Serious Noob Question! (solid proven 3D Mag build)

[Cpt. Thomas]

Hi fellas!

At the risk of getting bounced on my first post...... I have been lurking for a few weeks and have come to the conclusion that their is just too much information on 2 & 3D mag conversions to ingest. Some old, some new etc. I'm going "light blind" tryiyng to figure some of this stuff out.

So, as I understand that many / much of these mods are driven by personal tast etc. I was hoping that as a noob with limited experience in torches and lights, that some of you could recommend a good solid & proven 3D Mag mod for me? What type you ask :thinking:?

Bleeding edge tech aside, 500+ lumen would be nice. Since the Mag is focusing, I think that takes care of the flood / spot / throw issue ( God I hope?), variable settings would be a plus but not mandatory as long as there is at least 60 min's run time. Battery choice is open, I am pretty tech worthy with access to most tools required. R.O.P. other..... Help!

Thanks!

Capt. Thomas

 

[Fulgeo]

For a good LED mod I would suggest the following:

SSC P7 D***I or C***I binned
3 x Accupower D NiMH batterys
8 x AMC7135 driver ( 2 stacked 4 x AMC7135 drivers )
Heatsink of your choice. Many good ones to choose from on the forums

I would cut down the stock reflector and use a 250mm FL PCX lens. Use atleast 24 gauge wire and make sure to do resistant mods especial the tail spring. This will give you a bonified 600-700 lumen OTF light that will run 3 - 3.5 hours a charge. I have over a 100 hours on one of these builds and it is still going strong. I suspect the flashlight will outlive me.

For a good incandescent mod I would suggest the following:

Welch Allyn 1185
JM-PhD-D1 PWM Hotwire Regulator
KIU socket for a D cell Mag body
3 x BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 cells
Aluminum MOP reflector
Boro float lens

Do resistant mods. This will give you 1000+ lumens that will run 65 - 70 minutes. You could also pick up some turn key solutions for regulation like Alan B's Programmable Hotwire Regulated Driver drop-in. You could also forgo regulation and Direct Drive it, but insta-flash could/will be an issue. As a side suggestion I hardily recommend the FM1909 lamp. You would only get about 40+ minutes but you could safely DD it with little worry of insta-flash. The FM1909 will rock your world. To my eyes it about doubles the light output of the WA1185, which is no slough in its own right.

Incandescent builds are very nice and give a very pleasing to the eye and project a very usable warm light beam. The lamps do have a life span of about 10-20 hours the way we CPFers over drive them.

LED builds are also nice but the light output is slightly less "tastie" to my eyes. This is personal preference. I would suggest building both these builds and they will give you a feel of what each court is about. One nice thing about LED builds is the life span of the emitters tend to be measured in the 10,000s of hours.

Happy Mods!

 

[Databyter]

If your looking for an easier variation to the above incandescent M*G85 (1185 bulb) you can get an AW (AW is a CPF handle) soft start switch with the KUI bi pin socket (to hold bulb) already installed instead of a regulated driver that you have to adjust. It would save you some soldering and adjusting.
These (AW switches) are real low resistance and "soft start" your light so that the initial voltage won't pop them when you overdrive them (as we do here =)).
You get 3 levels of your incandescent light low med and high, as well as a strobe.
Using your stock switch will also work with one of Five Mega's bi-pin adapters (FiveMega is also a CPF member), or a KUI socket Kit, but it will be dimmer unless you do all the resistance mods to the switch.
You can also drive it with 9 NiMh AA's in a Five Mega Battery holder that will fit in your 3D light, it is slightly dimmer than the 3 lithium cells, but you don't have to worry about over discharging NiMh's, so in reality you might actually get more runtime and less stress.

There are alot of options, the one mentioned in the above post is great, but requires some soldering skills and the cost of the parts and shipping is going to be in a different ballpark.

It would help us help give you ideas if you told us what kind of budget you would be prepared to spend on this. Then we can really narrow it down. 60 Minutes of runtime really narrows it down too, For instance my Mag 85 won't do that on full power with the power supply I have in it now (9AA's) But with the AW switch I can use it intermitantly all night, because I mostly use it on the medium power.

 

[Linger]

minor nit - getting many AA's + the battery holder is more expensive than 3 C or D batteries.

Cpt. Thomas,

*Forget all marketing claims you've read. m@glights aren't really focusing.
a big choice you'll have to make is if you're willing to expand into non-standard batteries. For energy density, Lithium rechargables are great. You could also get some strong use out of certian Nihm cells.
I'd suggest lithium, you'll have to commit to learning safe handling (www.batteryuniversity ) but the rewards are very worth it.

