Question about these new MC-E lights?

[Outdoors Fanatic]

jahxman's ceiling bounce test find the M1X noticably brighter than TK40.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3079058&postcount=166
M1X's OTF lumen is rated at 450, i'll find it difficult to believe TK40's 640 lumen is OTF.

2/3 x 640 = about 426, just under M1X's 450 lumen. Empirical evidence apparently coincides with theoretical data.

According to my tests, the M1X is noticeably brighter than the TK40 as well.

 

[recDNA]

it feels like Fenix likes to use the most common LED they can get their hands on like the XR-E Q5 & R2 and MC-E... some of their latest offerings still has Q5. For me, it kind of feels like they're saying to me....... "yeah, the wrapper is different but the juice is the same, I know you guys are stupid and will buy it anyway"

Seriously, they have to get their games up.

Their lights are already the best IMO

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Their lights are already the best IMO

Best? JetBeams spank the living crap out any Fenix, not to mention SureFire, Ra, HDS, Novatac, McGizmo, Muyshondt, Arc...

 

[HKJ]

According to my tests, the M1X is noticeably brighter than the TK40 as well.

There exist (at least) two version of M1X, the first version was the one with 450 lumen and it is not brighter than TK40, as can be seen from the ceiling bounce test I have done.
With the test I have done I believe that the 630 lumen are close to the correct value for TK40.
The M6 is an incan and has a steady declining output, SF has not specified when they have measured the 500 lumen. Was it with fresh batteries or after 5 minutes or 10 minutes? That would be very different results.

 

[mikekoz]

The only proof I have of the Fenix TK40's 630 OTF lumens are from information I have read here on the forum. The ceiling bounce test looks interesting, however, to my eyes, the TK40 is noticably brighter than my Solarforce L950, and my Eagletac M2XC4. The Solarforce was rated at 900 lumens and the Eagletac 700 I believe. Neither are what they claim OTF. The Fenix was rated at 630 lumens and beats them both where it counts...in actual use!

 

[mikekoz]

Correction, they use emitter lumens on SOME of their lights. Other lights ARE OTF lumens.

IIRC, the TK40 is one of the latter, along with the rest of their T series...

:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

There exist (at least) two version of M1X, the first version was the one with 450 lumen and it is not brighter than TK40, as can be seen from the ceiling bounce test I have done.
With the test I have done I believe that the 630 lumen are close to the correct value for TK40.
The M6 is an incan and has a steady declining output, SF has not specified when they have measured the 500 lumen. Was it with fresh batteries or after 5 minutes or 10 minutes? That would be very different results.

My M1X is the 3rd gen (Olive Drab), I did not test the 1st gen. The 3rd gen is definitely brighter than the TK40, no doubt about that.

The M6 on fresh cells delivers at least 700+ lumens out the front. I believe 500 is a ballpark figure after the cells are half drained. That's my estimation based on several SF incandescent lamp assemblies I tested before... The MN21 is clearly brighter than the TK40 even when the batteries aren't fresh. Even the IMR-M3T and the WA1111 is brighter than the TK40. Not to mention the ROP...

 

[bigchelis]

:shrug:

Ok dude.

This is the only MCE that I found to exceed 600Lumen
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,_617__turn-on_3.82V_4.20A_16.04Watts__Reg Supply___No host at all.

The only flaw is the fact that it is nothing to do with OP's request as:

A) It doesn't have a host, and is a drop-in.

B) It is not a mass produced light like OP requested info on.

Never did OP mention a P7... you have strayed off topic in your quest to try make me seem stupid and therefore your post is invalid.
Yes I may of missed some, but if you can read a long list while getting ready for work, when you have 15 minutes to leave, good on you.

My point is, you came into this thread with an attitude. Trying to make me look foolish. Then you backed your 'idea' with invalid information.

I don't need info on MCE lights... the OP asked for help.
You have yet to show me or OP a mass produced, MCE light that will emit 600-700 Lumens out the front, like you boldly stated.

Quite frankly I don't appreciate your attitude towards me and your posts are boarder line trolling in my opinion.
Are you one of those guys that like to start arguments over the internet?
You are giving me this impression very strongly right now.

So why is it you can't just list some lights that do what OP asked already???

:shrug:

That drop-in tested was mine and with a single IMR 18650 in a 6P hosts it had 4.5A at the tail Then it was with a hosts about 420 out the front in MrGmans test.

