Poll on ST Distribution

Flashlight Manufacturer (Non-Commercial)

  • YES

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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me persnely i wanna know about the light cause i love reading about charlies lights.there my faverite lights i love reading and loooking for his update post daily. o and i assure ya that the ramining lc will sell. all charlies lights become very ppolper .selling for big profits on ebay.i know for sure both lights will kick a$$ and everyone will want em once people get em and the reviews come in
 
I signed up for the Lioncub on faith. More info would've been nice, but okay, I've been here a year or so, I've seen the VIP and the Lionheart, I know MR Bulk makes good lights (and, I pray, no bad ones). On that info, I signed up for a Lioncub, but not for a secret society.

If the ST is really very desirable, and being sold at close to cost, that's a nice reward for the faithful. However, I prefer openness to secrecy. Should I want to sell my ST, I would also dislike taking advantage of its secret price.

Whether the price is public or secret, I imagine the laws of supply and demand will rule anyway; we can sell for whatever the market will bear. Having said that, we nice people on CPF often (if not always) sell things for what they paid for them; gouging doesn't seem to be the style. That being the case, how about this bit of glasnost: MR Bulk can publicly say that the STs are being sold to LCers at (say) a $200 "wholesale price" rather than the "manufacturer's suggested retail price" of (say) $250, as a sort of friendly give-back. Then perhaps everyone, buyers and sellers alike, can feel comfortable trading on at the higher price. No secrets, no leaks, no guilt.

I've voted No (or Yes for openness, as I think of it).
 
PS I disagree a bit with gadget_lover: I think it's great that the secrecy or openness, at least, is discussed publicly. My mood varies: sometimes I find the ST game fun, sometimes I hold xochi's view that it's strange and manipulative. It threatened to be even stranger: there was the possibility that even Cub buyers would have to buy an ST to find out what it was. The marketing aspect is good for MR Bulk and his customers alike (helps keep values up), but if overdone, I fear it may engender resentment that will benefit no one. I perceive MR Bulk as a top-notch maker and all-round stand-up guy, that's also my perception of how others here perceive him, and I want it to stay that way.
 
Call it what you want, I've already contacted Dan several times about letting me keep the remaining few LCs to maybe anodize'em a different color to give/sell to friends/others, so there is no "secret plot" afoot to "sell the remaining LC's". I care not if Dan sells them all or decorates his Christmas tree with them (as he's promised to do if this comes about), our deal was that he buy them all from me and do as he pleases with them. And even so, I am willing to relieve him of these last few so that I can "play" with them - splash anodize, tritium application, mix and match "kits" with other accessory parts, whatever. But Dan has decided to keep them all...

But just like when I receive complaints at work from the public about any of my officers speeding or whipping illegal U-turns in the middle of traffic, etc., the public does Not know what is going on behind the scenes. Many times it is because the officer receives a Priority One call over the police radio about something going down which needs immediate response, and hence they do what they gotta do to protect lives or property. That house suffering the burglary-in-progress or that motorcyclist splattered against a freeway guardrail could well belong to the complainant, and he only finds out later - in fact this has ACTUALLY HAPPENED a couple of times during my 22 LEO years.

Thus this situation is also true in the deal involving Tactical Warehouse. The arrangement came about due to the LionHeart run where I just got sick and tired of packing, shipping, selecting specific serial numbers for buyers, sorting out the individual light "order packages" which amounted to just about every one becoming a custom order (some wanted just the light alone, some the light with battery and charger, or light with just charger, light with just battery, or two batteries, or three batteries, or "I want Natural" after they had been on a bare aluminum one all along, or "I want bare aluminum" after wanting a Natural all along, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum), and it was indeed a welcome opportunity for me to have someone (TW in this case) ready and willing to take on all of this.

So I would build and then sell to TW all these LionCubs in the form of a "bulk sale", and Dan/TW would somehow come up with the money to buy them from me, after which Dan was free to do with them as he pleased, including the packing, shipping, selecting specific serial numbers for people, sorting out each light package, and even setting the final selling price.

I will state here and now that I did attempt to cancel the LionCub Project on more than one occasion, but a deal had indeed already been struck and Dan insisted on going ahead with it. He reassured me everything would be fine and I failed to convince him otherwise.

