Runtime on Li-Ions - low?

[Brigadier]

I use AW 18500X2 Li-Ion protected cells in my LF SP-9 driving a LF HO-9L D36 LA. According to LF, I should get 60 min run time on those cells.

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart_detail.php?id=11

But I bet I am lucky to get half that. It seems like it shuts down when the battery reaches 3.1-3.2V. Is this normal?

TIA

 

[Hack On Wheels]

You don't really want to discharge below 3V for li-ions, IMR cells can be run down more but I'd still avoid it. That being said, I don't know why your runtime is that low.

 

[fivemega]

I use AW 18500X2 Li-Ion protected cells in my LF SP-9 driving a LF HO-9L D36 LA. According to LF, I should get 60 min run time on those cells.

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart_detail.php?id=11

But I bet I am lucky to get half that. It seems like it shuts down when the battery reaches 3.1-3.2V. Is this normal?

TIA

Your batteries are 1500mAh and lamp assembly takes about 2 Amps so 40 minutes run time should be fine if batteries are healthy.
An hour run time is out of AW's 2200 18650 cells.

 

[LEDite]

Brigadier;

There are 2600 and 2800mah #18650 batteries available by quality manufacturers, like Sanyo and Samsung.

They are unprotected from overdischarge, but they have been thru U.L. testing which is very through.

I use lots of them in my SST-50 & Cree lights with plenty of runtime.

LEDite.

 

[leukos]

Brigadier;

There are 2600 and 2800mah batteries available by quality manufacturers, like Sanyo and Samsung.

In the 18500 size?

 

[nzgunnie]

In the 18500 size?

No, 18650.

 

[LEDite]

Sanyo does make #18500 batteries in 1620mah capacity.

They are more difficult to find.

LEDite

 

[Brigadier]

Your batteries are 1500mAh and lamp assembly takes about 2 Amps so 40 minutes run time should be fine if batteries are healthy.
An hour run time is out of AW's 2200 18650 cells.

Thanks for the info. LF's website specifies 18500's tho.......??????

 

[labrat]

Thanks for the info. LF's website specifies 18500's tho.......??????

LF specifies "Pila® GL4 Rechargeable (2 x 600P)".

An old thread from AW where he sells cells:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2362384

A quote from first post:

Part 10

Size measurements :

P18650-22 - 18.30 x 67.60mm ( +/-0.05 )
P18500 ----- 18.45 x 51.33mm ( +/-0.05 )
P17670 ----- 17.02 x 67.30mm ( +/-0.05 )
P17500 ----- 17.00 x 51.33mm ( +/-0.05 )
P14500 ----- 14.33 x 51.33mm ( +/-0.05 )

Size Reference :

18650 = 168A / 600P
17670 = 168S / 600S
18500 = 150A / 300P
17500 = 150S / 300S
14500 = AA
16340 = CR123

*** The 5 digit number is deciphered like : 18650 = 18mm ( diameter ) X 65mm ( length ) where the last ' 0 ' stands for cylindrical cell

So, Pila 600P are 18650 cells.
Not 18500!

 

[Brigadier]

I was going by this:

HO-9L High Output
9V, 380 Lumens High Output Reflector Module
(For 3 x CR123A Batteries and 2 x 3.7V Rechargeable D36 Flashlights)

So I guess I figured 3XCR123 = 2X18500.

And I believe the reference to the 2X600P is for the Pila GL4 flashlight only.

 

[mdocod]

Sounds like this is a case of mistaken understanding combined with a few other factors. As has been said, 18500 cells are generally rated around 1500mAH, in reality, in test results I have seen, they are more like 1400mAH on a good day under a low load. 1.3AH is even more likely when driven above 1C. As said, the HO-9L lamp operates around 2 amps. That would be a ~40 minute run if the cells are brand new and the test is done as a continuous discharge. Keep in mind that every-time an incan is powered up, there is a spike in power consumption to bring it up to temp. If a given "run" is split into 30 separate on-off cycles, I would not consider it out of the question that a few minutes of runtime would be siphoned off there.

If you need more runtime but really like this type of configuration, you have 2 possible routes to go:

1. Drop down to the SR-9L. I doubt you'll see any difference in overall output when in actual use (not side by side). The perceivable difference will be in the slightly smaller (tighter) hot-spot. This will increase run-time to ~45-50 minutes.

2. Add a 1X cell extender and run a pair of 18650 size cells. Pick up some EagleTac brand 2400mAH to save on cash and runtime will go up over an hour.

*dropping down to the SR-9L and also upgrading to a 2x18650 platform would result in almost 90 minutes runtime

Eric

 

[labrat]

I was going by this:



So I guess I figured 3XCR123 = 2X18500.

And I believe the reference to the 2X600P is for the Pila GL4 flashlight only.

How do you come to the conclusion a Pila 600P cell in one flashlight is different in size from the same cell installed in another flashlight?
Magic?
Please read the thread from AW again.
A short explanation for why 3 x CR123 (Primary cells, 3 Volts, x3 = 9 Volts) is compared with 2 x LiIon cells (rechargeable cells, 3,7 Volts nominal voltage, x 2 = 7.4 Volts nominal) is that primary cells usually drops down in voltage quite instantly at a load like this, while the rechargeable LiIon cells is able to keep the voltage up/deliver more Amps better.
So the operating voltage between these two setups is not that much different in real life, with a load like this.

 

[Brigadier]

How do you come to the conclusion a Pila 600P cell in one flashlight is different in size from the same cell installed in another flashlight?
Magic?

Where did THIS come from?

Never said anything about different battery sizes. I figured in a flashlight that you can run 3XCR123's, you can only FIT 2X18500's because of the LENGTH of the tube.

