Rechargeable Surefire G2

[3000k]

I have a Surefire 6P with a M60W and rechargeable rcr123 batteries which work great. I also have a Surefire G2 with a P61 lamp. I love the color and the beam pattern of the P60 and P61 lamps but I have read on this forum that using rechargeable batteries with an incan lamp will cause it to instaflash. I would love to get some sort of rechargeable battery that would work with these lamps. The surefire battery kit seems overpriced. Is there some other incan dropin I could buy that would allow me to use rechargeable batteries? The rechargeable batteries I have are 3v not 3.7

 

[ampdude]

Yes, the AW safe chemistry LiFe-P04 or the voltage regulated 3V lithium-ion rechargeables will generally flash the 6V bulbs or at least reduce their lifespan a great deal because the voltage sag with them is not as much as with 3V lithium primaries, so the bulbs are running higher voltage than spec.

I have wanted to use AW's LiFe-P04 batteries with the bulbs you mentioned, in addition to the E-series 6v bulbs, the MN02 and MN03, but I have not heard any real success stories, so I have avoided doing so.

I think your best bet at a practical and bright rechargeable Surefire G2 is running a 9v lamp like the Surefire P90, or Lumens Factory SR-9 or HO-9 with a pair of AW's IMR16340 cells.

 

[Dioni]

I have used a cheap one: DX drop in [sku.3246] + AW17670!

Cheers,
Dioni

 

[hyperloop]

Hi,

I've used this 10w 7.4v bulb and this 15w 7.4v bulb in my Surefire G2 (but mine had a glass lens) with 2xRCR123s with no issues.

Very nice warm incand tones. I now use a Lumens Factory HO-9 in my G2 with 2xRCR123s.

 

[nzgunnie]

One of my standard setups is a P90 on two AW RCR123s.

If you wanted to run the P91 you would need to go to teh IMR cells, but the run time would be so short as to be a bit of a waste of time.

I get about 40min on the P90 on RCR123s, although I usually recharge before then.

Lumens factory also make some very nice 9v lamps you could use.

 

[BIGLOU]

3000k the SF kit is overpriced but I have seen some used ones on Ebay. Maybe you could find a charger and buy the extender and the B65 battery directly for SF. FYI the kit works with the P60 and the P60L. Avoid using the P61 with this set up which will blow the bulb from my experience.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Go with the P90 or SR-9 + 2x16340 IMR cells.

 

[nzgunnie]

Go with the P90 or SR-9 + 2x16340 IMR cells.

Why the IMR cells? Both these lamps are within the operating range of AWs RCR123a cells, surely they give you more capacity and longer run times?

 

[Black Rose]

Why the IMR cells? Both these lamps are within the operating range of AWs RCR123a cells, surely they give you more capacity and longer run times?

Running incans with LiCo cells can shorten the life of the LiCo cells.

I've already shortened the life of a pair of 16340 LiCo cells using the drop-ins that Hyperloop linked to, as they draw more than 2C from the cells.

 

[nzgunnie]

Running incans with LiCo cells can shorten the life of the LiCo cells.

I've already shortened the life of a pair of 16340 LiCo cells using the drop-ins that Hyperloop linked to, as they draw more than 2C from the cells.

But at 1.5amps for the P90, this is only just 2C for AW RCR123s (which are 750 mAh).

 

[Black Rose]

They are labelled as 750 mAh, but under load they vary:

IMR cells are just better at delivering the power that incan and other high drain lights need.
The IMR 16340 cells can be discharged safely at 8C.

 

[ampdude]

But at 1.5amps for the P90, this is only just 2C for AW RCR123s (which are 750 mAh).

The P90 is usually around 1.1-1.2A.

 

[nzgunnie]

The P90 is usually around 1.1-1.2A.

Even better. I've measured mine often enough but couldn't quite remember which lamps gave which readings.

 

[Chrontius]

One of my standard setups is a P90 on two AW RCR123s.

If you wanted to run the P91 you would need to go to teh IMR cells, but the run time would be so short as to be a bit of a waste of time.

Not really; if you understand that this is a tactical light, and is only properly to be used for completely startling people who don't expect an entire building to be lit up or for doing violence in protection of life and limb, or interfering in such equivalent crises, it's a great setup and part of my EDC gear now.

In practice, it gets used in squirts when I'm walking from very bright to very dark illumination and don't have time to let my eyes adjust, and is charged once a week. I calculate about eight (glorious) minutes of runtime until dead, and have yet to run it down in any one week of normal use. Brightness ... not far from ROP-LO on fresh cells.


Edit: I'll second the original question. How best to get the same effect as turning on a fresh P60, guilt free? Available hosts are 6p, G2Z, and a Solarforce frankenweaponlight that's slowly coming together.

