Recommendations for custom light / someone to build it please!

[whitenoise]

So I've been looking around the threads getting information about dive lights. As mentioned by linger the more I read, the more an off-the-shelf recommendation is no longer for me. Since you guys are the extremely intelligent ones :bow: I've decided to ask if anyone could make me a custom dive light?

First up, I'm after a hand-held light rather than a can light. This is because I want to be able to take the light on holiday, and I'm not a techie diver so can lights, umbilicals, Goodman handles etc are all over my head. My diving will only be recreational single-tank diving up to the 35m range, but will be dives in the UK (low vis), but also in blue water (Mediterranean, Red sea, Caribbean etc). So this type of diving will be a mixture of wrecks, wall dives, reefs, general topography, swim-throughs, caverns (not caves) low vis, quite varied really.

I've been looking at packhorses W200 mods (they look good) and wquiles super-bright barbo light which look great! I don't have the budget to go for custom machined hosts, so its probably going to have to be a mode an existing host, which makes me think of the W200 and the barbo hosts etc.

Now this type of varied diving is where my lack of knowledge might come in play. I'm not after a tight tight "pencil" beam since I actually want to light up what I am looking at! Consequently I think a really intense hotspot without any spill might be too "intense". I'm not a professional photographer (or any type!) so a massive flood is not needed, but a decent enough spill/flood (sorry if I'm not using the right terms) would be great. I don't need lots of throw, since generally I'm going to be within a meter or two of what I am looking at anyway. I can't really say a "degree" of what I'm after, as honestly I couldn't say!

In terms of brightness, I'm after a bright light. I don't know much about the technical terms (emitters/bin/die) etc, but I've been reading around and it seems that R2, MC-E M-bin and P7 leds are the ones being talked about as the brightest ones at the moment. Now these could be all the same led, or just different types so you will have to excuse my lack of knowledge here! Looking at wquiles thread about the modified 3x MC-E M-bin light was just awesome - but I've no idea on cost, practically etc.

A couple of light "stages" would be good, say 100%, 50%, 30% something like that? This way the light could be dimmed down on night dives, rather turning a night into a day dive! I did think about a 10% mode or something for emergencies on the surface, but I like the idea of a post I saw here somewhere. It said about using Javier's battery canister with some backup batteries inside, so if you needed the torch for signalling on the surface, you knew you had a backup. Not sure if this practical though, depending on battery size.

I've no idea if any of this has made any sense(!), or if this is possible, it's completely up to you guys to recommend something, and then for some-one to build it! This might be completely wrong, but Packhorse did mention something about 2 R2's and 2 MCE's, switchable between the two? Would this give a narrow beam when the R2's where on and a wider beam when the MCE's where on? Ideally a focusable light would be great, but I see from Javier's posts about the U-04 and U-15 we are not quite there yet.

Anyways, over to you

 

[MrNaz]

Check out my other thread for the light I just finished building. It's extremely bright, pushing 1A through 4x R2 emitters. It should be about as bright as Packhorse's quad-Q5 mag, maybe a *little* less (he's pushing 1.4A through the slightly less efficient Q5s).

However, it's a hand held light with a burn time of around 3 hours. If you want a hand held light and don't mind it being on the large size (a tad larger than a 3D mag) then this is, IMHO, the best there is. Well, of course I'd think that, I designed it to fit my desires perfectly :laughing:

I'll likely have some for sale within about a month for about the $900 mark. Watch this space.

 

[Packhorse]

What is your budget?
How long of a run time do you require? (Unless its a night dive or cave dive you will probably only have your light on full for half the time).
How big can it be? ( smaller the better for a hand held but larger the better in terms of reflector size)

and I'm not a techie diver so can lights, umbilicals, Goodman handles etc are all over my head.

Sorry but I just dont understand this statement. A can light is not a technical piece of diving equipment. Its a style of light used by ALL types of divers and offers some great advantages over a hand held light.
You can have a very compact light head, you can have heaps of run time, and with a goodman handle you can free up your hand for other duties.

Perhaps you dont want one due to cost and size issues?

 

[whitenoise]

Budget wise I'd say around £350 ($830ish NZ, $670ish AD, €400) although for custom made lights, I don't know if this would be enough for what I was looking for? If not could stretch to a little more, but bear in mind I'd have to pay 15% tax on top of this for any imports from outside of the EU, so that has to be taken into account. That probably rules out your light MrNaz I'm afraid.

Run times, say 2 hours? I don't do any diving which is usually above an hour, but would like it to last for 2 dives. Like you said though your light isn't going to be on all the time, so slightly less is fine if it makes things easier.

For size wise, I'm quite flexible again. I'm not looking for a "super compact" to put in a pocket or something, so it can be wide, long, come with a handle whatever. The main thing is that it does the job. I know this isn't very helpful, so sorry about that, but I don't want to say "no bigger than a certain size" which could potentially remove an option which might be perfect.