A big choice is LED vs Incan. IMHO the best of us choose both:

3D m@g with 4xC Nihm powering triple Cree R5 xpg (exceeds 500lumen/hour)

3D m@g with 4xC IMR (or 3 Batteryspace 26650 IMR) using Jimmy M's regulator to power a WA 1111 (exceeds 500lumen/hour)
-----------
Simplest for you would be to get an britelumen's heatsink, an ssr-50, a shiningbeam 3mode 8x7135 driver, and 4C Nihm cells (all fits in a '3D' M@g). This will give you low-med-high (roughly 700lumens) and runtime from ~20h low to ~2h high.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

minor nit - getting many AA's + the battery holder is more expensive than 3 C or D batteries.

Cpt. Thomas,

*Forget all marketing claims you've read. m@glights aren't really focusing.
a big choice you'll have to make is if you're willing to expand into non-standard batteries. For energy density, Lithium rechargables are great. You could also get some strong use out of certian Nihm cells.
I'd suggest lithium, you'll have to commit to learning safe handling (www.batteryuniversity ) but the rewards are very worth it.

A big choice is LED vs Incan. IMHO the best of us choose both:

3D m@g with 4xC Nihm powering triple Cree R5 xpg (exceeds 500lumen/hour)

3D m@g with 4xC IMR (or 3 Batteryspace 26650 IMR) using Jimmy M's regulator to power a WA 1111 (exceeds 500lumen/hour)
-----------
Simplest for you would be to get an britelumen's heatsink, an ssr-50, a shiningbeam 3mode 8x7135 driver, and 4C Nihm cells (all fits in a '3D' M@g). This will give you low-med-high (roughly 700lumens) and runtime from ~20h low to ~2h high.

Hi Linger,

Thanks for the info but I'm not following you on "maglights aren't really focusing" part? How is that? As for the AAA or AA battery holder, cost is not the issue as I will explain below.

Kind of weird but I posted two responses yesterday and they aren't showing up? Are noobie posts delayed for approval? Anyway I had mentioned that I really DON'T want to go with non standard batteries unless I have the option to use standard AA / AAA / C / D in a field emergency. That was one big reason I want to mod a light and use the 3D Mag as a host. Some times we have to scavange for days to weeks and Batteries R US is no where to be found. A mod that would allow the use of interchangable standard batteries would be priority over extra long run time. If the other replies ever show up, I commented that old tech was better than no tech (i.e. no light at all).

Are either of your two recommendations able to have a Hi/Low switch? That would help in the event of using standard cells.

Thanks & help me learn more because your C cell idea sounds good !

Capt. Thomas

 

[420light]

Linger has a very good point. Those adapters are pretty darn expensive. Also the Maglite focusing feature is a stretch (most marketing is ).

As of my writing this the Shining Beam board seems to be no longer in stock.

BTW what is the difference between a SSR-50 and a SST-50. Is it the mounting? I looked at the PDF and could not really tell.

 

[Fulgeo]

Linger has a very good point. Those adapters are pretty darn expensive. Also the Maglite focusing feature is a stretch (most marketing is ).

As of my writing this the Shining Beam board seems to be no longer in stock.

BTW what is the difference between a SSR-50 and a SST-50. Is it the mounting? I looked at the PDF and could not really tell.

The SSR-50 is already mounted on a board, typically soldered. The SST-50 is just the bare emitter.

 

[Linger]

I'd be able to resale a shiningbeam board to the OP if it came to that.

*My 2mo old AW IMR 'C' cells are really impressing me. With higher capacity then any of my AA nihm's, they IMR's hold their voltage very well and its taken me some adjusting to realise I wasn't seeing the expected dimming during extended runs.

Best,
Linger

 

[420light]

The SSR-50 is already mounted on a board, typically soldered. The SST-50 is just the bare emitter.

Cool. Thought so, but thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Tractorshaft]

Capt. ;

I too am an "Unlightened" noob that has built the 2C M@G CR123/HeaterHose/KPR112, a M@G85, ROP Hi/Lo and have ordered a P7 and C-sized heatsink from BriteLumens to build a DD 1C 18650 in a cut-down M@G host.

Here are my thoughts, the M@G85 seem overhyped and I am not impressed with the cost vs. output. I dont like the large size and weight of the 9AA to 3D adapter loaded up with the 9 NIMH's needed to run it.

FWIW the best throwing and most user friendly mod is by far the 3 CR123, 2C form factor with the KPR112 bulb, what a great little light! I havent finished the C-Sized, DD, P7 but cant imagine it being much better than the little thrower that the little heater hosed 2C M@G is! This one is cheap, easyily done using local parts feels great in your hand and puts out tons of pure white light. Its a perfectly sized light in my opinion. Try it , you may like it!

I learned enough recently that I am only interested in it if it can be done on the "C" sized platform. YMMV.

