Imagine I wanted to disperse light from a cree xre as widely as possible, and any forward light would just be a by product. What would I look for? Optics? Is "refract" the light the right term for this? Perhaps mirrors? Imagine I am an idiot who doesn't really know much about the behaviour of light and you will be on the right track....
Need the widest possible floody optic
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spencer
Enlightened
How widely? 360 degrees? Like a light bulb?
Well, I really should have put this in the lantern forum, but I was just not sure I would get the same experienced users there. I am hypothesizing a 2x18650 hand held light with a heavy metal base, an emitter of course, and some type of optic/reflector. Perhaps a glass dome, but perhaps not.
I could attempt to make some sort of reverse cone reflector like some of the LED lights already use, but what I would really like to build would look more "artsy."
Say for instance a box with a giant glass marble or some sort of crystal on top, the light box shining up through the bottom. So I have looked into prism's (not the right answer) and diverging lens' but I don't think either of those are right either.
I can't say for sure this is feasible until I find what options are out there, but I like the idea. To keep it simple I may even just use a Q5 drop in mounted in a project box, but I would rather pretty it up more than that. Like some faux marble painting techniques instead.
Now that I gave up my whole idea I don't want to see one of you make it first, hah hah.
I appreciate the responses.
I could attempt to make some sort of reverse cone reflector like some of the LED lights already use, but what I would really like to build would look more "artsy."
Say for instance a box with a giant glass marble or some sort of crystal on top, the light box shining up through the bottom. So I have looked into prism's (not the right answer) and diverging lens' but I don't think either of those are right either.
I can't say for sure this is feasible until I find what options are out there, but I like the idea. To keep it simple I may even just use a Q5 drop in mounted in a project box, but I would rather pretty it up more than that. Like some faux marble painting techniques instead.
Now that I gave up my whole idea I don't want to see one of you make it first, hah hah.
I appreciate the responses.
ICUDoc
Enlightened
The bare XR-E has a nice wide dispersion- the "Mule " designs coming out use this on its own- maybe your best option (cheap too!). I like the look of some of my polished agates over the top though- less efficient but very pretty. Finally, what about three XR-Es on a triangular heatsink (as per McGizmo prototype)?
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lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've just ordered the sku 13667 from DX.
If anyone is interested, I'll post about how it perfroms once I get it.
If anyone is interested, I'll post about how it perfroms once I get it.
dom
Enlightened
A bare Cree is the best as Doc said -just a little glarey for you application i think.
I've been meaning to get one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13736
And i want to try out one of these from Cutter
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut777
Nice way to break up the glare anyway.
Cheers
Dom
I've been meaning to get one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13736
And i want to try out one of these from Cutter
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut777
Nice way to break up the glare anyway.
Cheers
Dom
I am interested to see how that sku 13667 works, as it claims up to 120 degrees. I have been experimenting with anything I can find around the house, and so far I can diffuse the light fine, but I can't really get the beam any wider than a bare emitter already gives. I have also been looking at "lambertian diffuser's". They do seem to diffuse the light and give a nice even glow, but again it doesn't really widen the beam.
Another thought I had was some sort of flourescing material so it sort of acts as a secondary light source using the primary to energize it, but I don't think I can get anywhere near the light output I hope for from it. Does seem like an interesting side bar though. I have been shining a flashlight through a thin layer of VL Ultra Green glow powder, and I am surprised how much light passes through it.
I have also been attempting to study the data sheets for both the cree xr-e and SSC P7 but I am not sure I am reading them correctly. Both of these leds are 90 degrees?
Also removed a reflector from my sylvania mini lantern to play with, but I didn't like the output from it at all. Perhaps in combination with a diffuser, I dunno.
I found some really cool naturally flourescing crystal spheres, but they certainly are pricey. One interesting material was "selenite".
An acrylic marble such as sold on the sandwich shoppe is primarily for focusing light?
Another thought I had was some sort of flourescing material so it sort of acts as a secondary light source using the primary to energize it, but I don't think I can get anywhere near the light output I hope for from it. Does seem like an interesting side bar though. I have been shining a flashlight through a thin layer of VL Ultra Green glow powder, and I am surprised how much light passes through it.
