Norland 61 removal

[krazy89]

Hey Guys...

i don't know if this has been discussed or not... but how would one try to remove a trit from a light body that was attached with Norland 61?

Has anyone done it?

I've heard that boiling it and then chipping away at it works... but there has to be a solvent or some chemical solution to it... i mean nothings permanent right???

And experiences/ideas would be great!

 

[derfyled]

Maybe acetone ? I never tried but it may work...

 

[PhotonFanatic]

From somewhere on the Norland website:

[SIZE=+2]Separating Lenses Bonded
With Norland Optical Adhesive[/SIZE]


The simplest method for separating a lens bonded with Norland Optical Adhesive is to immerse the lens in a solvent combination made up of the following: methylene chloride, 100 parts by weight -methanol, 15 parts - concentrated ammonia (26 Baumé or 29% NH ), 2 parts. The methylene chloride is the active solvent and the other solvents increase its activity.
A typical 1 inch diameter lens will separate easily before the full cure by an overnight soak in these solvents. A fully cured lens requires a longer soak because the adhesive is more crosslinked and slows the solvent penetrations. Some lenses may start to separate but the solvent does not penetrate to the center even after a long soak. This is due to a very thin layer of adhesive in the center. To separate these lenses a slight thermoshock is necessary. Warm the lens up to 150°F and immerse it in the solvent combination while still warm. The sudden contraction will allow the solvent to penetrate to the center. Repeat if necessary.
Heating in hot oil is another method that is commonly used. Usually it will take 20 to 40 minutes at 400 degrees F for the lens to separate. An alternate heating method is to place lenses in a vacuum coater and heating them under vacuum until they separate. Remove adhesive from glass surfaces now by immersing in the solvent combination.
Large lenses may require even higher temperatures to separate them. One method that has been successful is a heated sand bath at a temperature of 800°F. A fine sand or emery is heated in a pan on a hot plate. When it is up to temperature the lens is placed on the surface and will separate as it heats up.
Paint strippers containing methylene chloride are usually available from local hardware stores and will work as well or better than the solvent combination given. A liquid formula will work better than the gel-type.
Protective goggles and gloves should be used when handling chemicals.

 

[jhanko]

Acetone will not touch it. Methylene chloride is nasty stuff and will instanly eat aluminum. The easiest way is to heat up the area to around 300 degrees F with a heat gun or propane torch on low. The adhesive will turn to a powder and the trit will come right out with a safety pin...

 

[krazy89]

hey guys...

thanks for the article... i emailed Norland directly and they attached that same thing to me...

about the Methylene chloride... does it really eat alum??? how about the type of metal used in a Wee NS? it's supposed to be Nickel Silver??

also... with a heat gun... would the cured Norland 61 really turn to powder at 300 deg F??? is there any concerns about that tempurature on the trit vials? would that damage them?

Thanks guys for the help!

KraZy

 

[jhanko]

hey guys...

thanks for the article... i emailed Norland directly and they attached that same thing to me...

about the Methylene chloride... does it really eat alum??? how about the type of metal used in a Wee NS? it's supposed to be Nickel Silver??

also... with a heat gun... would the cured Norland 61 really turn to powder at 300 deg F??? is there any concerns about that tempurature on the trit vials? would that damage them?

Thanks guys for the help!

KraZy

I've removed several vials with a heat gun & safety pin. Never damaged one. Takes less than a minute...

Here's a quote from an MSDS:
10. Stability and Reactivity
Stability:
Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Emits highly toxic fumes of phosgene when heated to decomposition. Decomposes in a flame or hot surface to form toxic gas phosgene and corrosive mists of hydrochloric acid. Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide may form when heated to decomposition.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Incompatibilities:
Strong oxidizers, strong caustics, plastics, rubber, nitric acid, water + heat, and chemically active metals, such as aluminum and magnesium powder, sodium, potassium, and lithium. Avoid contact with open flames and electrical arcs. Liquid methylene chloride will attack some forms of plastics, rubber, and coatings.
Conditions to Avoid:
Moisture, heat, flames, ignition sources and incompatibles

 

[cmacclel]

I've removed several vials with a heat gun & safety pin. Never damaged one. Takes less than a minute...

Here's a quote from an MSDS:
10. Stability and Reactivity
Stability:
Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Emits highly toxic fumes of phosgene when heated to decomposition. Decomposes in a flame or hot surface to form toxic gas phosgene and corrosive mists of hydrochloric acid. Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide may form when heated to decomposition.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Incompatibilities:
Strong oxidizers, strong caustics, plastics, rubber, nitric acid, water + heat, and chemically active metals, such as aluminum and magnesium powder, sodium, potassium, and lithium. Avoid contact with open flames and electrical arcs. Liquid methylene chloride will attack some forms of plastics, rubber, and coatings.
Conditions to Avoid:
Moisture, heat, flames, ignition sources and incompatibles

Wow you have nutz heating up radio active vials with a torch and heat gun!

