Opalec vs Inretech

[INRETECH]

The runtime tests on the InReTECH products were performed with no tricks or modifications

The light source was positioned one foot away from the sensor

I just turned on the digital lightmeter pressed RECORD and walked away, after each light become too dark to monitor, or I got bored - I stopped the test and downloaded the information to the spreadsheet

If you see any "bumps" in the data, its most likely the temperature changes of the room where the test was being done

If you would like to review the information, you can download the 2AA tests directly at:

http://www.inretech.com/files/2aa.xls

Each line is ONE second of operation

 

[BentHeadTX]

The chart on the lithiums look really, really long!
I need to get a Brinkmann for my BB500 and put an Inretech into the M*gli*t. Throw some lithiums in there and have a good emergency (or long use) light.

 

[INRETECH]

Question was

Mike (INRETECH) You mentioned that "The InReTECH 2AA adapter does not operate on ReChargable batteries however; unless you step up to a TriLight or bigger" What is the Trilight? Is it a three battery AA light? Is there some kind of extension for the AA Mini Mag to make it a three battery light?

The TriLight is a 3x1w Adapter for the 3D Flashlight case, not the 2xAA case

Product,LEDs,Flashlight case,Pattern

TriLight,3x1w,3D,Colimated
Super6,6x1w,3D,Flood
Helios,3x5w,6D,Colimated
Mega6,6x5w,6D,Flood

 

[INRETECH]

Correction:

The tests were down on one MINUTE intervals, not one SECOND - sorry about that

 

[shipinretech]

Just as a referance, the InReTech AA adapter is not brighter than the Opalec AA adapter after 20-30 hours. The InReTech AA adapter is brighter than the Opalec adapter after 20-30 DAYS.

For extreme luminous endurance, alkaline batteries provide beter _extreme_ endurance than lithium batteries. I doubt that the lithium batteries would last more than two weeks, where alkalines have more than three weeks of low intensity life in them. If you look at the log charts this is quite clear. The curve on lithium batteries has clearly deflected downward after 1,000 minutes and the alkaline batteries are going strong, if not as bright at that moment. If you plan on getting trapped in a mine or lost in the woods for a few weeks, well, you should stay home and get your head examined. If getting caught without resupply is a concern in your life and you have an InReTech AA adapter, having at least one set of alkaline batteries is a good idea.

InReTech: It's not about being the brightest after two or three hours, It's about making light at all after two or three weeks.

 

[John N]

Any reason you aren't considering Wayne's modules? You get regulation and Luxeon...

http://home.attbi.com/~theledguy/cpf_store/cpf_store.htm

I just got one of his BadBoy 400mA and I have to say it's pretty trick.

I have some Newbeams as well and I like them a lot too. But they are pretty different -- three 5mm LEDs @ 10hrs vs a Luxeon @ 90 mins. The Luxeon is mucho brighter, the three LEDs last mucho longer.

-john

 

[shipinretech]

I do have to say that the BadBoy appears to be a very good choice for a regulated solution. Mike and I looked at that method very seriously and decided against it only after a lot of testing and discussion. I would certainly choose the BadBoy over the Opalec. If you have the budget, there is no reason not to get both the InReTech and the BadBoy...and then get some more InReTechs for the glove box.

 

[cmassicotte]

Wow! Thanks for all the input guys

jtivat - thanks for the link to the beam shots. Great comparisons -- now only if I could afford the ARC LS

RAH - Yes, I agree with your "penny wise/pound foolsh thinking, but these lights, though old, are in very good condition. I would not however consider using the Opalec in them after reading the post by mikes - I would not want to take the chance that they would fail when I most needed them - though I suspect that I have enough backups at hand that it probably wouldn't be a disaster if one did fail.

BuddTX - Thanks for the link to the earlier discussion. Have you had any real time experience since your earlier post about the time it would take for the InReTECH to reach the brightness level of the Opalec? Quote "the InReTECH starts off much brighter than the Opalec, and it takes a long time (I don't know the exact number, but maybe 20-30 hours) until it would reach the brightness of the Opalec.") This seems like an awefully long time; why bother with the Opalec at all if the InReTECH is brighter for a longer time?

Mike (INRETECH) You mentioned that "The InReTECH 2AA adapter does not operate on ReChargable batteries however; unless you step up to a TriLight or bigger" What is the Trilight? Is it a three battery AA light? Is there some kind of extension for the AA Mini Mag to make it a three battery light?