Also,
Nailbender has an IS Sphere that MrGman used and Calibrated for him. I have a 2C Mag MC-E that was tested in the same IS Sphere as in post #3 of the MrGman sticky and it made 610 out the front at 8~9 Watts of power. It appears that less total watts under load via regulation makes these MC-E lights perform better than DD them at 4~4.5A at the tail: which makes me wonder what the current is at the LED.

MC-E lights driven at 2.5~2.8A will give you an honest 550 out the front if the heatsink is massive like a Mag MC-E heatsink, but in a P60 drop-in Gene holds the record with 480 out the front with his cool version.

bigC

 

[bigchelis]

Another thing I try to keep in mind is at what watts the out the front lumens are achieved. If I have a 16watt light making 600 out the front IMHO this is not good. I want 600 lumens out the front at 10~12 watts and no more.

Here is the MC-E Malkoff drop-in tested by MrGman.

For comparison the Malkoff P60 drop-in direct drive at 16 watts of power made similar out the front readings, but the out the front lumens drop reall quick due to heat and the direct drive nature of the beast. Look at the initial turn -on peak and the warm 3 second mark in a my 6P bored with IMR 18650 and UCL lens.
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,________457__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650,_________SureFire 6P_ Bezel AR coated Glass,
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,________406__warm,_____________1_IMR 18650,_________SureFire 6P_ Bezel AR coated glass,



MCE-Cool-----This is with a fan running but the unit is warmed up so the turn on peak readings up to 500 lumens will not be seen. Shows the regulation control in the driver chip.
Volts----------Amps-----watts-----lumens
4.53______0.35_____1.59____130.1
4.74______1.21_____5.72____349.0
5.06______1.76_____8.93____445.7
5.26______1.70_____8.92____430.5
5.51______1.76_____9.69____453.3
5.77______1.71_____9.84____445.7
5.98______1.66_____9.95____451.4
6.28______1.58_____9.93____447.6
6.54______1.48_____9.70____443.8
6.74______1.44_____9.72____443.8
7.02______1.38_____9.68____443.8
7.22______1.26_____9.12____449.5
7.51______1.21_____9.08____449.5
7.76______1.16_____9.04____449.5
8.01______1.12_____9.00____445.7
8.25______1.09_____8.99____445.7
8.48______1.06_____8.96____443.8
8.66______1.04_____8.99____449.5
8.82______1.02_____9.03____443.8
9.05______1.00_____9.01____443.8
9.27______0.97_____9.00____443.8
9.52______0.94_____8.95____443.8
9.94______0.91_____9.02____443.8

 

[berry580]

I'm having a hard time believing TK40 has 630 OTF lumens, but HKJ, you have my respect. Feels like you're one the dependable guy like Selfbuilt.
Can you tell us how did you come up to the conclusion that TK40's OTF output is close to 630 lumens?

Also, if thats true, does that mean the non-1st gen of M1X has a higher OTF output than 450lumens?

thank you.

There exist (at least) two version of M1X, the first version was the one with 450 lumen and it is not brighter than TK40, as can be seen from the ceiling bounce test I have done.
With the test I have done I believe that the 630 lumen are close to the correct value for TK40.
The M6 is an incan and has a steady declining output, SF has not specified when they have measured the 500 lumen. Was it with fresh batteries or after 5 minutes or 10 minutes? That would be very different results.

 

[HKJ]

I'm having a hard time believing TK40 has 630 OTF lumens, but HKJ, you have my respect. Feels like you're one the dependable guy like Selfbuilt.

Thanks, I try the best I can.

Can you tell us how did you come up to the conclusion that TK40's OTF output is close to 630 lumens?

Mostly from doing many ceiling bounce comparisons with other lights, and comparing this to known lumen measurements of other lights. As can be seen on outdoor fanatic's (and my own) measurements, the TK40 is on of the most powerful MC-E/P7 lights and has to be around 600 lumen to make the values from other lights fit.

Measurements like these http://light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=122 also help confirm my feeling for TK40.

But none of this is exact lumen measurements, only estimates, based on measurements with unknown precision.

Also, if thats true, does that mean the non-1st gen of M1X has a higher OTF output than 450lumens?

thank you.

When the manufacturers of some lights found out that they where low on output, compared to other MC-E/P7 light, they increased the output. M1X is one of these and EagleTac M2C4 might also have increased output.
Based on my measurements and outdoor fanatic's measurements I would guess that M1X has about 50% increase in output from gen1.

 

[bigchelis]

I myself would love to know what the Fenix TK40 MC-E light really makes out the front.


If you own a MC-E TK40 please send it to MrGman or Nailbender for testing.:thumbsup: