Multi Bulb fixture search

[nerys]

Hope this is OK to post here. you guys are the only "real" led forum I am aware of

I am converting my home to LED as close to 100% as I can get. I am at 50-60% now.

one of my last real difficulties in design not price is the hallways. Cosmetics are important here I can't just shove a 4 or 6 bulb vanity fixture on the ceiling. would not look right.

what I need is this. a fixture like this

but I need it to hold "FOUR" bulbs. I can not produce enough light affordably or efficiently enough with 2 bulbs and even 3 is pushing it (though I will take 3 if i have too)

THERE ARE FOUR BULBS!!!

seeking a fixture like that that will hold 4 E27 bulbs of normal size (or more)

would love to have a GAP as well for heat dissipation but I am using 1 watt and 2 watt bulbs for this so heat won't be too much an issue in this application so i am not picky.

just need fixtures like this that hold more than 2 bulbs.

any ideas?

 

[Norm]

Moved to: Fixed Lighting.
Norm

 

[idleprocess]

As fond as I am of LED's, LED bulbs are generally a compromise solution. Stuff 2 or more into a flushmount fixture and the heat has nowhere to go.

If you need to generate that much light affordably, a linear T8 or T5 floro fixture is going to be the most cost-effective solution, hands-down. The tubes last for tens of thousands of hours, are stupidly efficient, and are available in a wide variety of spectrum/color temperatures.

If you're truly set on a LED fixture, you're likely to get better results building your own fixture for that level of output, but that's not easy to do when aesthetics really matter nor is it an inexpensive proposition.

 

[nerys]

the way I do LED's is a compromise between amount of bulbs and the cost of bulbs. the T5 T8 units take too much power cost too much and produce way more light than I need.

I only need 3 or 4 watts of LED light. 4 .9 watt LED bulbs will produce more lumens cost less and produce less heat than a single 4watt LED.

I also have to compromise with aesthetics. in the bathroom we are used to vanity fixtures. in the kitchen its a little odd having a 12 bulb (2 6 bulb) vanity array but its "more interesting" than the twin 4ft FL fixture.

the family is dead set though they want the normal dome style lights in the foyer and hallway and I agree.

3.6 watts of LED in 4 separate bulbs .9watt each are NOT going to overheat inside that unit. now 4 5watt beasts in their yeah heat would be a problem but thats way overkill.

right now I am running 2 2watt bulbs in the upstairs fixture (not "quite" bright enough) so 3 2 watt or 1 watt bulbs should do it for just that extra 50/100 lumens to make it "good enough"

the more watts the led consumes the less efficient it is per watt. these units are putting out 80+ lumens per watt which is nice. most of the over 3 watt bulbs (that I can afford) claim 70/watt but are probably more like 55/60 per watt

also non "ultra" high power led do not work well as "point sources" you really need to ARRAY the light. ie either multiple bulbs around the room or at minimum multiple directions since the light tends to be VERY directional.

so I am trying to find more normal light fixtures that will let me use "more" bulbs.

 

[deadrx7conv]

Best bet is to just buy an ac to dc LED driver and mount some led stars inside that fixture. Another option is several Acriche LEDs that run on AC.

I've seen 4-light fixtures at the local hardware store. Might be a good idea to walk through lowesdepot and see what they have.

If double 2w bulbs don't cut it, and they're tucked into your fixture, break the globe off them and you'll free up some lumen. Another option is simply use double 3w bulbs which should not have a heat problem.

Which 2w bulbs are you using?

 

[nerys]

I have two bulbs I love right now as they are proving extremely reliable with a nice warm color (hate the cold blue color)

GE 2.0 and 2.8 watt warm white bulbs from Sam's Club. and little fiet .9 to 1.1 watt LED bulbs from walmart. $15 for 2 at sam's and $7 a pop at walmart.

when I find a new bulb I buy 2. I plug them in and I leave them on for 2 months straight before I will even think of buying another. any change in color or luminosity and I move along.

I LOVED the 1.5 watt Lights of America bulbs. they used more "normal" led instead of SMT's and were $15 for a 3 pack problem is 50% failure rate and it looks like the rest are dying 4 years later Grrr. its not the LED dying its the CRAP core they have inside. I hate it when they are cheap for something that will literally add 2 cents to the cost of the bulb. gorgeous bulbs but I swear OFF light of america.

I an eyeing some nice 3 watt DIMMABLE's on ebay for $14 a pop. (one room needs dimmable) apparently its got circuitry to make it conventional dimmer compatible.