Thanks again for the advice. Sorry if I am going over old ground here, but I am not yet familiar to do the right kind of searches.

Chuck

 

[Lurker]

Posted by ShipInretech:
"The InReTech AA adapter is brighter than the Opalec adapter after 20-30 DAYS...For extreme luminous endurance, alkaline batteries provide beter _extreme_ endurance than lithium batteries."

Posted by Quickbeam:
[based on Roy's test] "...Both tests were with alkalines. So after around 1 1/2 hours, we would expect the Opalec to be brighter..."

ShipInretech, what do you mean by "brighter than the Opalec adapter after 20-30 DAYS" since clearly the Opalec will be completely dead by then? I interpret this to be a comparison to the brightness of the Opalec when it is operating in regulated mode.

Again, we have very inconsistent information here. The incredible claim is posted by the manufacturer and the modest claim is posted by an impartial source. If the incredible claim is true, I would be very impressed, so I am really anxious to see if there is any impartial validation of these results. BuddTX, thanks for offering the test. I'm looking forward to the results.

Inretech: Thanks for all the information. I hope you are not offended by my skepticism. Impartial validation is the essence of the Scientific Method. If/when your data is validated I will become your best customer and advocate. Please post any tips or information that will help in duplicating your results. I had thought that lithium batteries were necessary for best performance, but ShipInretech posted that alkalines are best for really long run times. Roy's test already refuted your claims on Alkaline batteries. How should the test be run to duplicate your claims?

 

[Lurker]

posted by mikes:
"The Opalec instructions state that it is designed for newer Mini Mags. I ignored that and put the Opalec into one old Mini Mag and it worked well, but one of the two plastic pins on the bottom broke after a few months"

I am sorry that you had a problem with your module. I don't doubt what you said, but my experience is different, so I'll post that as well.

I have just examined my NewBeam as it fits into my 1994 old-style MiniMag. In my installation, the Opalec's plastic pins do not reach the two holes that they would fit into on the newer style Minimag. They just hang there not touching anything. The module is held in place by the two wire connectors just as an incandescent lightbulb would be. The plastic base of the NewBeam module rests firmly on the MiniMag's plactic switch. It is a very nice fit and there is no excessive stress on any of the NewBeam's components. Installing and removing the module is easy, requiring no excessive force, since the plastic pins are not engaged. This set-up is fine and is actually preferred if you want to swap the module in and out repeatedly for any reason. I see no increased risk of damage to the NewBeam as it fits in my old-style MiniMag compared to the fit in a new-style, and if fact I would judge it to be safer overall. However, it is of little concern since the plastic pins could actually be completely removed and the module would still fit and work just as well in either style of light.

 

[StuU]

It might be a lot better to just spring the $8.00 for a new Mini-mag at Target. It doesn't make any sense to risk messing up an expensive mod like the Opalec.

Besides, the reason the Opalec is not recommended for older Mini-mag is that the Opalec module is subjected in it's full diameter to the torque from the Mini-mag head. The Mini-mag incandescent bulb is not subjected to *any* torque during on-off switching. The two Opalec module wires may hold up for a while but will eventually fail IMHO.

 

[Jonathan]

I think that the Inretech folk have pretty much told the story over the course of many posts and threads. Their adapter is a totally unregulated 1W luxeon star, possibly selected for low Vf so that it will be reasonably bright on a pair of AA cells.

Being unregulated, its output is _always_ dropping from the moment that you turn it on. But this also means that there are no components sitting their with a minimum supply voltage or a minimum current draw. The only factor is the LED itself. This means that as the battery drains, the light will get dimmer and dimmer, but it will keep working.

With a regulated light, the ouput remains at the regulated level for as long as the batteries can supply the power, then the output swiftly falls off. Eventually you reach the point where the battery is simply powering the LED directly (with most boost converter regulators, there is a direct current path from the supply to the load, with a simple diode drop in series), but you have greater losses, and the various parasitics from the regulator circuit itself.

My understanding of the _data_ on the adapters in question is that the Inretech adapter _starts_ brighter than the Opalec. After about an hour or so, they are at the same brightness, with the Inretech getting dimmer all the time. After 5-10 hours, the Opalec falls out of regulation, and starts getting dimmer. I'm pretty certain that it keeps going at this point, possibly for 10 or more hours, getting dimmer all the time. At some point it is dimmer than the Inretech again. The Inretech just keeps getting dimmer and dimmer, as the current flow drops and the cell voltage approaches that of the LED threshold voltage. I can believe that it would go for 30+ days, and simply be quite dim at that time.

