geepondy
Flashlight Enthusiast
They claim 600-700 lumens (Fenix Tk40, ITP A6). This is more then a Surefire M6 with a MN21 no less (500 lumens). Are these MC-E lights really brighter then a Surefire M6?
Question about these new MC-E lights?
- Thread starter geepondy
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DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
You have to put into account that it is 600-700 emitter lumens, not out the front.
This means, at the emitter itself, it puts out that much light.
However after taking into account all of the mediums the light has to travel through (lens, air etc) it will be significantly less, and this will be the out the front reading, which is alot more accurate, and this is the method that Surefire use to underate their lights.
:thumbsup:
My MN20 in my Surefire M6 is very close to the intensity of my Olight M30... and the MN20 is only rated at 250 Lumens.
Also, take into account that the M6 is an Incan, not LED... but I won't start an argument on the different output for LED vs Incan :nana:
This means, at the emitter itself, it puts out that much light.
However after taking into account all of the mediums the light has to travel through (lens, air etc) it will be significantly less, and this will be the out the front reading, which is alot more accurate, and this is the method that Surefire use to underate their lights.
:thumbsup:
My MN20 in my Surefire M6 is very close to the intensity of my Olight M30... and the MN20 is only rated at 250 Lumens.
Also, take into account that the M6 is an Incan, not LED... but I won't start an argument on the different output for LED vs Incan :nana:
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Marduke
Flashaholic
That depends entirely upon the light. I assume he is NOT referring to the cheap junk on DX and such. There are a number of lights which do >600 OTF lumens.
DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
That is why I explained the difference, and used an example with my Olight M30.
To my understanding, the TK40 isn't putting 600 Lumens out the front :shrug:
Could you be more helpful by giving an example of a MCE that does put 600-700 Lumens out the front?
Rather than just make out that I am stupid and run away.
To my understanding, the TK40 isn't putting 600 Lumens out the front :shrug:
Could you be more helpful by giving an example of a MCE that does put 600-700 Lumens out the front?
Rather than just make out that I am stupid and run away.
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Marduke
Flashaholic
That is why I explained the difference, and used an example with my Olight M30.
To my understanding, the TK40 isn't putting 600 Lumens out the front :shrug:
Could you be more helpful by giving an example of a MCE that does put 600-700 Lumens out the front?
Rather than just make out that I am stupid and run away.
There is a sticky at the top of the subforum...
DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
It doesn't mean people can't get help.
Marduke
Flashaholic
I was answering your question, not his.
DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
I see that, but fail to find one over 600 Lumens like originally stated.
I am having to quickly skim over it as I am getting ready for work, so I may well of missed one.
I am having to quickly skim over it as I am getting ready for work, so I may well of missed one.
Marduke
Flashaholic
You missed several MC-E/P7 lights that meet 600lm...
You can also compare those lights with other reviewed lights for relative output.
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DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
:shrug:
Ok dude.
This is the only MCE that I found to exceed 600Lumen
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,_617__turn-on_3.82V_4.20A_16.04Watts__Reg Supply___No host at all.
The only flaw is the fact that it is nothing to do with OP's request as:
A) It doesn't have a host, and is a drop-in.
B) It is not a mass produced light like OP requested info on.
Never did OP mention a P7... you have strayed off topic in your quest to try make me seem stupid and therefore your post is invalid.
Yes I may of missed some, but if you can read a long list while getting ready for work, when you have 15 minutes to leave, good on you.
My point is, you came into this thread with an attitude. Trying to make me look foolish. Then you backed your 'idea' with invalid information.
I don't need info on MCE lights... the OP asked for help.
You have yet to show me or OP a mass produced, MCE light that will emit 600-700 Lumens out the front, like you boldly stated.
Quite frankly I don't appreciate your attitude towards me and your posts are boarder line trolling in my opinion.
Are you one of those guys that like to start arguments over the internet?
You are giving me this impression very strongly right now.
So why is it you can't just list some lights that do what OP asked already???
:shrug:
Ok dude.
This is the only MCE that I found to exceed 600Lumen
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,_617__turn-on_3.82V_4.20A_16.04Watts__Reg Supply___No host at all.
The only flaw is the fact that it is nothing to do with OP's request as:
A) It doesn't have a host, and is a drop-in.
B) It is not a mass produced light like OP requested info on.
Never did OP mention a P7... you have strayed off topic in your quest to try make me seem stupid and therefore your post is invalid.
Yes I may of missed some, but if you can read a long list while getting ready for work, when you have 15 minutes to leave, good on you.
My point is, you came into this thread with an attitude. Trying to make me look foolish. Then you backed your 'idea' with invalid information.
I don't need info on MCE lights... the OP asked for help.
You have yet to show me or OP a mass produced, MCE light that will emit 600-700 Lumens out the front, like you boldly stated.
Quite frankly I don't appreciate your attitude towards me and your posts are boarder line trolling in my opinion.
Are you one of those guys that like to start arguments over the internet?
You are giving me this impression very strongly right now.
So why is it you can't just list some lights that do what OP asked already???
:shrug:
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berry580
Flashlight Enthusiast
and how long does it ACTUALLY have 600 lumens+ for?
No point having 600 lumens for 10 minutes then nose dive.....
No point having 600 lumens for 10 minutes then nose dive.....
geepondy
Flashlight Enthusiast
The Surefire M6 has long been considered a holy grail of incandescent lighting. In the review sections I've seen comparisons of MC-E lights against other lights (I don't even know what an "ROP" light is) but I haven't seen any compared to a M6 and think it would be a neat comparison. I'm interested to see how the ITP A6 performs given it's size and price point.
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
Fenix uses emitter lumens like most everyone else but...
