P3D with 17670's???

[big beam]

Do any of the 17670's fit in this light with the factory wrapper(heat shrink) still in place?

DON

 

[Steve L]

Hi Don, the unprotected 17670 Ultrafire fits in my P3D natural with it's wrapper. I have read other people having to remove the wrapper to get it to fit. I am not sure if this is due to variances in the batteries or the P3D battery tubes. On a side note I also have 3 different types of unprotected RCR123s(Soshine and 2 different unbranded from DX) that fit no problem. YMMV

 

[big beam]

THANKS Steve,
The ultrafire boasts 1800 mah.Are they anyhere near that? I see DX has them at about 4 ish bucks each,maybe I should buy a few if they vary in size?(and hope 1 or 2 fit).

DON

 

[Steve L]

I just received my P3D yesterday so I have not been able to do a runtime test yet. That being said Ultrafire are known to inflate there numbers a bit. I really couldn't notice any decrease in light output using a 17670 (17670-4.2v vs 6.0-8.4v depending if using 2 primary or rechargeable CR123) so I am happy.:twothumbs

 

[big beam]

Steve,
Where did you get your batterys from.Matt?
DON

 

[Steve L]

From Deal Extreme. Shipping takes from 2weeks to a month. Heres a few links:http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2844 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.722 I can't really recommend the RCR123s because 1 of the 2 two packs came discharged less than 1v. They did replace them, but it took forever. I've had good luck with the Ultafires.(You have to love the name)

 

[barkingmad]

I have had no problem with any of the batteries from DX - but would probably say many (most?) battery makers appear to exaggerate their capacities - or to qualify that 'their useable capacities' for medium to high drain applications.

I am just running a test on some freshly charged 17670's - the first claimed a capacity of 2200mah - at a 1C load it actually had a capacity of around 1300mah.

Just running it again on another identical battery at a 0.5C load and will do a third at 0.25C load and try and publish the results later.

 

[big beam]

At a 1C load(2.2amps) 1300 aint that bad.Let us know the rest of your testing.What type of battery are you testing?
DON

 

[barkingmad]

At 0.5C load (1.1 amps) the second battery tested at around 1450mah.

They are all the 17670 (unprotected) from DX.

The tests are done using a CBA-II tester, batteries are almost new (few cycles only), freshly charged (all reading 4.20 or very close) and the test cut-off voltage is 2.8v.

Third test (0.25C) running now but it will take some time... :candle:

 

[bspofford]

UltraFire recently released protected Li-ion CR123A, 18650 and 17670 cells in a silver color. They are slightly narrower than other protected cells and have raised positive terminals that eliminate the need for magnets or other maneuvers to make contact with a flat surface at the positive end of the barrel of many lights. DX and Kai have them at a good price, but you can save another $0.41 per pair of batteries if you order five sets at DX (use coupon 041500).

 

[barkingmad]

At 0.25C load (0.55 amps) the third battery tested at around 1500mah.

Might do another final test at 0.1C (0.22 amps) but looking at the discharge curve I would doubt it would add more than about another 50-75mah - so realistically an advertised capacity of 2200mah is in reality nearer 1600mah (25-30% less).

I have some of the DX 'protected' cells on order - should be here soon - will test with those as well.

 

[chevrofreak]

There is not much point in using a protected cell in the P3D, or any other buck-circuit light.

Most of the protection circuits used today were designed with incandescent lamps in mind. When an incandescent light starts dimming the filament cools and the resistance level drops. That causes the protection circuit to either read an overload (short circuit) or for the voltage to drop below the minimum voltage threshhold.

A light with a boost circuit will continue increasing the draw from the cell as the voltage decreases to try to keep the total amount of output power the same. This will usually act similarly to the incandecent in that it will either eventually make the voltage sag enough that the low voltage protection kicks in, or the current level gets high enough that the circuit shuts down from an over-current.

A light with a buck circuit, when it drops out of regulation, will go direct drive. As the voltage of the cell drops, so does the current. It is possible for a buck-citcuit light to draw a Li-Ion cell low enough to damage it without the protection circuit kicking in. If the circuit is set to trigger at 2.5v, which many are, then the light will keep running until it is putting out almost no light, yet the circuit remains open. You should not discharge a Li-Ion cell below 2.9v or you will damage it.


What would really be nice is if manufacturers would build an intelligent circuit with 2 sets of parameters for tripping the circuit.

1) For incandescents and boosted lights where the current draw level increases toward the end of the capacity of the cell. If it detects a current level above a preset, and the cell voltage has reached a certain point it will trip. This is basically how they are now.

2) A second set of parameters for buck-circuits. If it detects a low current, it would then trip the circuit at a higher voltage, say 2.9 or 3.0v to prevent cell damage.

I bet it wouldnt be too hard to do that.

 

[big beam]

There is not much point in using a protected cell in the P3D, or any other buck-circuit light.

Most of the protection circuits used today were designed with incandescent lamps in mind. When an incandescent light starts dimming the filament cools and the resistance level drops. That causes the protection circuit to either read an overload (short circuit) or for the voltage to drop below the minimum voltage threshhold.

A light with a boost circuit will continue increasing the draw from the cell as the voltage decreases to try to keep the total amount of output power the same. This will usually act similarly to the incandecent in that it will either eventually make the voltage sag enough that the low voltage protection kicks in, or the current level gets high enough that the circuit shuts down from an over-current.


A light with a buck circuit, when it drops out of regulation, will go direct drive. As the voltage of the cell drops, so does the current. It is possible for a buck-citcuit light to draw a Li-Ion cell low enough to damage it without the protection circuit kicking in. If the circuit is set to trigger at 2.5v, which many are, then the light will keep running until it is putting out almost no light, yet the circuit remains open. You should not discharge a Li-Ion cell below 2.9v or you will damage it.


What would really be nice is if manufacturers would build an intelligent circuit with 2 sets of parameters for tripping the circuit.

1) For incandescents and boosted lights where the current draw level increases toward the end of the capacity of the cell. If it detects a current level above a preset, and the cell voltage has reached a certain point it will trip. This is basically how they are now.

2) A second set of parameters for buck-circuits. If it detects a low current, it would then trip the circuit at a higher voltage, say 2.9 or 3.0v to prevent cell damage.

I bet it wouldnt be too hard to do that.

Thanks for the info(That was my thought with the P3D)

Barkingmad
So it seems like it's just a regular 17670(about 1500mah)
DON

 

[big beam]

Well I got my P3D today.Nice light.I have 8 AW's17670s that are protected and 2 fit with the label taken off.They are not snug they slide right in and out.Just been playing a little but it draws .89A on turbo with the 17670 and .61A with a powerizer rcr123(unprotected):thinking:One more thing the rubber switch cover from a rexlight 2.0 fits in the P3D and P2D lights.So if you like the textured cover more like I do slap a rex one in there.

Fenix store is great.I ordered Fri and got the light Mon.

DON

 

[datiLED]

My protected AW 17670 cell (label removed) does not fit the P3D. :sigh:

I will probably sell the P3D rather than buy additional cells, as all of my other lights are running 18650's or single cells.

 

[regulator]

Thanks Chevrofreak for the interesting info.

I felt ok running my unprotected 17670 with occasionally checking the low battery warning with Turbo mode to avoid overdischarge and ruining the battery. I was hoping to eventually find a protected cell that would fit - but I guess it is a mute point.

 

[chevrofreak]

I should clarify that I was refering specifically to using a single unprotected Li-Ion cell in a buck-circuit light. When you use multiple cells in series it is always a good idea to use protected cells, as the protection circuit will usually function as it should. In multi-cell configuration the light very rarely drops out of regulation before the protection circuit trips.

 

[big beam]

I just did a runtime test with a P3D head on the P2D body with a powerizer rcr123 battery.The battery started at 4.19V.It ran on high(not turbo) for 1hr 31mins until it started the blink thing.I took the cell out and it mesured 3.54V after this test.So I'm satisfied that it's safe to run a unprotected battery in the P3D light.I don't think you can run 2-rcr123 battreies and depend on the blink thing, because each cell would be at 1.75ish volts.YMMV

BTW the powerizer is unprotected!

DON

 

[gunga]

Thanks for the info Don,

ANy chance you could check it out with medium/low modes?

Curious about batterly life and protection with 1 RCR123 on lowe rmodes...

It might be the light I wished the P2D was...

 

[big beam]

I'm charging batts right now but I'll do it tomorrow.But what I can tell you is amp draw with the same cell at 4.19V
.05 L
.13 M
.34 H


I think as the voltage drops the amp draw goes up.
DON

BTW I think the voltage was most likely at around 3.2V that fenix said if I could mesure the light under load.I LIKE THIS LIGHT!!