An interesting question: how much juice is left in the cells after the Inretech adapter is too dim to be useable? Because of the Vf requirements of the LEDs, I would expect the cells to have considerable useful energy in them. I should try an experiment with a volt meter, a pair of AA alkaline cells, and a 1W LS.....

-Jon

 

[John N]

Note, regarding using the Newbeam in an older style Mag -- get a tailcap/switch ($4.50 from Brightguy or Wayne) like the Kroll so you don't need to switch with the head. This will eliminate the stress on the module, keep you from buying a new Mag and give you easier use (IMO).

Oh, and while you are at it, get a glass lens to replace the plastic one ($1.50 mineral glass from Wayne or borofloat glass $4.50 at flashlightlens.com )

-john

http://www.brightguy.com/detail.tpl?cart=104172737730788&sku=KROAM2A666

 

[shipinretech]

Jon,

I'm pretty sure that there is voltage left in the batteries after three weeks of use by our adapters. I expect that there is less than 1% of the original power remaining and that temperature fluctuations will substantially alter the output performance of the batteries.

I suspect that BuddTX is measuring the initial light output from the moment batteries fresh from a new package are placed in the flashlight. This test method will result in a peak intensity that drops sharply for the first ten minutes. I personally think that those ten minutes are irrelevant from the viewpoint of the entire life of the batteries. Our adapter probably loses 30% of its brightness in those 10 minutes on pristine batteries; losing 50% off a measurement taken in the initial moments of battery use is not a surprise. I don't care about those first ten minutes, I care about the days afterwards.

Let me put it differently, I sold an adapter to a friend of mine in August. Two weeks ago he told me he had not yet changed the batteries and was still getting good light from it. He is part of and amateur improvisational theatre group and uses the light to check character notes several times a week. That is long useful life. Peak intensity doesn't matter to him, usable life does.

If anybody wants a high intensity, high endurance light, we can make an adapter that will attach to a special power supply...a 5.0 horsepower generator.

 

[Owen]

"Roy did a runtime test on the Inretech - it reached 50% brightness in 1 1/2 hours. My sample started at 65 Lux. By deduction, we would expect that the Inretech would reach ~32 Lux (50% brightness) in 1 1/2 hours, and continue to decrease in output. The Opalec started at around 40 LUX and maintained very close to that output for 7 1/2 hours in my tests. Both tests were with alkalines. So after around 1 1/2 hours, we would expect the Opalec to be brighter and maintain that brightness for another 6-7 hours(!) with output then diminishing."
-------------------------------

I'm starting to like the sound of the Opalec. No doubt the Inretech is bright (mine is), and I don't doubt it will have an incredibly long run time. The question for me is, how much *usable* runtime for what I want to use the light for? I'm not toting around a AA Mini-Mag so I can get hundreds of hours of Photon II brightness out of it over the next several years. I want steady output over a decent period of time, and then I can change the batteries when the brightness falls below what I need. Sounds like the Opalec will give that, and without the color issues associated with a Luxeon.

 

[BuddTX]

Originally posted by shipinretech:
Let me put it differently, I sold an adapter to a friend of mine in August. Two weeks ago he told me he had not yet changed the batteries and was still getting good light from it. He is part of and amateur improvisational theatre group and uses the light to check character notes several times a week. That is long useful life. Peak intensity doesn't matter to him, usable life does.

If anybody wants a high intensity, high endurance light, we can make an adapter that will attach to a special power supply...a 5.0 horsepower generator.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Patrick,

1st Paragraph - EXACTLY! That is why you call your company InReTECH INcandecent REplacement TECHnoligies. For non-flashoholics (most of the world) your product is perfect.

"I use the light, I put it away, I use it again. When I think it is getting dim or weak, I replace the batteries. But hey, if I keep on using it, and don't percieve it to be dim, I don't change the batteries!"

That is the kind of light that I want to tell my friends and neighbors about. I still have an electrictian friend that works in the same building that I do, and I want to let him borrow my InReTECH instead of using his mini-mag. (He uses his mini-mag daily).

It's the kind of light I (a flashoholic) want in my toolkit. When looking into a PC to see jumper settings or to find a screw, or to see in back of whatever I am doing, as long as it works, I am happy. Because at that time, I am not concerned about the flashlight, but the other task that I am doing.