In addition, our deal was that he would foot all costs involved in working up the project (although he did it via presales anyway and again, it was none of my business how he came up with the money) so as you can see, there were Many responsibilities from which I was relieved, as well as many advantages that greatly simplified my involvement in the overall project. As most of you know, I am all about developing new lights and then offering them up, and nothing about order-taking/packing/shipping; and although I do enjoy posting about the new lights I am coming up with, it is just like how many other modders enjoy posting about their own latest mods.

The ST is my way of allowing Cub buyers to "amortize" their total costs over two products. I am not taking a loss here, I am just not making a profit. Just my way of salving the sting of the LC sales price; Dan has no involvement with the ST whatsoever.

As for the "secret handshake" and the other nice and kind and polite terms used, I am not saying that Cub buyers Cannot or Should Not disclose the cost of the ST, just that I am providing THEM the opportunity rather than going ahead and disclosing it publicly with them having no choice in the matter.

As for some of the suggestions to handle this privately, as inluxication posted above this is PRECISELY what I am doing. A public post of this nature is first necessary, for you can imagine what kind of uproar there would be if the ST were never talked about again, and suddenly the Cub buyers had them. THEN the accusations of "secret cloak and dagger" goings-on would be appropriate and indeed justified. But this way I am first putting it out there for all the world to see, letting everyone know what May eventually be taken behind the scenes.

Now as to the issue of international shipping, I had no hand nor play in this. As I said, all distribution activities subsequent to me finishing the build of LionCubs has been placed with TW/Dan. And as TW/Dan was the only one to offer this partnership, I of course accepted.

Also I doubt that any, or at least not many, here would be willing to risk the several tens of thousands of dollars of their own funds that would be necessary to finance a custom light build of this scale. Only Tactical Warehouse did.

And finally, on distribution of the ST's, I will once again resign myself - *SIGH* - much to my dislike and even abhorrence - to personally packing and shipping all international orders.

Are there any additional questions I can answer for anyone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I personally have never liked a secret handshake society. Is there a reason to hide the value of this item? I get the feeling that if I don't have "faith" that I'm not good enough to know the value of the ST. I do not think that this "poll" is in the best interest or spirit of CPF.

Is 350.00 too much for a custom light?
Only if you can't afford it, or you can't sell it.

Mr. Bulk doesn't seem to have a problem selling at this price so they must be worth the money.

Leadfoot
 
[ QUOTE ]
leadfoot said:

Mr. Bulk doesn't seem to have a problem selling at this price so they must be worth the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Bulk is not selling the LC's for $350... Dan at Tactical Warehouse is.
 
See, that's wut I'm sayin... even our favorite Bulky's doing the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif thing. That's not good; if we're not having fun here, what's the point?

Per MR Bulk's explanation, this is clearly not a plan to sell the last few LCs, but MR B having some fun making some new stuff, maybe having some fun teasing us with it too, and taking a bit of the sting out of TW's pricing (and in the process reassume some of the shipping hassle and sales risk he offloaded onto TW with the Cubs). Sounds cool to me. It's only the secrecy that's got people a bit het up. The need for secrecy, for now, about what the ST *is* is something we have to take MR Bulk's word for; I expect this to be explained at an appropriate time. The secrecy about the price is something I think we can skip, for the reasons I gave before.

We cool? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
charlie dont let it get to ya.ya lights rock i know they do and so do 97% a us .
 
[ QUOTE ]
leadfoot said:
I personally have never liked a secret handshake society.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
[ QUOTE ]
leadfoot said:
I do not think that this "poll" is in the best interest or spirit of CPF.

[/ QUOTE ]
How not? Why in quotes? Vote! Vote for openness! Glasnost!
 
[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
charlie dont let it get to ya.ya lights rock i know they do and so do 97% a us .

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, we all know the lights rock. That's not the question. (And it may not even be a light.)
 
No Charlie I did not see your post first.

I do realise that TW has a markup above what he paid you. What he paid you is none of my or anyone elses business. I don't have a problem with the price being 350.00 nor do I have a problem with the quality of your products.

Does not B/S/T rules require that prices be posted? I just don't see the need to hide the price of anything on CPF.

Leadfoot
 
The only two things being hidden at this time are:

-What the "ST" thingy is-- which has been killing us

-and what the "ST" price will be to those who qualify.

at the disclosure time if he opts for the private disclosure of what it is and how much it will cost to the people and we ALL know that EVERYONE will know what and how much no more than 10 min after finding out.