Have fun!

Jerry

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

For a good LED mod I would suggest the following:

SSC P7 D***I or C***I binned
3 x Accupower D NiMH batterys
8 x AMC7135 driver ( 2 stacked 4 x AMC7135 drivers )
Heatsink of your choice. Many good ones to choose from on the forums

I would cut down the stock reflector and use a 250mm FL PCX lens. Use atleast 24 gauge wire and make sure to do resistant mods especial the tail spring. This will give you a bonified 600-700 lumen OTF light that will run 3 - 3.5 hours a charge. I have over a 100 hours on one of these builds and it is still going strong. I suspect the flashlight will outlive me.

For a good incandescent mod I would suggest the following:

Welch Allyn 1185
JM-PhD-D1 PWM Hotwire Regulator
KIU socket for a D cell Mag body
3 x BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 cells
Aluminum MOP reflector
Boro float lens

Do resistant mods. This will give you 1000+ lumens that will run 65 - 70 minutes. You could also pick up some turn key solutions for regulation like Alan B's Programmable Hotwire Regulated Driver drop-in. You could also forgo regulation and Direct Drive it, but insta-flash could/will be an issue. As a side suggestion I hardily recommend the FM1909 lamp. You would only get about 40+ minutes but you could safely DD it with little worry of insta-flash. The FM1909 will rock your world. To my eyes it about doubles the light output of the WA1185, which is no slough in its own right.

Incandescent builds are very nice and give a very pleasing to the eye and project a very usable warm light beam. The lamps do have a life span of about 10-20 hours the way we CPFers over drive them.

LED builds are also nice but the light output is slightly less "tastie" to my eyes. This is personal preference. I would suggest building both these builds and they will give you a feel of what each court is about. One nice thing about LED builds is the life span of the emitters tend to be measured in the 10,000s of hours.

Happy Mods!

Fulgeo,

The LED mod sounds real good due to the standard D cell batteries! Standard cells are important to me since they are easy to find in nthe field. Is that 600-700 Lumen for the full 3 hrs (at least 2hrs?) on a stock on/off Mag switch? Is there and option for Hi / Low / Momentary / Strobe?
Would you mind helping me along with this if I decide to do it?

On the Incan mod same thing, is there a multi level sw available for that and what would the FM1909 bulb lumen wise on hi? What would the runtime be on low / med.?

Please get back to me on this!

Thanks,

CPT. Thomas

 

[Justin Case]

For a good incandescent mod I would suggest the following:

Welch Allyn 1185
JM-PhD-D1 PWM Hotwire Regulator
KIU socket for a D cell Mag body
3 x BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 cells
Aluminum MOP reflector
Boro float lens

Do resistant mods. This will give you 1000+ lumens that will run 65 - 70 minutes. You could also pick up some turn key solutions for regulation like Alan B's Programmable Hotwire Regulated Driver drop-in. You could also forgo regulation and Direct Drive it, but insta-flash could/will be an issue. As a side suggestion I hardily recommend the FM1909 lamp. You would only get about 40+ minutes but you could safely DD it with little worry of insta-flash. The FM1909 will rock your world. To my eyes it about doubles the light output of the WA1185, which is no slough in its own right.

Incandescent builds are very nice and give a very pleasing to the eye and project a very usable warm light beam. The lamps do have a life span of about 10-20 hours the way we CPFers over drive them.

The JimmyM regulator is a great, but perhaps beyond the skill/knowledge of a "noob". Also, I don't think you'll get 65-70 min under regulation for a WA1185 bulb, unless you set Vbulb to a low value like 10.2V. If you do that, then you won't get 1000+ bulb lumens. If you set Vbulb to something reasonable like 11.1V, then you'll probably get about 30 min runtime in regulation with 3xIMR26650.

Based on the data from Lux Luthor's spreadsheets, you aren't going to get even 10 hours of bulb life if you run at 11V or higher.

The FM1909 will provide greater output than the Welch-Allyn 1185, but the 1909 bulb will also run much hotter and draw a lot more current. That is going to limit your capability for any sort of useful continuous running, as well as overall run time.

The assembled Alan B drop-in PHD-MD is also a great product, but the mod is going to be a little pricey once you assemble all of the required pieces. Building a Mag85 mod using the JimmyM regulator board will be expensive enough already. Figure $20 for the Mag, $40 for the Batteryspace IMR cells, $7 for the boro window, $15 for a KD aluminum MOP reflector, $47 for a JimmyM regulator, $15 for a Kiu socket kit, and about $13 for two 1185 bulbs. Total is about $160. If you don't have a charger for Li-ions, that's more money.

