My Surefire L4 story

[sotto]

Companies go where the money is, in general, and that's the way I'd do it too probably if I were in a similar position. To believe that SF has a warm spot in their heart for all of us and that they share our anxiety over not being able to acquire what we'd like in a timely fashion is probably a bit naive. However, there are other companies who haven't established themselves as DOD suppliers, at least not large ones, who certainly (for whatever reasons) have given our interests much higher priority, and they deserve (and are clearly going to get) our $$$. Exactly what SF deserves from us in the future will remain to be seen. Hopefully, the company will continue to merit our support. However, in many cases now it seems that their priorities are inconsistent with our requirements. Consumers have rather long memories about things like this.

 

[Frangible]

[ QUOTE ]
She phoned around until she found a place that had one in stock etc, all without me knowing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn... I'll trade you an L4 with 2 pilas and charger for your wife??

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[KevinL]

I understand the difficulty in obtaining SF lights because I had to jump through hoops and pay unbelievable amounts of shipping charges just to obtain my E1e. The thing is, I wanted it badly enough to do all of that, because I see some value in their lights. I could care less about the politics and the supply chain, I hate politics. I buy their lights and will continue to do so because of the engineering and the performance they deliver - even if they refuse to take my international orders on their website and even if I have to wait for it. It takes a lot more than that to sour me on a good product. Understood not everybody agrees with me on this, as such there are plenty of other manufacturers.

Incidentally, a CPF favorite, Arc Flashlight, is backordered by *FOUR* weeks as well. Last I checked their website it was two weeks, now it is four. Not so great, because I felt like impulse-buying an Arc AAA. However, I don't see any reason to get angry with them or support them any less. It does not in any way detract from the quality of a well engineered light. I will probably buy my Arc later, either from them or from another source (it's still an Arc and they still get paid, because the source will have to buy it from them to begin with), or wait for the CPF 2004 Special Edition. Good things come to those who wait /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Hammerhead]

Steve, you're a lucky man!

Guys, I'm a newbie in the forum, but not a newbie to business. Let me see if I can help put this into a different perspective, for our friends to the North, by exploring the business issues surrounding "just ramping up" as though it's no big deal.

This is more than just a simple exercise in supply and demand. We must also expand the definition to factor for optimization (maximize profit, minimize loss) and risk (the time value of money) as it relates to capital expenditures and new markets.

It's easy to forget that these items are all executed in a high-tech way and leave out the equation for capital equipment, fixed, and variable costs and all the other factors that are involved.

CNC machining equipment isn't cheap. A good lathe can be upwards of $100,000 to buy, more to rig into a building and install. Floorspace - which costs money per square foot - must be created in the factory, new electrical lines brought in... and so on. Equipment must be maintained to preserve its functioning and longevity, so there is a budget that must be allocated for that. Perishable tooling needs to be added, since bits and bores only last so long. Now, add operators (who are also employees) who aren't cheap either, the costly mandates of programs like Social Security, and other government regulation, and WHAM!!!

And all that's before a single damned unit ever gets off the line.

Now, let's look at what happens after the product is made. More products shipped equals more adiminstrative overhead. More employees to pick, pack, ship, and handle customer service and sales. More government regulations. And more negative friction inside the company that weighs on their success. Ergo, more reason to NOT ramp up for a tirtiary consumer market that, as noted, is already being served by many alternate manufacturers.

And all that's before a single damned unit ever gets sent across the border.

Selling in Canada would mean that if you're going to sell in one Province, you need to sell to all. But SOME areas of Candada are just a bit more "demanding" than others, therefore more difficult to accommodate. Bilingual packaging is necessary for those areas. WHAM! More costs for translation (to Canadian French, since Continental French just doesn't cut it for those guys), design, layout, typesetting, and additional areas of the warehouse to store the new packaging. Oh... and more employees to manage that sales effort. Then, add on the costs of monetary exchange, shipping costs, VAT, Customs duties, liability insurance to factor for the new market, customer support that goes across the border, and Canadian government requirements (as though our own weren't onerous enough) and you have a sufficiently good reason to not be so quick to just say "WTF... let's sell in Canada".

Here's the deal. Surefire is probably very comfortable, and very smart. They've followed the cardinal business rule - they built a better mousetrap and likely have zero slack capacity in the making of it. They've optimzied their business market and if/when the government business backs off, then all the better for us Civvies.

Then, of course, there's the booing of our National Anthem at hockey games that probably didn't help matters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[McGizmo]

Hammerhead,
Welcome to CPF and insightful post there! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif On the CNC machine, add an additional digit to the cost and factor in close to a year for delivery for the heck of it. And then you need to pull someone off the Mickey D's burger line to run this simple machine. Don't forget that raw machined parts and electronics have to be assembled and QC'd by more folks stollen from Micky D's and while we're at it let's use Micky D's parking lot to put up a tent for housing these assembly work stations! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Since domestic dealers have been facing backorders as a rule and not the exception, I think expanding into greater international markets like Canada makes excellent sense! The bi-lingual packaging can be ordered without additional in house strain on SF other than storage for it and possibly perodic dusting it off! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Now if SF flashlight distribution in Canada is at all similar to the marine market I was familiar with a few years ago, you either sell to a few master distributors who know their market and can distribute to the many many small and independent dealers or you go dealer direct and that can be a real challange without having a sales force in place who is familiar with Canada! SF has gone dealer direct here in the states and I assume that the pricing and margin structure is lean to the point that adding an additional distribution tier will only work if the retail price is bumped to accomodate this. That or SF drops their price and revenue at their end. The latter makes all kinds of sense when they are already producing at max capacity at present; NOT.