Mac

 

[McGizmo]

I heat the Norland up to about 175F and at that point, it is soft enough to be pliable and "pickable" with needle, straight pin or dental pick.

 

[darkzero]

I also use heat instead of chemicals but I don't use a torch or direct flame. I use the heat attachment on my butane Weller PK2C. I don't heat it until it I see it turn to powder though. I heat it until it gets soft then use a pick, it comes off fairly easy. I don't know what temperature I'm heating it too but I know it's hot enough when I can smell a funny odor to it (similar smell to heating epoxy). I've never damaged anything yet & I've done it's lots of times.

 

[precisionworks]

Methylene chloride... does it really eat alum???

It does so quite nicely

Aluminum is resistant to many chemicals because of the thin film of aluminum oxide on its surface. The film formed in air, at ambient temps, is about 5 nm thick (50 Angstroms). Film thickness increases with increasing temps, and in the presence of water. One problem with aluminum is that in the presence of halogenated organic compounds (HOC), of which dichloromethane (or methylene chloride) is one, the protective film is destroyed it reacts, sometimes violently.

Titanium & Ti alloys can also be damaged by HOC, if the temps are above 500 °F.

Methylene chloride is banned in California, which is something I look for when choosing any stripper. Generally, if California bans it, that means it works really well:thumbsup:

 

[jhanko]

Methylene chloride is banned in California, which is something I look for when choosing any stripper. Generally, if California bans it, that means it works really well:thumbsup:

LOL! It's a cruel world we live in. All the things in life that work good and taste good are no good for you...

 

[65535]

So true PW. I kinda hate living in CA. Everything causes cancer according to the state.

 

[tino_ale]

Boiling and a dental pick has worked for me, yet I did break a vial once.Just take your time and work in a well ventilated area.

 

[krazy89]

Thanks guys...

this is going to be one hell of a project...

i got a great deal on a lummi wee and the original owner had 7 vials of ice blue trits glued (with Norland 61) to the tail... in addition to the 2 that were in the trit slots... (9 total vials on a wee!!!!)

for me... the 2 vials in the slots are more than enough for the wee... so i figure i'd try to harvest the other 7 trits to use on my various other lights

regarding the heating tempurature of 175F... is that the best and safe temp??? cuz i was going to just put it into boiling water.. and that's at 100C (212F)

also at that temp... is the consistency more like glue? is it runny enough to just wipe away?

Thanks,
KraZy

 

[vudoo]

I know this is an old thread but I had 2 trits installed in the clip of my Surefire C2. Its was my first attempt and did not turn out that well.

I removed the trits by placing the whole clip in cold water and then gently bringing it to the boil and keeping it just at the boiling point. Putting the trits in cold water and slowly raising the temperature was to reduce the chances of the vials cracking.

After about 15 minutes I removed it from the hot water and used a pin to pry away the Norland around the trit. Do not try and pry the trit out as you will break it. Slowly pry away around the trit first and removes as much as possible. I found a toothpick was too weak and did not have fine enough point for the delicate work.

After a while the Norland will start top harden so put it back into the water and do it all over again. Once you have removes all the surrounding Norland then you may try and gently pry out the trit. I had to do this 2 times but managed to get both trits out undamaged.

Hope this helps people....

 

[Beamhead]

My experience seems to be different, I have removed quite a few vials set in norland by just using a utility blade, every time the norland was pliable without preheating.

 

[PhotonFanatic]

Actually, acetone does work--but you will need to let it soak for a day, or longer--depending on how well it was cured. Then use a dental pic to remove the NOA.

 

[nfetterly]

which is something I look for when choosing any stripper. Generally, if California bans it, that means it works really well:thumbsup:

Utica NY in the mid 1990s was great for strippers, and Southern Ontario in Canada before that..., oh wrong subject.

I used a heat gun I borrowed from a friend to get the trits out of Peu bezels and McGizmo pistons that went off for coating. Broke 1 - heated it until softening, used a "bovine suture needle" to pick it out. If you work in pulp & paper - bovine suture needles are handy for repairing fabrics on slow machines like sludge presses. But I digress.....

I'm a chemical engineer (which makes me dangerous around chemicals) - and I chose right off to stay away from chemicals. The ones that work REALLY well are usually banned from "easy" use in industrial applications - but are readily available in your local hardware store. Creosote in the early 90s comes to mind.