metric (and thread chasing dial is apparently metric only), with the required stuff for changing over to imperial.

Or is there something else that I've missed?

 

[BoarHunter]

The leadscrew was imperial, but comes fitted for metric (and thread chasing dial is apparently metric only), with the required stuff for changing over to imperial.

Or is there something else that I've missed?

You should get it 100% metric, lead screw of course !
Far easier to turn metric thread and most of them without any probleme to disengage the leadscrew !
Refer to the posts regarding threading ! Uselees compication with inch pitch that are anyway fast disappearing !
No modern companies design in inch anymore, and none outside of the US !

 

[gadget_lover]

You should get it 100% metric, lead screw of course !
Far easier to turn metric thread

In fact, there is nothing intrinsically easier about metric threads. The math may be a little simpler, but if you have to calculate a number and you use charts or a calculator, one formula is about the same as any other.

The ISO metric thread is exactly the same profile as the UNC thread. Both imperial and ISO allow for a fine and coarse pitch based on the needs of the equipment.

Because the threads are the same profile, you have the same issues about proper use of the thread dial, cutting to shoulders, etc.


Daniel

 

[BoarHunter]

In fact, there is nothing intrinsically easier about metric threads. The math may be a little simpler, but if you have to calculate a number and you use charts or a calculator, one formula is about the same as any other.

The ISO metric thread is exactly the same profile as the UNC thread. Both imperial and ISO allow for a fine and coarse pitch based on the needs of the equipment.

Because the threads are the same profile, you have the same issues about proper use of the thread dial, cutting to shoulders, etc.


Daniel

For general purpose UNC is too coarse, can't stand vibration (a real pain!), UNF is too fine but mainly, nobody use these standards outside of the US (and a few stuborn companies in Canada). It is unecessary to have multiple standards which lead to extra costs, different tooling, design errors etc...
The worst case beeing some US companies mixing the two as they have to use subcomponents built in metric ! A pain for maintenance !
UNC and UNF are going the way of Witworth ! And the rest too, you can't compete in a global economy if you stay behind and persist in using obsolete, confusing standards.

 

[modamag]

What kind of incline are we talking about for your backyard?
600 kg is not all that bad in term of weight.

We've moved a similarly weight Logan lathe across 40m of hilly grass. The hardest part is not the incline but the soft grassy terrain.

I recommend you borrow or rent a tractor and hook it up to a small trailer where your lathe will sit. It will save you hours of work.

Now if you want to do this the hard way you can go with the following:
- 3 sheets of plywood
- furniture dolly
- winch
- some rope

Use the plywood to provide the steady base for your dolly to roll on and winch your way accross the yard. It's a long tedious task but 1-2 ppl can do it. The benefit is you will be able to use that winch for other stuff you buy in the future.

Cheer Mate,
Jonathan

 

[Fred S]

You can move an amazing amount of weight across grass if you put a piece of formica on the bottom of a piece of plywood and then bolt your load to the plywood. We moved a 60 gun safe (maybe 800 lbs?) 30 yards with the plywood/formica combo and a little come-a-long.

 

[Clark]

I helped get a big gun safe into the basement of a split level entry home.

We got his big truck in the front yard, tied a rope around the safe and hitched it the the truck. When the truck moved slowly toward the house, the safe was lowered by sliding down the stairs.

I put 1000 pound machines in my shop on casters and roll them around.
There is a tiny slope to the floor, so sometimes I have to chalk the wheels.
I make a wedge of wood, with a loop of duck tape, I fix it to a spot on the floor.

 

[KC2IXE]

My burke millrite went down a 27 inch wide steep staircase - no problems

 

[Th232]

Thanks for the info guys.

Modamag, the incline is about 15 degs, mostly over concrete pavers. Kind of bendy as well. Main problem with a tractor is that this place is really space limited, esp. the 90 cm wide gate I mentioned earlier. For the rest of the path, it probably maxes out at 1.2 metres as the path is down the side of the house.

Thanks for the info guys, more options to consider!