They also have high quality AR coated lenses so get 80% of claimed lumens OTF. So the TK40 rated at 630 lumens will have ~504 OTF lumens.
Many companies that sell through DX just use 900 lumens (that was the SSC spec for an unobtanium top bin P7 at one time). So an actual early 2008 LED is capable of maybe on average 700 lumens (670-740) at 2.8A. But the early DX lights only push 2.2A through the LED (I never got above 2.1A on my MTE). Now the emitter lumens is down to ~525 lumens. The cheap lights' reflector & lenses absorb maybe 1/3 of the light giving ~350 lumens OTF. Even if you get a top end LED (740 lumens) the OTF is only 370 lumens.
370 lumens for a 900 claim is a lot different than 504 for a 630 claim.
Fenix uses the latest LEDs they can get.
The original L0D CE spec was based on a P2 bin XR-E.
The very 1st batch shipped came with a P3 bin.
All subsequent batches have P4 bin or better.
A P4 bin would match the spec and a Q2 bin would exceed the spec.
I bought 4 of them over a 6 month period and can see the difference.
Remember there is a +-5% variance in brightness on any bin in an LED. There is also a 5% variance in driver boards. So any LED light can be 10% different than an identical light. So do not get too hung up with an exact lumen number. Even if that number is obtained with an integrating sphere OTF measurement there is a very large chance your light will not have the same lumens.
As to Surefire M6 vs the TK40.
The Surefire will seem brighter for a walk in the woods because the incan has more yellow/orange showing off brown tree trunks and mud trails better.
The Fenix is better downtown because the blue spike in the LED spectrum will make light gray concrete walls seem brighter.
Different uses for different lights. We are comparing apples and oranges here.
They also have high quality AR coated lenses so get 80% of claimed lumens OTF. So the TK40 rated at 630 lumens will have ~504 OTF lumens.
Many companies that sell through DX just use 900 lumens (that was the SSC spec for an unobtanium top bin P7 at one time). So an actual early 2008 LED is capable of maybe on average 700 lumens (670-740) at 2.8A. But the early DX lights only push 2.2A through the LED (I never got above 2.1A on my MTE). Now the emitter lumens is down to ~525 lumens. The cheap lights' reflector & lenses absorb maybe 1/3 of the light giving ~350 lumens OTF. Even if you get a top end LED (740 lumens) the OTF is only 370 lumens.
370 lumens for a 900 claim is a lot different than 504 for a 630 claim.
Fenix uses the latest LEDs they can get.
The original L0D CE spec was based on a P2 bin XR-E.
The very 1st batch shipped came with a P3 bin.
All subsequent batches have P4 bin or better.
A P4 bin would match the spec and a Q2 bin would exceed the spec.
I bought 4 of them over a 6 month period and can see the difference.
Remember there is a +-5% variance in brightness on any bin in an LED. There is also a 5% variance in driver boards. So any LED light can be 10% different than an identical light. So do not get too hung up with an exact lumen number. Even if that number is obtained with an integrating sphere OTF measurement there is a very large chance your light will not have the same lumens.
As to Surefire M6 vs the TK40.
The Surefire will seem brighter for a walk in the woods because the incan has more yellow/orange showing off brown tree trunks and mud trails better.
The Fenix is better downtown because the blue spike in the LED spectrum will make light gray concrete walls seem brighter.
Different uses for different lights. We are comparing apples and oranges here.
DimeRazorback
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for all that info LEDninja :twothumbs
So it seems that the TK40 isn't up there in the 600 range... which is what I thought.
I like how you mentioned the difference in output depending on where abouts you are using the certain lights. It follows with the idea I was trying to get out in my first post... I was having troubles getting my words out :nana:
So it seems that the TK40 isn't up there in the 600 range... which is what I thought.
I like how you mentioned the difference in output depending on where abouts you are using the certain lights. It follows with the idea I was trying to get out in my first post... I was having troubles getting my words out :nana:
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cdosrun
Enlightened
4-Sevens has a prototype MCE torch that id going to be release shortly and it is rated at >=500 OTF lumens.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2337387&postcount=353
I think it is quite incredible that LEDs are now available with this kind of output at reasonable efficiency from a battery. I still keep a Lux3 Fenix in my car! I would be keen to see how this torch matches up to a M6 - I suspect the latter will have better throw.
Andrew
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2337387&postcount=353
I think it is quite incredible that LEDs are now available with this kind of output at reasonable efficiency from a battery. I still keep a Lux3 Fenix in my car! I would be keen to see how this torch matches up to a M6 - I suspect the latter will have better throw.
Andrew
berry580
Flashlight Enthusiast
it feels like Fenix likes to use the most common LED they can get their hands on like the XR-E Q5 & R2 and MC-E... some of their latest offerings still has Q5. For me, it kind of feels like they're saying to me....... "yeah, the wrapper is different but the juice is the same, I know you guys are stupid and will buy it anyway"
Seriously, they have to get their games up.
Seriously, they have to get their games up.
Marduke
Flashaholic
Correction, they use emitter lumens on SOME of their lights. Other lights ARE OTF lumens.
IIRC, the TK40 is one of the latter, along with the rest of their T series...
berry580
Flashlight Enthusiast
jahxman's ceiling bounce test find the M1X noticably brighter than TK40.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3079058&postcount=166
M1X's OTF lumen is rated at 450, i'll find it difficult to believe TK40's 640 lumen is OTF.
2/3 x 640 = about 426, just under M1X's 450 lumen. Empirical evidence apparently coincides with theoretical data.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3079058&postcount=166
M1X's OTF lumen is rated at 450, i'll find it difficult to believe TK40's 640 lumen is OTF.
2/3 x 640 = about 426, just under M1X's 450 lumen. Empirical evidence apparently coincides with theoretical data.
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Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do you have any proof of that?
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