I also have some REALLY nice "flush" recessed 1watters coming from china via deal extreme for $6.30 a pop. got 2 to "try them out" (sometimes DX china stuff can be REALLY hnky in quality

if they work out I plan to test them lighting the hallway down the basement. 5 of them "spread along" the hallway should light it plenty and only consume 5 watts.

if that works out I COULD go that route in the upstairs and first floor hallways. IF they prove reliable. don't want to run that kind of wiring and put those kinds of holes in the ceiling unless its going to last

in theory a PROPERLY driven LED with a focus on arrays instead of point source illumination should OUTLIVE any person alive today. 70-80 years should be EASY. the problem is they either use truly CRAP components and some resistor or cap gives out first OR they over drive them.

I got these amazing tubes on ebay 192 LED's 12 watts AMAZING light for $14-$20 a pop. for about 2 weeks in the summer then the 160' inside the tube FRIES them

I connected them to a variac and lowered the voltage till they stopped over heating (no more than +5' ambient) and now they are 7+ years old no failures and even the ones that half failed (started to change to blue) have ceased any further degradation.

I had to double the amount of them to retain the lumens but now they consume 4 watts a pop instead of 12 even doubled thats only 8 watts a 4 watt savings per location for the SAME light.

I tried talking to the guy to LOWER the power output but he could not seem to grasp that you don't make LED brighter with more power. you make it brighter by ADDING MORE LED's

he sealed the ZERO heatsink 192 led array in a poly carb tube. that is LED DEATH at full rated current. full rated current ASSUMES adequate cooling (typically 9cm/2 per watt consumed of passive surface area) My room has 4 sides so I mounted 2 tubes "at the ceiling corner" in the middle of each side of the room. greatly reduces shadows and gives the room VERY MUCH a "day light" feel to it. got to get them required (damaged the wiring one day never got around to fixing it mostly because the 5watt bulb I use in the center is usually "enough" light for my needs.

the BEST led's I ever had are I think almost 10 years old with well over 30,000 hours on them. these 5 watt bulb half clear dome half solid heat sink MAN those things rock (will get a pic online later) they were $25 a pop sometimes I got them for $12 a pop but now they are hard to find. pity. GREAT bulb. probably why they stopped making them. Not profitable enough lasted too long.

if your interested I will try to dig up links to the LED's that so far have "passed muster". I don't do individual emitters and drivers. My goal is to show this is feasible for the AVERAGE person. that means E27 bulbs and "some" recessed lighting (equivalent in work to installing a "hat light" so thats ok too.) and an ROI meaasured in a few years not decades.

if I start going "custom" I alienate the general population.

 

[LEDninja]

one of my last real difficulties in design not price is the hallways. Cosmetics are important here I can't just shove a 4 or 6 bulb vanity fixture on the ceiling. would not look right.

what I need is this. a fixture like this

but I need it to hold "FOUR" bulbs. I can not produce enough light affordably or efficiently enough with 2 bulbs and even 3 is pushing it (though I will take 3 if i have too)

any ideas?

All the LED bulbs I got from PROPER SOURCES WITH UL OR CSA LISTING say NOT FOR ENCLOSED FIXTURES.
Bulbs from DX do not and from ebay are rarely tested by UL, CSA or ETL to make sure they meet minimum North American safety standards.
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If you get ventilated fixtures you can go with 2 more powerful bulbs rather than 4 dinky ones.
The dome in your picture is considered FFLUSH MOUNT
Domes with a gap to the ceiling are listed under SEMI FLUSH MOUNT LIGHTING
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Have you considered Chandeliers, Track Lighting, Pendant Lighting with open tops.
I have a 2 watt bulb in the hallway running 24/7. The fixture has a closed top and the bulb lasted 1 year 10 months (15,000 hours instead of the rated 20,000)

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The other option is to use super efficient bulbs with a great big heatsink. LEDnovation has a 3.65 watt 106 lumens/watt 385 lumen with a 7 watt heatsink.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?306185-LEDnovation-A19-Bulb-101lm-watt!
http://www.lednovation.com/products/A19_LED.html

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I have two bulbs I love right now as they are proving extremely reliable with a nice warm color (hate the cold blue color)

GE 2.0 and 2.8 watt warm white bulbs from Sam's Club. and little fiet .9 to 1.1 watt LED bulbs from walmart. $15 for 2 at sam's and $7 a pop at walmart.

I LOVED the 1.5 watt Lights of America bulbs. they used more "normal" led instead of SMT's and were $15 for a 3 pack problem is 50% failure rate and it looks like the rest are dying 4 years later Grrr. its not the LED dying its the CRAP core they have inside. I hate it when they are cheap for something that will literally add 2 cents to the cost of the bulb. gorgeous bulbs but I swear OFF light of america.

