Powertools, Man

[orbital]

+

Now I'm all fired up on the Milwaukee FUEL Series,,,,,damn


hmm, you can never have too many tools!

 

[TedTheLed]

why? its bigger and with
less power than the smaller lighter ones above..

 

[ElectronGuru]

All the big players really, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. Really the biggest factor is how much you like each tool's ergonomics and how invested you are in a battery system.

Yeah, I can't get past the grip feel on the DeWalts.

1st impression, the big brands have their emphases like so:

Mikita - 1st with the new tech
Milwaukee - Most variations/models
DeWalt - Long research/development
Bosch - ?​

There are also smaller brands like Hilti that I'm still figuring out.

 

[skyfire]

im almost too embarrassed to say but im still using a 9.6v makita! the batteries cant even hold a charge anymore. and will self discharge in a day. LoL
luckily, ive only needed it for those occasional small jobs, and projects. ive been meaning to great a new drill forever now, but have never put in the research.
like EG did, i going to go for the latest and greatest. 9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it. heheh

i do need a belt sander for a house painting side job. maybe there will be a nice powertool set for sale at home depot...

 

[ElectronGuru]

they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe

I believe the sequence went like: makita -> milwaukee -> dewalt

Basically, makita comes out with some hot new feature on a few things, milwaukee pushes it to a whole new line of new tools, and then dewalt adds it to a few select tools. Ie, makita are the innovators, and milwaukee the risk takers (go big or go home). Then dewalt and bosch seem to pick and choose from there.

Now I'm all fired up on the Milwaukee FUEL Series,,,,,damn

The marketing from the big companies seems to create more confusion than it solves. Milwaukee got big into lithiums, changing from V to M on the lines/batteries, and now uses FUEL to mean brushless. DeWalt is more clear with BL on the motors, but less so with batteries. The latest slide in 18's are called 20's, apparently to differentiate from 18, but the new 10.8's are called 12's for the same reason?

9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it.

The advent of lithium has made the new 10/12's competitive with older 14/18's. You should have a grand time upgrading with any of the brands.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Impact drivers have gotten so powerful that screws are no longer able to keep up, literally shearing off under the strain. Like LEDs with medium and low modes, the latest models from the big three now include power settings. Here's a nice review showing the difference:

 

[Yoda4561]

And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.

Yep.

About 5 years ago I bought a Ni Cad 14.4 volt Ridgid impact driver with around 850 in/lbs, and its been powerful enough to do anything I've needed it to do so far. Keep in mind, through the gear ratios, these impact drivers are significantly more powerful than the cordless drill/drivers. Today's 18-20 volt drills run around 550-700 in/lbs. My 9 year old Ridgid Ni Cad 18v hammer drill/driver is listed at about 570in/lbs ot torque, and thats been powerful enough to drill through concrete with fairly large masonry bits, and it been powerful enough that I could install aluminum or steel threaded gutter spikes into every gutter on many client's homes, usually without having to switch batteries! Its never been stifled by any bit or nut I've thrown at it.

So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers! Or bending/breaking the driver's shaft.

 

[Yoda4561]

Ahh, that's one of the nice things about Impacts, there's little to no torque feedback to the user, only a mild pulsing sensation at most. I get way less wrist torquing than I do from a little 80 inch/lb pocket screwdriver, and compared to a 600 in/lb 18v hammerdrill it's less than pulling the trigger with an empty chuck.

 

[ElectronGuru]

So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers!

That's supposed to be one of the pluses of impacts. Torque is charged into a spring and then released against the bit without twisting against your hand.

Breaking the lock-tight on so many tailcaps has gotten painful, so this is the first feature I jumped at. Can't wait to see if it really works.


Here's a video that shows the difference (motor vs motor+impact). Pay particular attention to his grip:

 

[kaichu dento]

Remember these,,,

Wow - nostalgic to say the least, but it still looks pretty modern compared to the one of my dad's that I used to use all the time!

The new 12v lithiums have nearly the power of NiCad 18's, in some cases more (drill -> impact). For light to medium jobs, its all that you need.

Check out the Milwaukee cordless offerings now, they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe, and they are about the most powerful as far as torque is concerned as well. Milwaukee has been around a LONG time, and they make fantastic tools.

I've been using the Milwaukee M12 lineup for a couple years now and it was the torque that convinced me that they hadn't gone over to making toys for the homeowner. Great torque, smooth keyless chuck that doesn't tear up your hand and built in reserve meter so you can quickly determine whether or not to recharge.

Two tools I prefer to have a cord though are my Sawzall and circular - DeWalt DWS 535.

 

[TedTheLed]

nah, you just back off on the variable speed, that lessens the impact, you dont need to twist nuthin off..you dont have to go fast..just take it easy..

added: just saw the video above..heh, I know whats happening there: the screw got hot from the first in and out! On the third insertion it started melting the resins in the wood, then when it stopped, the resins started to cool, and it was heck to withdraw..
..also note the short length of actual thread in the vid. try 6 inches of threaded screw in and out like that, it gets hot -- but not if you go slowly.

