NiMh Battery Shoot Out

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1dash1

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Bones:

The BTY batteries tested look identical to the picture on the far left.


If the vendor doesn't offer me a refund, I'll tear off the wrap and see what's underneath.
 

TorchBoy

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hank

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Torchboy asked a ways back
> relative values of capacity and self discharge?

I will keep a few high capacity NiMH cells around, that I can charge fully before a weekend camping trip. But right now for this use my Maha 2100 and 2300 AAs bought a few years ago are fine. I don't find myself battery shopping for higher capacity ratings.

I am looking almost entirely for the low self discharge cells when I shop for new ones.

Main criteria --- not leaking. Reliable. Brand name.

Everywhere I talk to people lately -- from hospital purchasing folks to my auto mechanic to the computer people -- I hear over and over about shoddy or fake-labeled products.

_All_ the expense is going into the packaging. Nice quality cardboard boxes, good clear printing, heck, they've even started using spellcheck. And inside the box, crap.

The auto mechanic showed me a box of oil filters he'd taken delivery of lately. He said nowadays he takes metal snips to one out of every box of 24 that he gets, he doesn't trust the labels, the lot numbers, or anything else to be true.

The shoddy oil filter had almost no filter element -- no filter paper --- inside the pretty metal can. He showed me a good one made here -- the filter element was thick double layer densely folded filter paper packed in with good rubber gaskets. No oil got by the good one. No oil got usefully filtered by the cheap bad one.

I was astonished. They spend the money on the box and painting the can, and save a couple of pennies by shortcutting the _filter_element_ and ruin the vehicle when it blows out inside and quits working and lets paper scraps go into the engine.

This stuff is cheap stupid. Not cheap smart. Cheap destructive stupid.

The medical device purchasers aren't talking as clearly, no doubt afraid of liability.

So how do I value batteries? Trust, verify, ask, check and hope (sigh)
 

MattK

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MattK:

I've been running tests on 2700 mAH AA's. I forgot to change the protocol for the AAA's. Newbie mistake.

... or early signs of Alzheimers. :tinfoil:

Nonetheless, I doubt if performance will pick up very much if I change the cycle protocol. After all, the C9000 automatically set the 0.2c and 0.1c rates during the break-in mode (the 1200 mAH capacity was properly inputted) and look at those results by comparison.
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P.S. I originally planned on running tests on all 12 batteries purchased. However, the initial results are so bad, I think testing the remaining batteries would be a waste of time.
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2 things I am sure of:

1 - If you test them at .24Ah they'll do better

2 - They'll never attain 1200mah
 

Bones

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Re: NiMH Battery Shoot Out

I found a couple of Hong Kong BTY sellers yesterday - less than $12 for a dozen 1000 mAh AAA cells. Their photos are of the silver ones.

http://www.1topstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=1738
http://www.8starshop.com/en/12pcs-rechargeable-aaa-1000mah-12v-ni-mh-nimh-battery.html

However, after tests on some of DX's BTY cells turned up a typical 50 mAh per 800 mAh cell, they don't look very attractive, even at that price.

It seems fairly obvious that the 1200mAh BTY AAA cells are fakes.

Once the eBay vendors are left out of the Google search criteria, there are only about 20 hits for 1200mAh BTY cells, none of which are relevant, as opposed to over 800 hits for the 1000mAh cells, most of which are relevant.

I'm amazed at the dismal capacity of the 800mAh BTY AAA cells at DealExtreme though.

BTY cells appear to be a product of Shenzhen BTY Electronics Technology Company, Ltd., which GlobalSources lists as a verified battery supplier to Canon and Sony and several other quality brands.

Accordingly, it's difficult to believe they would produce such absolute garbage and, worse yet, allow it to bear and consequently diminish their brand.

It would be interesting to know how the silver & blue cells perform. If they are at least an average performing cell, it could be indicative that the DealExtreme cells are fakes as well.
 

TorchBoy

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Re: NiMH Battery Shoot Out

BTY cells appear to be a product of Shenzhen BTY Electronics Technology Company, Ltd., which GlobalSources lists as a verified battery supplier to Canon and Sony and several other quality brands.
I think that "Verified Supplier" just means that Global Sources has checked they exist, and they are "actually who they say they are." It apparently doesn't mean they make official products for anyone.