But for us Flashoholics, we almost want fireworks coming out of our lights. That Generator you mentioned, OK! As long as it is portable, I bet you would sell some here!

I bet if someone came out with a flashlight that took 8aa's, and had only 60 minutes of light, but the light was blindingly bright light, then the batteries were spent, you could sell several hundred here on CPF.

Look at SureFire with their HOLA's. 20 minutes of light from 2, 123a lithium 3V batteries. People use them all the time.

 

[John N]

$20 - Inretech 2AA white adapter (Luxeon, non reg)
$25 - Newbeam (from Brightguy) (3x5mm, reg)
$30 - Wayne's Madmax Adjustable (Luxeon, reg)
$35 - Wayne's 400mA Badboy (Luxeon, reg)
$40 - Wayne's 500mA Badboy (Luxeon, reg)

 

[Sean]

The Opalec runs about 8 hours of constant brightness on alkalines, rechargeables and lithiums.

The Inretech uses no regulation. So it's just the batteries and the luxeon LED. Remember, it doesn't work on rechargeables. Why? Well rechargeables run at 1.2v each. Alkalines run at 1.5v and lithiums up to 1.7v. So when you use the inretech with alkalines and the voltage drops from 1.5v to 1.2v your ready for a battery change.

The Inretech will run a long time from lithiums, but are you really buying it to run $2.50 apiece batteries in it? Makes a good emergency light but other than that, I like the opalec better. Don't fall for the "hundreds of hours" line. Oh sure, it will run that long, at 1/10 of 1 percent the original brightness. What good is that? Enough to read your watch with, that's about it.

The Opalec gives you consistent light output that mataches the Inretech (on alkalines) ofter 1.5 hours. And if you plan on using the Opalec a lot you can use rechargeables in it.

 

[Al]

Have to agree with Sean above.

I have both the Inretech and Opalec.
When used with alkalines, the units I have are visually comparable as to total light output except for color (Opalec - bluish; Inretech - greenish).
For me, the nod here goes to Opalec because of regulated output and better construction and design. Opalec "keys in" to the Mag in such a way that any torsional forces applied (twist "on", "off") will not produce any damage. The Inretech is a cut down Luxeon and is free to twist around once inserted into the Mag which could short out or break off it's connection leads. Mine is therefore installed in a Brinkmann Legend 2AA with tailcap switch which cancels out this potential weakness.

Using lithiums with the Inretech, however brightens it up considerably and it then surpasses the Opalec by quite a bit.

I presently use the Brinkmann/Inretech loaded with two N cells and one AAA (all alkaline) which drives it brighter than the lithiums. This light is used intermittantly, so I don't care about runtime

Have a 3AA Brinkmann on the way which will receive the Inretech module ... we'll see what happens ...

 

[BuddTX]

Originally posted by shipinretech:
Just as a referance, the InReTech AA adapter is not brighter than the Opalec AA adapter after 20-30 hours. The InReTech AA adapter is brighter than the Opalec adapter after 20-30 DAYS.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I did some tests, and based on Patrick's quote above, I might have a bad or defective adapter. I am pretty sure that I have one of the first one's that they made.

Here was my test.

The InReTECH 2aa adapter is mounted into an older style, but in very good shape mini-mag. I put in two, brand new, Rayovac Maximum AA's (the gold one's, not the newer Maximum plus).

At first, the InReTECH was much brighter than the Opalec. The Opalec has a blueish tint (even blue for a Nichia), and the InReTECH had a VERY slight green tint to it. As we all know, that has nothing to do with InReTECH or any other flashlight manufacturer, the color has to to with the LUXEON STAR itself.

After about 5 hours, the light output was ABOUT THE SAME.

After about 10 hours, the Opalec Newbeam was noticebly brighter than the InReTECH.

NOW, in this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=004030

PJD says that:
"I can't explain why, but I seem to get a better/tighter "throw" with the InReTECH in the Legend as opposed to the *ag."

Well, just for fun, I put the InReTECH in one of my Brinkmann 2aa's, with the same batteries as I was testing, and it DID appear to be brighter, and whiter also, but I have a constant flickering problem, even if I do not screw the bezel on tightly.

So I don't know. I will talk to Patrick and Mike at InReTECH and maybe send them my adapter for a check-up.