I have also been attempting to study the data sheets for both the cree xr-e and SSC P7 but I am not sure I am reading them correctly. Both of these leds are 90 degrees?
Also removed a reflector from my sylvania mini lantern to play with, but I didn't like the output from it at all. Perhaps in combination with a diffuser, I dunno.
I found some really cool naturally flourescing crystal spheres, but they certainly are pricey. One interesting material was "selenite".
An acrylic marble such as sold on the sandwich shoppe is primarily for focusing light?
StarHalo
Flashaholic
You can "Mule" a Fenix P2D if you can get the bezel unscrewed: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=201611
Makes quite a wall of light on the higher settings
Makes quite a wall of light on the higher settings
LukeA
Flashlight Enthusiast
No TIR optic, bare emitter, or diffusing lens is going to give a suitable beam pattern for what you say you want in your first post. They will waste almost all of the emitted light by directing it upward. You want a conical mirror.
Thanks for that tidbit Luke, I don't really have the experience with optics as I stated. I was hoping something like a prism shape would do it. I am having a hard time keeping my focus in one direction on this project (my mental focus that is).
I still haven't completely decided if this a a functional hand held lamp, a desk lamp, or an object d' art.
So, for the most sideways output, indirectly, do I want to focus the light as tight as possible before hitting the mirror, or not? Because I would think, yes that makes more sense, but to look at the prebuilt solutions out there already, they don't. Perhaps just a cost factor. I am going to study the osram golden dragon thread in depth again, I see the use of optics in combination with a reflector has worked out great in that case. But, I had hoped for a more "novel solution."
I wish I had an old lambertian led to play with. I wonder why they went out of fashion. Not efficient?
I still haven't completely decided if this a a functional hand held lamp, a desk lamp, or an object d' art.
So, for the most sideways output, indirectly, do I want to focus the light as tight as possible before hitting the mirror, or not? Because I would think, yes that makes more sense, but to look at the prebuilt solutions out there already, they don't. Perhaps just a cost factor. I am going to study the osram golden dragon thread in depth again, I see the use of optics in combination with a reflector has worked out great in that case. But, I had hoped for a more "novel solution."
I wish I had an old lambertian led to play with. I wonder why they went out of fashion. Not efficient?
LukeA
Flashlight Enthusiast
You have to balance the losses focussing the light before it hits the reflector against the losses of unreflected light.
Cree has the only non-lambertian LED out there. SSCs and Rebels are Lambertian in emission profile. Crees direct light in an even more narrow distribution, so that would make them even better for this.
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, it arrived yesterday, and I tried it out. I bought it on impulse because I liked the look of it. It is an aspheric lens, with a corrugated finish on the flat side. It is a good physical size to fit in a C/D Maglite or clone.
DX's description reads "15~120-Degree". I now know what that means - they were intending to convey that it scatters the beam in a slot 15 degrees high and 120 degrees wide.
My own finding is that this is about right - when it is unfocussed.
But when you focus it - it casts a bright, sharp bar of light - because it scatters the die image along the plane of the corrugations. More like 1~30 degrees than 15~120, in sharp focus.
Will be interesting to try this with an incan - with the lens alternately aligned and perpendicular to a transverse filament.
Anyway, this is a digression.DX's description reads "15~120-Degree". I now know what that means - they were intending to convey that it scatters the beam in a slot 15 degrees high and 120 degrees wide.
My own finding is that this is about right - when it is unfocussed.
But when you focus it - it casts a bright, sharp bar of light - because it scatters the die image along the plane of the corrugations. More like 1~30 degrees than 15~120, in sharp focus.
Will be interesting to try this with an incan - with the lens alternately aligned and perpendicular to a transverse filament.
"You asked for the "widest possible floody optic", and the classic old-school answer to that question looks like this:
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/images/t03/0000001/r01794v29.jpg
That's a picture of the glass front of a wide-flood PAR36 lamp, but the scattering-in-all-directions glass is what we're getting at. Haven't yet seen a flashlight lens that does this, but when we do, that is pretty much what it will look like.
Oh, and if these are found, I'm in for a few!