In terms of can lights, I guess its because my complete lack of experience with them. I've never used them, and no-one in my diving club has either, so I guess its a fear of the unknown! I can see the benefits, but not sure if I like the idea of something strapped to the cylinder with the umbilical coming round to the head. I don't like the idea of the head being permanently strapped to my wrist, maybe that's weird but hey!

 

[MrNaz]

Budget wise I'd say around £350 ($830ish NZ, $670ish AD, €400) although for custom made lights, I don't know if this would be enough for what I was looking for? If not could stretch to a little more, but bear in mind I'd have to pay 15% tax on top of this for any imports from outside of the EU, so that has to be taken into account. That probably rules out your light MrNaz I'm afraid.

If you're still on the market in a few weeks, then I'll probably be willing to sell you the prototype for something within your budget. It's anodized in natural though, and doesn't look colourful, but its bright, tough and runs over 3h on a charge. You'll need to find your own way to charge the 6 18650 batteries though.

Run times, say 2 hours? I don't do any diving which is usually above an hour, but would like it to last for 2 dives. Like you said though your light isn't going to be on all the time, so slightly less is fine if it makes things easier.

For size wise, I'm quite flexible again. I'm not looking for a "super compact" to put in a pocket or something, so it can be wide, long, come with a handle whatever. The main thing is that it does the job. I know this isn't very helpful, so sorry about that, but I don't want to say "no bigger than a certain size" which could potentially remove an option which might be perfect.

In terms of can lights, I guess its because my complete lack of experience with them. I've never used them, and no-one in my diving club has either, so I guess its a fear of the unknown! I can see the benefits, but not sure if I like the idea of something strapped to the cylinder with the umbilical coming round to the head. I don't like the idea of the head being permanently strapped to my wrist, maybe that's weird but hey!

Can lights have many benefits, but the trade off is convenience. Its one more piece of gear that needs to be prepped and strapped in properly. A hand held is far more convenient as its just grab and go.

That being said, if you're willing to pay the extra for a can light and deal with the cable, then you get extra burn as the main benefit. You can get large cans that will power a 1000 lumen LED for 10 hours, so that's a whole dive holiday on a single charge.

Goodman handles don't permanently strap the light to your wrist, they can be taken off fairly easily, but a decent Goodman will not get in your way at all, so don't think that it'll restrict your dexterity. They mainly are used for technical diving, where you need your hands free, while you work on something, but they are popular among recreational divers too. I don't like them much, as they need to be small, and I like my primary light to be big, bright and mean.

Hope that helps!

 

[whitenoise]

Thanks Mr Naz, I'll bear that in mind.

Yeah I can see the benefits from can lights, but at the moment I think I'm looking to stick to what I know with a hand-held light. Thanks for the information though.

Anyone have any other suggestions/recommendations based on what I have said in my posts? Did what I reply with answer your questions Packhorse?

 

[MrNaz]

If you're after a good handheld light and don't mind pistol grips, then have a look at the Princeton Tec Miniwave. At about $200 they're pretty cheap, but they're very bright for their size. I have one, and have modified it to replace the Maxbright LEDs with 3 SSC P4 LEDs, but even unmodofied, they are good. Plus I hear they now ship with Rebels instead, so are probably brighter than my modded one.

They are light, easy to carry and use easily available C size batteries. Get good rechargeable ones and you'll get about 2 hours burntime out of it.

 

[whitenoise]

Thanks for the info MrNaz (again!) but I had a pistol grip light before and I hated it! They are just too big and clumsy. Unfortunately (or should that be fortunately!) I actually lost it in a quarry...

 

[H20doctor]

225.00 US .. 65.00 for international shipping 3 XRE leds almost 700 lumens .. Non dimming , non focus, 3 Hour burn .. Canister style .. Pm me if your interested

 

[Packhorse]

Wow! at that price I'd buy one!

How about some pics?

Int shipping is a bit OTT though

 

[gav6280]

225.00 US .. 65.00 for international shipping 3 XRE leds almost 700 lumens .. Non dimming , non focus, 3 Hour burn .. Canister style .. Pm me if your interested

Does this now mean you are in full production of a finished and tested product, please provide the detailed spec, and maybe open a proper sales thread?

 

[bobmirko]

I don't think we can talk about a "sale" at 225$... there not a lot of profit to do here. It will not cover your time to build it...

 

[Linger]

Psst! :naughty: whitenoise - nicely done. :twothumbsThere are some fantastic dive lights open to you.

My $0.02 - think about changing batteries between dives. When you get to longer dives, you'll always have a way of increasing power supply / run time (by adding a canister or using a bigger canister). But for a 1h dive, 6h of run time on max may just be more battery than you need with you.

 

[whitenoise]

Thanks H20doctor, but I'm looking for a handheld light (not a pistol grip) rather than a can light. I'm looking at something like a modified W200, maglight or barbo host kind of shape

Hopefully linger! You make a good point about batteries. Much easier to run a light on full for an hour, then change the batteries for another dive, than make the light more complicated, more expensive and bigger.