Nice new avatar, BTW.
 

hank

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Chuckle. It depends on how much you know whether a typo is trivial* or not.
Mark Twain said to be careful when reading medical books.

With electricity, too, a typographical error can hurt you.

Experts can breeze right over typos, knowing what the right word should be.

It's a kindness to corrects mistakes that otherwise get naive readers like me bollixed up.

Amperes is current, amp-hours is capacity -- I think. Help us out here.
_____________________________________
* Trivial: a UNIX sysop once told me what I'd asked was 'trivial' -- defined thus: "not worth my time to fix it it for you or explain it to you, and you'll never figure it out on your own."
 

1dash1

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Update: BTY 1200 mAH AAA batteries

The vendor says he'll give me a refund, just send the batteries back.

I'll do so today.

I almost wish that he didn't, so that I could post a negative comment about the bad merchandise (this was an eBay purchase). However, it was a good lesson for me - so, I suppose it will be a good lesson for the next buyer. Caveat emptor!
 

Bones

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Re: NiMH Battery Shoot Out

I think that "Verified Supplier" just means that Global Sources has checked they exist, and they are "actually who they say they are." It apparently doesn't mean they make official products for anyone.

After a closer look, I must agree that your rather than my interpretation of a "Verfied Supplier" is correct ...

Nice new avatar, BTW.

Thanks, I think he (okay, it) portrays a certain élan that I can only envy.

Now, if I just knew whether to credit Charles M. Schwarz or the Eneloop division at Sanyo ...
 

geek4christ

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Tom,

Would you be at all interested in testing the newer La Crosse cells? I have AAs rated at 2400mAh and AAAs rated at 800mAh that I can spare for a while. Let me know if you've the time and desire to test them.
 

Black Rose

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Another set of 4 ROV Hybrid AAA cells finished the Break-In cycle on my MH-C9000 this morning. Capacities reported were:

770, 751, 778, 783 mAh

Cell #4 is the best result I have achieved so far with the ROV Hybrid AAA cells.
 

Raymond

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p1192634285.jpg


I bought a pair of Varta ready2use AA cells yesterday.

Out of the packaging they measured 1522mAh and 1555mAh.

After charging them on my accumanager 20, they measured 2055mAh and 2081mAh.

All tests @ 500mA discharge.
 

1dash1

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Followup: BTY 1200 mAH AAA NiMH batteries.
The vendor promptly refunded me the full purchase price (including shipping & handling!) and offered me a discount on my next purchase. I'm not happy with the product, but the service was good.

=================================================

Next: Kodak Pre-Charged AA 2100 mAH (hybrid) batteries

A set of four batteries were tested straight out of the package with the MAHA C9000. The batteries were discharged at 400 mA, then conditioned using the "Break-In" mode, with the following results:

Btty #1 ..... Btty #2 ..... Btty #3 ..... Btty #4
2003 .......... 2015 .......... 2016 .......... 1986 (mAH)

Batteries were subsequently discharged at 400 mA, rested for 2 hours, then tested in the "Cycle" mode (2 cycles, discharged at 400 mA, charged at 400 mA). The test results were as follows:

Btty #1 ..... Btty #2 ..... Btty #3 ..... Btty #4
1987 .......... 2000 .......... 2011 .......... 2005 (mAH) CYCLE No. 1
1992 .......... 2009 .......... 2013 .......... 2016 (mAH) CYCLE No. 2

(Kodak's packaging stated the minimum charge is 2000 mAH.)

P.S. Sorry, I failed to record the original discharge values out of the package. I'll test another package of Kodaks after I get through testing the current batch of Eneloop AAA's.

--------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Tested another fresh pack @ 400 mA. Initial discharge values:
1553 ... 1376 ... 1419 ... 1302 mAH
Average = 1413 mAH or approximately 2/3 of the 2100 rating.
(Not bad, fresh out of the package!)

Conditioned values were similar to previous pack tested:
2029 ... 2017 ... 2044 ... 1982 mAH.
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