 

[mdocod]

The best route is to move up to a pair of 3.7V cells and run a "9V" lamp assembly. Technically speaking, the lamps designed for use with 3xCR123 cells are actually ~7-8V bulbs, so they run just fine on a pair of 3.7V cells. (Lithium primary cells are rated 3V, but run lower than 3V under a load, more like 2.5V or less under most tactical incan loads). Whereas, a 3.7V lithium rechargeable carries a label voltage rating that represents something closer to the average voltage output during a discharge. (They come off the charger at 4.2V give or take a few hundredths).

Regular protected 3.7V LiCo chemistry RCR123s are often rated between 750 and 900mAH capacity. Realistically, they are more like 550-650mAH under most loads. The maximum safe load for these cells is going to be ~1.2A if used in continuous discharge applications. In short bursts, they can be safely used up to 1.5A and higher. In either case, the absolute limits of the cell are being pushed, and the cycle life will be dramatically reduced.

For reliability, cycle life, and safety, I always recommend LiMn chemistry (IMR) RCR123s over LICo chemistry cells in incandescent applications. The IMR cell when operated at that same 1.2-1.5A range, is not stressed to any significant margin. The cells will maintain good cycle life and maintain better average useful capacity and performance over the life of the cell compared to LiCo cells.

Now... we are trying to replicate the rough performance of a P61.

A P61 runs at about 4.4V 2.5A, or about 11W. These high drain rates on CR123s do cause voltage to sag this much (it's NOT a 6V bulb).

A P90 or SR-9 or many other standard output "9V" lamps, will run about 7.5V 1.2A, or 9W (on either 2x3.7V cells or 3xCR123 cells). Not quite the output of a P61 but very close. These lamps will generally have a tighter beam profile than the P61. More like the P60 but with more output.

Moving up to an HO-9 will bring those numbers closer to the P61, ~7.4V 1.55A, about 11W. The beam profile of the HO-9 will likely be a hair tighter than the P61, but will probably satisfy the requirement.

Running the HO-9 on a pair of IMR16340 cells will result in about the same 20 minutes run-time that you were getting from the P61 on primary cells, but instead of replacing cells, you are just recharging them. You will recover the cost of a handful of cells and charger pretty quickly if you use this light frequently.

Make a point to shut off the light at the first sign of sudden and significant dimming. Recharge often when possible (shallow cycles are perfectly fine for Li-Ion cells and will increase over-all useful life of the cell).

Enjoy

Eric

 

[3000k]

Is the HO-9 another p60 dropin and are the IMR16340 cells protected? The current 3.0V Tenergy cells that I now have are protected and wont even light up the p61.

 

[mdocod]

Hello 3000K,

The HO-9 from LumensFactory is a D26 style lamp module and will work in just about any light that accepts a "P60" type lamp.

IMR16340s are not protected, however, this should not be considered a negative.

The reason regular LiCo cells need to be protected is for safety reasons. When Lithium Cobalt chemistry cells "go-off" (combustion) they produce their own oxygen during the burn, which accelerates it, while at the same time, produce harmful toxic excrement, (hydrofluoric acid in gas and liquid form as I understand). The odds of having this happen are pretty low, but are exponentially increased when the cell is repeatedly abused. (over-discharged, over-charged, or drained too quickly). The protection circuit in your 3.0V (buck regulated LiCo cells) are preventing you from using the P61 as a safety precaution. The P61 would be at least a 4C load or higher on the cells, and the voltage-bucking diode would generate major heat at these discharge levels, which would be further cause for concern.

LiMn and LiFePO4 chemistry cells are often categorized as "safe lithium" chemistry cells. They can handle much more abuse (in the form of fast discharge rates and over-charge/discharge) than ordinary Lithium Cobalt chemistry cells before venting. When they do "go-off," they do not produce their own oxygen to fuel the burn and produce far fewer toxic excrement.

Fast discharging and fast charging and over-charge and over-discharge are all going to reduce the useful cycle life of a LiMn cell, but it is very rare (pushing non-existent) to experience a catastrophic failure with LiMn chemistry cells when used within reasonable perameters. They can be thought of as ALMOST as safe as a NIMH cell (NIMH cells are NEVER protected).

With all of this in mind. The need for a protection circuit is drastically reduced. A protection circuit adds resistance, which will reduce performance in direct drive applications (most incans). A protection circuit is also just another failure point. If the circuit fails, it can render a cell useless very suddenly. By eliminating the circuit on IMR cells, we are actually improving overall reliability.

-Eric

Is the HO-9 another p60 dropin and are the IMR16340 cells protected? The current 3.0V Tenergy cells that I now have are protected and wont even light up the p61.

 

[Chrontius]

Since we've got a great P61 replacement, anyone got one for the humble p60?

 

[mdocod]

Since we've got a great P61 replacement, anyone got one for the humble p60?

ES-9 is pretty close but won't run quite as long. Very similar overall output, beam will likely be different.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

ES-9 is pretty close but won't run quite as long. Very similar overall output, beam will likely be different.

It will run for more time, as long as you use 2x17500 (or larger cells).

The ES-9 throws better than the P60.

Cheers.