Apologies to anyone if I go on a bit or seem a bit vague, but with all the different types of emitters, angles, reflectors/optics, colours, tints etc its difficult for me to say actually what I want, please make me this.

So below are the choices I've been offered at the moment. Budget is about 350 GBP (approx 580 USD/830 NZD/670 AUD/400 Euro), although this is rough and not set in stone.

1) Mr Naz has possibly offered his protype quad R2 monster for hopefully something within my budget.

2) Will (wquiles) has said that he could make me a 3 MC-E (m-bin) using a barbolight host probably in the next couple of months. Reference his light at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232273.

3) He has also recommended that the 3 MC-E may be too floody, so suggested a 1 MC-E light may be more suitable. Reference his light at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=238109

4) Have seen in Packhorses previous posts a mention of 2 R2's and 2 MC-E's in a maglight (or something similar like mentioned above) switchable between the two pairs. Not sure if Packhorse can still do these (have PM'd you).

5) Suggest something else!

If you could choose one for a good all round dive light what would you choose?

 

[Packhorse]

2 R2's and 2 MCe"s in a hand held will not have a very long burn time. And its a ship load of light. I never actually build one but I did build a 3x R2 and 1x MCE light that was great. But still too much for a hand held.

My recommendation buy a W200/R2 aspheric and a W200/P7. Fits into your budget and you get 2 lights! So you will always have a back up and the choice of the best light for the conditions.

 

[wquiles]

2 R2's and 2 MCe"s in a hand held will not have a very long burn time. And its a ship load of light. I never actually build one but I did build a 3x R2 and 1x MCE light that was great. But still too much for a hand held.

My recommendation buy a W200/R2 aspheric and a W200/P7. Fits into your budget and you get 2 lights! So you will always have a back up and the choice of the best light for the conditions.

+1. I completely agree. Given all of his goals and budget, one of your proven W200 modified lights makes the most sense here, specially getting two: one with a narrower beam, and one with a wider beam - that is a great combo

Will

 

[whitenoise]

Thanks Packhorse and Will for your very much appreciated input. :twothumbs: :bow:

The thing that makes me worried about the two lights is that I would effectively be cutting the total light power in half. So instead of having one 'good' light, I will have two 'ok' lights. Now I've probably got this all wrong, but looking at the specs (which I think I understand!) the R2 puts out 114 lumens @ 350ma. Now if a w200 takes a maximum of 2 18650's, and you power it at 1A (I think thats what you said in your sales thread), the LED would output 325 lumens? (1/0.35) * 114) This is probably completely wrong but maths was never my strong point! I currently have the Tektite LS4 (220 lumen output apparently), so this light doesn't seem that much better?

I've rewritten this following paragraph about ten times now (it might still make no sense!) The more I think about this, and the more I read, I think I've been going down the wrong path. (Bear with me on this!) To start with I thought that I wanted a 'wide' angle light to highlight a big area, but when I read around here I saw that while this was ok in high vis, you needed a narrower beam for low vis. Hence the need really for two lights. However now I realise that a 10 degree angle light would actually be suitable for both low vis and high vis conditions, and that 10 degrees is actually a lot wider that I had first thought.

For this reason I think I'm liking MrNaz's light (and the idea of that kind of light) actually more and more. Am I right in thinking that the W200 can only hold one emitter? While having a bigger handheld is not a problem for me, and it might be a little more than my budget, I think it might be better to get the job done properly in one powerful light, than save some money and have two less powerful lights? Would there be any suitable hosts to modify for a 4 emitter setup?

Sorry if I have made this thread completely confusing, but I guess its the development of my understanding of dive lights!

 

[wquiles]

Remember that Packhorse can make you a W200 light with the P7, which is rated at 700-900 produced lumens. True, it would probably have a wider beam than an R2 with an aspheric, but you could still have a single emiter light putting lots of light.

If you are truly looking for narrow beam, and a single R2/aspheric does not give you enough output, then you will need multiple R2/aspherics (like MrNaz's) to achieve a higher lumen output in a beam narrower than the P7.

The only other possible alternative would be to try a new LED light made with the latest high power, single-die Emiter, the SST-50. I have not yet build a light with one of these, but early reports indicate that this single emiter does really well/better than the P7/MC-E (both of which are 4-emiter designs).

Will

 

[Packhorse]

I wouldnt be concerned with lack of output from either W200. They are both very bright.
heaps of pics and feedback on this page

 

[Linger]

Tektite may be manufactures rated output. It's direct drive, off alkaline batteries.
This means that you actually see maybe %80 of the rated number (reflector and lens losses, dirty contacts, resistance from springs, wires, switches) and output declines quickly from the moment the batteries are first turned on.

A constant current driver means the led will driven at the same level for the duration of the time it runs in regulation (as bright when you turn it off as it was 45 minutes earlier when you turned it on.)

I have one of Packhorse's ISTs, a Q5 powered by a single 18650. It's been brightest light of anyone I've been diving with since I got it.