I voted keep it private mostly to keep the mystery and the stigma of the "ST" to those of us who have been pestering him for more clues about the "ST" on a daily basis.
 
[ QUOTE ]
leadfoot said:
No Charlie I did not see your post first.

I do realise that TW has a markup above what he paid you. What he paid you is none of my or anyone elses business. I don't have a problem with the price being 350.00 nor do I have a problem with the quality of your products.

Does not B/S/T rules require that prices be posted?

Leadfoot

[/ QUOTE ]

Leadfoot - of course. But you see, the ST is not being offered on B/S/T. And it probably never will.

diggdug13 - yeah, fun ain't it? Yeah, we jus' be havin' some FUN heah! Seems the only ones complaining anyway are those who are not involved in these transactions and thus have no need, nor justification, to know.../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Now I've been between a big rock and a hard place for the past several months, by not being able to speak/post freely due to the intertwined situations explained in my long post above. And so I am now finally trying to give Cub buyers a benefit, a BIG benefit - namely that of having first crack at buying the latest creation, the ST, AT COST, as well as allowing them to CHOOSE (a right every buyer intrinsically possesses) whether to disclose what figure he/she paid for it.

And yet a few of the ones who are not buying LionCubs, who will not be getting the opportunity to buy an ST, who are not involved in this very PRIVATE transaction between seller and buyer in any way, are the ones raining on our parade. Would you they go on B/S/T and dare to demand disclosure of what someone just paid for a light?

I think not.

So please, I would hope that they realize they are attempting to do that very same thing here. It is not their business, and it is not their right.

And anyway, once everyone gets their ST's and some decide to trumpet what a great deal they got or otherwise disclose the price for whatever reason, it will be perfectly within their rights to do so (or NOT), and all will (or will not) become known. I on the other hand, am actually initially protecting those rights in the event they wish not to have it disclosed. Hopefully certain people will see things from my perspective.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming FUN! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
 
I voted to reveal the ST through email instead of posting here on CPF. This is an offer made to those who have purchased the LC and not to the community at large. When the ST hits the market so to speak, then people can share their reviews or sell the ST's as they see fit.

It's unfortunate that the fun and games surrounding the Lion Cub project have distressed some people, especially the one person who should be enjoying them the most--Mr. Bulk.

I have personally enjoyed all the fun and games. It has added value for me by creating a more intimate relationship with the project and the light that I will be proud to own.

If we want to encourage people like Charlie to share thier talent with us, then I think we need to at least give them the courtesy of presuming good intentions rather than creating conspiracy and controversy.

There were some good points in this thread. I just hope people show their better sides (constructive) when sharing criticism rather than becomming party poopers and ruining the fun for others.

Greg
 
well, I voted for yes, I'm not a LC buyer. This way, there will be less post of yours(no offence but your update posts usually grow very fast) and save some bandwidth for us /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Btw this poll is stupid to place it here. You should take votes by email, this way only LC buyers can vote for the distribution of the ST. Now every cpf member can pollute/manipulate the poll. By the time ST is done and people own it, there will be probably pics and specs.

PS: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Cones, your pictures rulez.
 
Quote:

"Nine views, three votes, and - no comments?

Interesting...in fact this makes me realize something. That non-LC-buyers may be reticent to post comments (except for those who want it kept private), while LC buyers, especially those favoring privacy, will be more apt to say something. It'll be interesting to see how this thread develops in a few hours."

"And yet a few of the ones who are not buying LionCubs, who will not be getting the opportunity to buy an ST, who are not involved in this very PRIVATE transaction between seller and buyer in any way, are the ones raining on our parade."


Reticent, no doubt


Leadfoot
 
Thanks for quoting me - especially that last paragraph. It makes my point precisely. But why quote selectively? Why did you not include this quote:

"Thus the following poll - although I would think that only LionCub buyers should vote, we cannot stop anyone else from participating in the poll and therefore comment posts added by actual Cub buyers would be most appreciated."

pokkuhlag, you are dead-on correct about this poll being stupid when put up here. And it does indeed allow the anti-privacy, and perhaps non-LC buying, voters to manipulate results. Yet despite this, the tally is still greater than two to one in favor of privacy!

Now can we go back to having some FUN around here?/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
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