I an eyeing some nice 3 watt DIMMABLE's on ebay for $14 a pop. (one room needs dimmable) apparently its got circuitry to make it conventional dimmer compatible.

You are looking at wimpy output bulbs. Maybe equivalent to a 15W or less.
Good reasonable output bulbs (400 to 800 lumens, 40 or 60W equivalent) are now available at reasonable prices AT LOCAL STORES.

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I an eyeing some nice 3 watt DIMMABLE's on ebay for $14 a pop. (one room needs dimmable) apparently its got circuitry to make it conventional dimmer compatible.

Most of the NEW LED bulbs available this year are dimmible.

-----

I also have some REALLY nice "flush" recessed 1watters coming from china via deal extreme for $6.30 a pop. got 2 to "try them out" (sometimes DX china stuff can be REALLY hnky in quality

IF they prove reliable. don't want to run that kind of wiring and put those kinds of holes in the ceiling unless its going to last

You are spending a fortune on wiring and fixtures to be able to use cheap dim bulbs.
Buy proper output bulbs and you cut your fixtures in half.

----

the BEST led's I ever had are I think almost 10 years old with well over 30,000 hours on them. these 5 watt bulb half clear dome half solid heat sink MAN those things rock (will get a pic online later) they were $25 a pop sometimes I got them for $12 a pop but now they are hard to find. pity. GREAT bulb. probably why they stopped making them. Not profitable enough lasted too long.

You can get good bulbs 10 years ago for $12? They are $49 to $99 back then.
The bulb you got don't happen to be this?
Warm white equivalents to that bulb are now under $20 at Lowes and Home Depot.

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if your interested I will try to dig up links to the LED's that so far have "passed muster". I don't do individual emitters and drivers. My goal is to show this is feasible for the AVERAGE person. that means E27 bulbs and "some" recessed lighting (equivalent in work to installing a "hat light" so thats ok too.) and an ROI meaasured in a few years not decades.

Please do.
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There has been a major change in the affordable reasonable brightness LED bulbs at the major hardware stores this year.
I bought Philips 7W 155 lumens last year. CAD$40.
I bought Philips 8W 410 lumens this year. CAD$25.
Philips 9W 470 lumens currently in Home Depot Canada's catalog. CAD$25.
All 3 are listed as 40W equivalent!!!
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The online stores are still selling out of date bulbs from last year. For once it does not pay to shop online. You are most likely to get the dimmer bulbs.
And stay away from the Hong Kong/China online/ebay sites. NONE of their bulbs have the UL/CSA/ETA listing that they meet minimum North American safety standards. A badly built flashlight simply does not work. A badly designed or built fixed lighting bulb can burn down your house. And a lot of those bulbs are 5000°K cool white to 6500° cold white.
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Here are my links gleaned from this subforum plus personal experience.

At the $10-25 range you get incandescent 40W (CFL 9-11W) equivalents.
Your 1 and 2 watters are probably 80 lumens warm white.
Your 5 watt is probably 250 lumens warm white or 300 lumens cool white.
These bulbs are 400+ lumens, about 5 of your dinky bulbs or 1.5X your 5 watt.
Instead of looking for a fixture to hold 4 wimpy bulbs you can match the brightness with just one bulb. (I would get a 2 bulb semi flush mount fixture and run 2 of these. 400 lumens is not that much light whether 4*2W or 1*8W)

-Finally! A decent LED bulb for $10 (review) 7.5 watts, 430 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?313596-Finally!-A-decent-LED-bulb-for-10-(review)
http://www.lowes.com:80/pd_338802-7...&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=led+bulb&facetInfo=
The $10 sale seem to have ended. Back up to $19. But read the reviews before you decide they are too expensive. About a quarter claim they are closer to 60W than 40W.

-EcoSmart A-19 40 watt LED (<$20 Home Depot) 8.6W 429 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?284926-EcoSmart-40-watt-LED

-Zetalux 2 standard (~$20 Earthled.com) 6W 300 lumens.
-Zetalux 2 pro (~$35 Earthled.com) 7W 450 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?307285-Zetalux-2-standard-and-pro

At the $40 range you get 60W (CFL 13-15W) equivalents.

-Philips 12w Teardown (~CAD$40 Home Depot Canada) 12W 800 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308557-Philips-12w-Teardown

-New EcoSmart 60 watt equivelent A-19 LED bulbs
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...uivelent-A-19-LED-bulbs-75-watt-R30-eqivelent

 

[nerys]

Homedepot has a similar bulb for $19 (I see now you listed it). while nice I am not impressed. the lumens per watt is pretty low (lower than CFL) and its rather expensive.