(thats what she said)

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Ahh, that's one of the nice things about Impacts, there's little to no torque feedback to the user, only a mild pulsing sensation at most. I get way less wrist torquing than I do from a little 80 inch/lb pocket screwdriver, and compared to a 600 in/lb 18v hammerdrill it's less than pulling the trigger with an empty chuck.

Even at 1500in/lbs it doesnt twist your wrist? I havent used mine to try and loosen any really rusted or large bolts, so I havent experienced any any frozen nuts or bolts. I use my ratchet and sockets for bigger stuff. But when I have used my lower powered drill/driver to loosen some bolts and when I catch a tight one, the drill twists my wrist around if I dont have the clutch set up properly.

 

[Yoda4561]

No, the impact mechanism takes care of that. It works essentially the same way an air impact wrench does, and those put out in excess of 6000 inch pounds, there's a very short impulse and then the tool goes slack, and repeats that a few thousand times a minute. there's never any constant torque on your wrist, just some vibration, which is mostly damped by the tool's weight and some tricks in the impact mechanism's design. I don't want to give the idea that it's superior to a drill in every way, but when it comes to high torque, no-pilothole fastening it's a much kinder tool to use for your arm. This video with a milwaukee impact driver vs a top of the line drill/driver (festool is high $$$ stuff) should illustrate the difference better than I can explain it in words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGzSu5jgmPQ&feature=relmfu edit: and I see this is the same video that EG posted on the previous page, didn't see him edit that one.

 

[kaichu dento]

just saw the video above..heh, I know whats happening there: the screw got hot from the first in and out! On the third insertion it started melting the resins in the wood, then when it stopped, the resins started to cool, and it was heck to withdraw..

Nope - you don't know what's happening there because you forgot to watch the whole video and placed your presumptive reasoning in the place of observation and practical logic.
The impact driver was able to withdraw the screw immediately following the non-impact driver twisting the piece of wood around, not to mention the users wrist. What's happening there is the difference between straight torque and the way an impact driver works.

 

[ElectronGuru]

I see this is the same video that EG posted on the previous page, didn't see him edit that one.

I don't want to give the idea that it's superior to a drill in every way

Impact drivers are the hot new tool and guys are hoping they will also replace their drill. So far, the big things an impact driver can't do are 1) clutch settings for consistent power limits (perhaps less important with the 3 speed trigger) and 2) a proper bit vice. All the impacts use a 1/4 bit or socket (3/8, 1/2). Its a big reason impacts are shorter, but this also allows bits to move about:




It may not matter for quick and dirty, but its not ideal for fine control; pilot holes and such.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Is there an impact driver that has the option of shutting off the impacts for use as a drill or driver for smaller screws?

 

[DutchR]

Im a master BMW tech, and if you want something abused for power tools, look no further.



I just recently bought new cordless guns for work....


Snapon's lithium 18volt 1/2" impact. is. amazing. seriously.:huh: it has SCARY power. battery life is crazy.
http://image.snapon.com/international/pdf/ct7850nocompetitive_npa.pdf


I also purchased a Snapon screw gun/driver,

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=740395&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog


and its brother- a little cordless impact that runs off the same batteries.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=740376&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog



yes- they are expensive. yes they probably aren't needed for normal use that most people need.


BUT- when efficiency equals profits made, tools have no price on the cost of business.

 

[Yoda4561]

Very long auger bits, large hole saws, mixing thick materials (thinset, large containers of paint, etc), and grinding wheels aren't their forte. In fact don't even bother trying to mix a bigger can of paint than 1 gallon or any amount of thinset, it'll just go into impact mode and you won't get anywhere. Also if you're working in a location that demands quiet, while the impact mechanism on these small drivers isn't that loud of itself, when it gets coupled into a finished wall or sheetmetal during a renovation in a working office space, putting dozens or hundreds of fasteners with an impact while folks are trying to work 20 feet away on spreadsheets and things can be rather aggravating. (on the flipside if it's a situation where the tool gets you out of their hair that much faster it's not such a bad tradeoff.)

 

[Yoda4561]

Is there an impact driver that has the option of shutting off the impacts for use as a drill or driver for smaller screws?

Yes, there are some newer models that have this function. Makita and Bosch have one, I'm not sure about others. I'm unsure how practical it is exactly since you're always going to have more runout with an impact's hex chuck. With smaller screws feathering the triggers (which are pretty nice these days) is usually a better option. Drilling smaller holes with an impact only usually doesn't cause problems, since a sharp drill bit doesn't provide enough resistance for the impact mode to kick in most of the time. The only issue is finding a high quality hex-shaft drill bit that's long enough. The impact rated ones from dewalt work well though they're rather short, but if you just need a hole in a 2x and don't need it to look perfect a normal impact driver works fine.