Since we are all speculating here for the most part and I have lost my tongue somewhere in this useless post, I suggest that Steve has nailed the essence already with his "Smaller, brighter, better and backordered" (or similar if I missed it) and any deeper inspection is wasted due to murky waters.

 

[Kiessling]

And there is B/S/T for us, and the rest aren't flashaholics anyway ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
Bottom line is, we cannot do anything and have to accept the status as is. Buy it or leave it.
And I really do not think this is an enormous conspiracy on the part of SF to ruin our access to their lights ... these thoughts are just frustration seeking abnother way out ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

bernhard

 

[Hammerhead]

McG -

LOL! Presuming I read correctly between the lines of your acerbic wit, we're on the same page. That one zero was missing presuming the equipment was bought off auction from some poor soul forced out of business by EPA or other regulations resulting from people with NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) mentalities, who then wonder why jobs are being outsourced overseas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

But then, the question becomes "What happens when you're forced by the Gummint to pay a 'living wage' to those Mickey D's guys?"

- ROFL -

Otherwise, yes, one can work with distributors, or a direct sales force. But in either case, as you noted... where's the "Raison d'Etre"? (heh... forgive my *******ized French, but it seems to fit). That's a reduction of margin out of the gate, either as a sales discount, or payroll.

That said, we're DEFINITELY a tad OT on this. Suffice to say that we empathize with a customer's point of view, but it seems that the 'scalability' doesn't go both ways. Those of us who own businesses wish that customers would understand the issues, and the further encumberances imposed by Government "helping out" by programs and entitlements that other people have to pay for.

'Nuff said. I'm sure everyone here can figure the color of my stripe by now: Red, White and Blue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[TheSteve]

Wow, so many responses to my post.
First off I'm happy to report I have an L4 on the way, should be here middle of next week - brand new in the box.

I also want to thank everyone for the replies and suggestions.
I don't doubt there are reasons for the delays in Surefire shipping flashlights, and it does take time(and money) to ramp up for more production. As long as I've been reading CPF's though there have been excessive delays. If the standard wait was a week or two I wouldn't think much of it, but there are countless stories of people waiting months.

I just hope they improve the delay is all, I plan to keep mentioning more flashlights(such as the Ultra 2) in hopes wonderful things will appear under the tree in a few months.

Steve

btw, my wife has lovely diamonds and many of them(and she is so worth it!)

 

[Techmedic]

Hey Thesteve,

Just where did you get it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif Sorry, I should not have asked this question.
Seriously, is there another supplier or is this the one I suggested in B/S/T?
Us Canadian flashaholics need to stick together and perhaps arrange a joint US trip (same as what Prolepsis does) to pick up our new toys.
Incredible thread, and perhaps SF is busting at the seams to meet the demand, yet being cautious to invest in more capital expenses viewing the war efforts as temporary.

 

[kelmo]

L2 Switch

Hello,

I just purchased a Surefire L2. It is a very cool flashlight but I noticed when it is on the low beam setting the switch emits a very faint high pitched hum. I sent it back and it was returned with a statement saying that this is not an uncommon condition and the light is fine. Does anybody out there have a switch that hums?

Thanks

 

[357]

Re: L2 Switch

^Yeah, BOTH my L2s hum at the low setting. Furthermore, one of my three Arc 4s hums at setting 11. I suppose the humming is fairly common of these type a lights.

 

[kelmo]

Re: L2 Switch

Thanx

 

[GarageBoy]

Re: L2 Switch

That's normal

 

[McGizmo]

Hammerhead,
I reckon you saw through me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

TheSteve, good news for you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

In terms of expansion, I suppose some don't consider that a company which is run and manned by people and depends on people for assembly and production is really only as good as the people on the team. Now some of you have no doubt been in human resource development or managerial capacities and might agree with me that one of the greatest challenges is finding and keeping good people! Now since four out of five people born are born with blatant and acknowledged flashlight building and assembly skills, there should be no problem what so ever in SF ramping up on the human resource level. Since there is *always* a vacant and perfect building next door and semis driving up and down the street hawking state of the art multi axis machining centers, SF has no excusses here either. I would guess that the real bottle neck for their expansion is an integrated and expanded phone system! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Now this post is likely still OT and possibly a bit tongue in cheek; still haven't found my tongue but it does serve an important function. I wanted to get the subject back to what The Steve had titled it and the hell with L2 switch?!?!? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

 

[TheSteve]

Hey all,

Well I received my "new" L4 today. Turns out it wasn't new even though the dealer assured us it was. The included batteries are pretty much dead and the pocket clip is bent out far enough it'll never hold on anything. I am also pretty bummed about the color - I know there is variation in LEDs but this awfully green.
Anyway, it'll be going back next week.
There are only two Surefire dealers in Canada, this was the one located in the east, obviously I don't recommend anyone deal with them.
So my quest to find an L4 continues.(btw, the construction of the L4 itself is absolutely excellent - I can't wait to get a new one)

Steve

 

[KevinL]

Drop 'jcciv' a private message. That guy is good, he seems to be able to find almost all kinds of exotic SF stuff, at least the stuff I ask for.