YES I was getting GOOD bulbs for $12-$20 a pop almost 10 years ago. its called pulling out the sniper rifle and late nights on ebay

No that bulb is not it. I saw that bulb once and dismissed it as junk (inadequate heatsink if its even a real heatsink)

anything less than 70 lumens per watt I tend to avoid as not worth it. I am spending darned near NOTHING on fixtures and wiring. I am one VERY CHEAP SOB. when your downright moneyless you get very good at being CHEAP

those dinky bulbs will OUTLAST your expensive bulbs and produce the same light or close to it.

4 of them will give me nearly 300 lumens. MORE than enough for a hall way fixture. also by spreading the lights out you increase the "perceived" lumens quite a bit to the eye. that's also why I tend to try and go "bare" fixture so I don't waste lumens blasting the inside of a fixture.

That Phillips bulb? 12 watts 800 lumens. $40. your paying 5 cents per lumen which is cheaper than my 9 cents a lumen but you get less USABLE light per lumen and a bulb that WILL NOT last 20,000 hours.

Besides the kitchen I have yet to NEED that many lumens in a room. I run each bathroom on 9 watts. I had to cut that back to 5 bulbs or 7.5 watts because family complained it was "too bright" with 6.

you should see how bright my front door step is with just THREE of them. so for $21 for 3 lights and $3 (clearance at walmart) for the 3 bulb vanity fixture and $2 in "foam" to seat the fixture to the ceiling in the outside doorway I get more than TWICE the amount of light I had before with 2 13watt CFL's

We run it usually around 8-10 hours a night many times all night so figure average 10 hours (trying to think of a way to automate it but so far every way I come up with ACTUALLY consumes more power than just leaving the bulbs on 24/7

the CFL cost $1.25 a month to run or $14.97 a year so $15.

the LED's cost $1.55 PER YEAR to run saving me $13.45 a year meaning 100% ROI in 2 years. not bad at all. an ROI of 4 years is good this is 2.

I will consider them a failure if they do not last at least 12 years.

I think I paid $4 shipped each for the 5 bulb vanity fixtures in the bathrooms and $6 a pop shipped for the 6 bulb fixtures in the kitchen.

$40 is a LOT for a bulb to me. its why I don't have any of those. Can't afford them. especially with their VERY short rated lifespans.

that BETTER than 100 lumen per watt bulb is fascinating. I wonder how reliable the measurements are. but if that bulb can't hack it for 50,000 hours or more then its not likely worth it. and how much is it? (did not see a price listed)

One of the reasons I use so many. For example in the kitchen as you know I am using 6 2 watt bulbs. I have enough sockets for 12 of them. once I have the cash I will install the other 6 and then variac the power till they are 1/2 current brightness IE same brightness as 6 at full power.

they will last far far far longer this way. its possible to extend their lifespan essentially to infinity (IE longer than our lifespan) if the other components can "hack it" that long.

Here is the really nice bulb I have (I have 4 of them) they are 5 watts warm white I paid anywhere from $12 to $25 a pop for them)

the only one I have that has NEVER burned out yet. at least 2 of them have in excess of 30,000 hours of burn time on them already and they do not appear any dimmer or any change in color to date.

here are some bad pictures of it - sadly I CAN NOT find these bulbs any longer. I would swear its because they are "too good" so not profitable enough to keep making.

I wish I could get more of these. They are NOT the greatest for lumens per watt (got these before I really understood what lumen where) but for lower power bright enough long lasting applications they are #1 in my book.

Heck most of those bulbs you linked too (even updated ones) do not or barely exceed 50 lumens a watt. would be cheaper to run the $1 CFL I get from dollar tree (TRULY good CFL's by the way !! they DO appear to be holding up to their 12,000 hours life rating or close to it and a very nice warm white light too)

 

[deadrx7conv]

Not everyone is looking for mega lumen. Seems that the OP wants the most efficient lower wattage LED bulbs. And, I agree with the perceived-output being pretty good compared to the bulbs that brainwash us by marketing. The OP isn't the only one that has found out that 4 1w bulbs works better than 1 4w bulb.

ebay is full of 2w and 3w 110v e27 led bulbs. IMO, the quad bulb fixtures are huge and ugly. You'll just have to bump up the wattage a little. If 2x2w-bulbs don't cut it, definitely try the 2x3w bulbs. To find a pretty 4xbulb fixture is impossible. 3xbulb(15") and 2xbulb(12-13") fixtures are similar. But the 4x fixture is huge.