The reference to the Pila light I took as the drop in was also compatible with that light, which is a 4XCR123 or 2X18650's.

Different form factor. But the STATED runtime from LF is for the 3XCR123 FORM FACTOR. No?

 

[mdocod]

I just looked at the LF specification page for D36 lamps.

The compatibility chart clearly states "GL4/M90 (2x600P)" and the runtime for that lamp is listed as 60 minutes. From one chart to the next it's clear to me that they intended the 60 minute run-time claim to coincide with using a pair of 18650 size cells.

Prior to the Seraph linup, the LumensFactory D36 lamps would only fit in the 2x18650 size Pila and Wolf-Eyes hosts. The charts on the site are still reflecting compatibility with those originally intended applications, which I suppose might have been part of what led to the confusion. The Seraph D36 head adapter came along and made it possible for many possible SF compatible bodies including the Seraph SP series to now work with the D36 line of lamps.

In order to show every possible configuration, one would have to make a big huge multi-page monstrosity of a compatibility chart...

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536

lol.

That was made years ago before the Seraph lineup. Someday I'll take the time to build a modern version. Either way, the important information is still there (lamp and batter combination and how they perform (roughly)). Modern "host" options are better about listing what they are compatible with so that part is less important anyways.

 

[labrat]

Where did THIS come from?

Never said anything about different battery sizes. I figured in a flashlight that you can run 3XCR123's, you can only FIT 2X18500's because of the LENGTH of the tube.

The reference to the Pila light I took as the drop in was also compatible with that light, which is a 4XCR123 or 2X18650's.

Different form factor. But the STATED runtime from LF is for the 3XCR123 FORM FACTOR. No?

You still don't get it?
LF states runtime on certain types of cells:

Runtime (CR123A): ~40 min
Runtime (3.7V Rechargeable): ~60 min

3 x CR123 cells, which are primary Lithium cells, are a specified standard type of cells in size.

They also says runtime on 3.7V Rechargeable, which they have specified here:

"Pila®
GL4 Rechargeable (2 x 600P)"

Pila 600P cells is a type of cells supplied from a vendor, for certain lights.
These are, as described in the post from AW:

"Size Reference :

18650 = 168A / 600P"

in which AW describes which cells he can supply to replace the Pila 600P cells.

Nowhere but in your mind is there a connection between the size of 3 x CR123 cells or 2 x 18650 cells!

Please read the post from AW!
LF does not state anything about what light these drop-ins go into, only the runtime on specified type of cells.
And this does not anywhere state that 3 x CR123 equals 2 x 18650 in size!

 

[Brigadier]

And this does not anywhere state that 3 x CR123 equals 2 x 18650 in size!

Never said it did.

But anyway, nevermind........sorry I asked.

Click here:

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart.php?cat_id=3&sub_cat_id=4

then click here:

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart_detail.php?id=11

and will see how it is confusing.

HO-9L High Output
9V, 380 Lumens High Output Reflector Module
(For 3 x CR123A Batteries and 2 x 3.7V Rechargeable D36 Flashlights)


Runtime (CR123A): ~40 min
Runtime (3.7V Rechargeable): ~60 min

 

[labrat]

Sorry!
You are right, it is confusing when LF puts contradictory references up in their specs!
The Wolf-Eyes® 9M/M90 Rechargeable I can also read to be the Wolf-Eyes 9M Cobra model, which does use :

"2 x LRB-150A Li-ion Rechargeable battery "

or

"3 x CR-123A"

depending of the model!

http://www.flashlightcool.com/Prefocused-xenon-flashlights/Wolf-Eyes/9M-Series-Cobra.html

And from AW's post:

18650 = 168A / 600P
17670 = 168S / 600S
18500 = 150A / 300P
17500 = 150S / 300S
14500 = AA
16340 = CR123

this is 18500 cells!

So I got stuck on the Pila reference, not looking deep enough into the second reference.
Sorry again!
But now you do have an explanation for your shorter than expected runtime with your cells?
Maybe time for some upgrade?
This extension:

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart_detail.php?id=116

and new 18650 cells would give you the longer runtimes!

 

[Brigadier]

Sorry!
You are right, it is confusing when LF puts contradictory references up in their specs!
The Wolf-Eyes® 9M/M90 Rechargeable I can also read to be the Wolf-Eyes 9M Cobra model, which does use :

"2 x LRB-150A Li-ion Rechargeable battery "

or

"3 x CR-123A"

depending of the model!

http://www.flashlightcool.com/Prefocused-xenon-flashlights/Wolf-Eyes/9M-Series-Cobra.html

And from AW's post:

18650 = 168A / 600P
17670 = 168S / 600S
18500 = 150A / 300P
17500 = 150S / 300S
14500 = AA
16340 = CR123

this is 18500 cells!

So I got stuck on the Pila reference, not looking deep enough into the second reference.
Sorry again!
But now you do have an explanation for your shorter than expected runtime with your cells?
Maybe time for some upgrade?
This extension:

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart_detail.php?id=116

and new 18650 cells would give you the longer runtimes!

Thanks for clearing up the confusing specs.

Since I only use the light around the house outdoors, I don't think I am going to add the extension as I really don't NEED the extra runtime, I was just kinda surprised at how much less I had than their 'specs' indicated.

Also, with keeping the light in the 3XCR123/2X18500 configuration, I can use these batteries interchangeably with this LA. Not so if I add the extension. Correct?

 

[labrat]

I believe the extension is just a screw on/screw off device, so you can use it with the 18650 cells, and take it off when using 18500 or 3xCR123.
There is an added cost in upgrading, both the extender and the 18650 cells.
But all here agrees that you "need" to upgrade when it can be done!

 

[mdocod]

If you run the extension, it would have to be removed before running on CR123s, 4xCR123s will blow the lamp.