I find dealextreme/madeinchina/kaidomain/dinodirect.... sometimes cheaper than ebay for certain things.

Homedepot/ace/lowes/target/walmart/.... should have something like this. You get '5' bulbs locations. 2x standard internal and 3x external GU10/MR16??? bulbs: Find a bunch of 1/2-1w bulbs and you're good to go.

 

[nerys]

well my next step is to CUSTOM make one. won't be THAT hard but I always prefer to find "off the shelf" to make it easier to suggest to other people. as soon as you start saying I had to build this design that it gets harder to "sell" the idea.

what I will do is mount 4 lamp fixtures to the metal base plate. then install 4 clear rubber "bumpers" to force a 1/2 in GAP between the fixture and the plate. done. now not only do I have 4 bulb sockets but they are all pointed DOWN where they can do the most work.

to me the newest mega bright phillips bulb is a RIP OFF. sure it makes the same lumens as a 13watt CFL but it consumed 12 watts doing so and has almost the EXACT same lifespan (12,000 versus 15,000 hours) and for 60 TIMES the price.

ie you could buy a $1 CFL and get the SAME lumens and last almost as long as the LED. to me thats a rip off considering its a $60 bulb.

the only reason LED work for me is #1 they cost less to run #2 they last LONGER so that over time you save MONEY.

my motto us simple. Greener is Cheaper. if its not cheaper its NOT greener. period.

that phillips won't save you a single dime in fact it will COST you $59 more than the CFL PLUS tax on that $59 (Versus $1.06 for the CFL)

I LIKE bright light. when I WANT bright light I turn on my 8 LED tubes. thats 1536 LED's that consume a total of 32 watts (I run them at 89volts using a variac) I used to use twin 150/300 watt halogens. so 10 to 20 times more power for LESS LIGHT. (those LED tubes cost me $80 they are 7+ years old still going strong)

when I do not NEED that much light I used the 4.6 watt fixture in my ceiling fan (changed it from 4x tulip to single "ball" for best light distribution.)

that fixture is interesting even if a bit over the top I will have to check home depot for it.

the other advantage of mega low watt LED bulbs? harder to screw them up and over drive them.

IE does not take nearly as much material or effort to dissipate .72 watts of heat in 4 separate bulbs as it does to dissipate 3.2 watts of heat in one single bulb.

heck the 2 2 watt bulbs I used in the refrigerator will probably outlast MULTIPLE generations 100 years from now someones going to go HEY check this out these bulbs still work hehe

My ULTIMATE goal is to get the power required for illumination SO LOW that in theory you could run the entirety of your lighting off a SMALL battery pack and SMALL solar panel. Think Nickel Iron battery (virtually ever lasting ideal for LOW power applications) and a tiny inverter (400watts will run every single light in the house all at once once I am fully LED) for a WEEK even if the solar panel fails.

40% of our electrical power in this country goes to lighting. my goal is to attempt to show its possible to REMOVE that from the grid entirely.

 

[deadrx7conv]

Here's a link for a DIY bulb replacement for a simple ceiling fixtures:
http://darelldd.com/light/closet_light.html
http://darelldd.com/light/bath_fan_light.html
http://darelldd.com/light/desk_lamp.htm

 

[nerys]

Hmmm I might have to check out these XRE's that is impressive from that fixture. not "plug and play" but nice !!

 

[deadrx7conv]

Don't get hung up on that emitter. The DIY links can be made with just about any LED along with different counts of LEDs, and various driver types. What is impressive is how someone modified fixtures for LED usage relatively simply and easily.

More DIY(more advanced):
http://www.dmcleish.com/MauiHome/

 

[nerys]

ok I know. I am just impressed with the quality of the light he seems to be getting out of them. I wonder if he gets enough COOLING simply by using the fixture as a heat sink though or if his usage duty cycle is low enough that it does not matter.

 

[ryguy24000]

Is there an attic above that hall?? If so go with recessed lighting and LED lamps. Even if you don't have a attic above you may still be able to do this. I could with my super electrician tools. Any questions just ask.

 

[nerys]

upstairs yes downstairs no. I can not do recessed yet because I have no determined the viability of those lamps yet. I ordered a couple different lamps from DX so should have them in 2-3 weeks then I will need to run them at least 3 months before I will be satisfied they are viable (all new LED lamps I buy get "Burned" first. I plug them in turn them on and leave them on 24/7 for 2-3 months minimum ir around 2000 hours. summer preferred.

if they are REALLY bad designed they will fail or begin to fail 90% of the time during such a torture test.