IMO, the simplest and cheapest approach is to go with an XP-G LED Mag mod and use a single mode 3xAMC7135 or multimode (if that's what one wants) 3xAMC7135 driver. This setup will allow you to run with 3xD alkalines in regulation probably for at least an hour (with slowly decreasing output afterward for many more hours), if you need to use that battery chemistry in a pinch. With the more desirable Accupower D NiMH cells, having a capacity of about 10Ah, you'll get about 10 hours run time with no heat issues. Driving an XP-G R5 at 1050mA nominal translates to about 350 emitter lumens. This can't compare to the 1000+ lumens of super bulb incandescent mods, but they can't touch the XP-G's run time and minimal heating either.

 

[Justin Case]

Fulgeo,

The LED mod sounds real good due to the standard D cell batteries! Standard cells are important to me since they are easy to find in nthe field. Is that 600-700 Lumen for the full 3 hrs (at least 2hrs?) on a stock on/off Mag switch? Is there and option for Hi / Low / Momentary / Strobe?

Fulgeo's P7 Mag mod suggestion will not work well with "standard D cell batteries", if by that you mean alkalines. Alkalines, even big D cells, just won't hold up under the 2.8A current draw that Fulgeo's mod suggestion will require. Thus, the light will fall out of regulation within a few minutes and output will fall quite quickly because the alkalines suffer severe voltage sag under heavy loads.

If you want/need to have the ability to use alkalines, IMO it is best to underdrive the LED somewhat. You balance enough drive current to the LED to get useful output, but keep the current draw from the batteries low enough that alkalines can handle the load.

If you are willing to use D NiMH cells, then running a P7 at full power (2.8A) becomes feasible. D NiMH cells can handle a 2.8A current load with minimal voltage sag and you should be able to get your 2-3 hr run time.

Search CPF for "StefanFS P7 maglite guide".

 

[alpg88]

wow, so overcomplicated.
i have 3d p7 mag.
all you need is 3 d nimh or nicd cells, they add up to 3.6v freshly charged 4v or so.
i don't even have any drivers, mine is dd, fresh of charger i measured 3,2 amp, but let them sit for a day, and max what i read 2,7 amps.
i get about 3 hours out of 3x 10000 mah d cells. before it gets noticeably dim.

 

[irv_usc]

I agree with alpg88.

I have made a few 3D mags with SSC p7s in direct drive. No problems and runtime to dim is pretty good.

this is good if you want 'bright' as the only setting. if you want to have levels then you would need a driver.

 

[Justin Case]

wow, so overcomplicated.
i have 3d p7 mag.
all you need is 3 d nimh or nicd cells, they add up to 3.6v freshly charged 4v or so.
i don't even have any drivers, mine is dd, fresh of charger i measured 3,2 amp, but let them sit for a day, and max what i read 2,7 amps.
i get about 3 hours out of 3x 10000 mah d cells. before it gets noticeably dim.

Direct drive simplicity is certainly great. I have a DD P7 Mag mod myself. But the OP stated above that "Standard cells are important to me since they are easy to find in nthe field." Alkalines, if that is what the OP means by "standard cells", aren't going to work that well for direct drive IMO.

DD also limits your selection of LEDs to relatively high Vf emitters, to best match the voltage of the power source. A P7 is an excellent LED, but it is not as good of a thrower vs something like an XP-G. But the XP-G's Vf is very low. If you drive it at around 3.7V, the LED will be severely overdriven and very unhappy.

 

[alpg88]

Direct drive simplicity is certainly great. I have a DD P7 Mag mod myself. But the OP stated above that "Standard cells are important to me since they are easy to find in nthe field." Alkalines, if that is what the OP means by "standard cells", aren't going to work that well for direct drive IMO.

DD also limits your selection of LEDs to relatively high Vf emitters, to best match the voltage of the power source. A P7 is an excellent LED, but it is not as good of a thrower vs something like an XP-G. But the XP-G's Vf is very low. If you drive it at around 3.7V, the LED will be severely overdriven and very unhappy.

of course, everything has 2 sides.

 

[alpg88]

i reread op posts, and ;
there is no way you can get 600-700lm out of any alkaline combo that fits in 3d mag. that many lumens is p7-sst50 territory, you'll need 2,5amp for that, at least.
with 3d cells you can reliably get 1 amp or so. that is 250-300lm or so.
IMHO.

 

[Fulgeo]

Hey guyz,

The OP said in post #1 that "Battery choice is open, I am pretty tech worthy with access to most tools required." I believe that he/she should just jump in the water is fine. As Justin Case pointed out if you want to use primary batteries like alkaline D perhaps the SSC P7 is not the mod. Please note thou that the SSC P7 will still produces 400 lumens at 1.4 amps. You would be lucky to get much more than 30 minutes of usable light from a 8xAMC7135 driven 3D SSC P7 using alkalines. I have not tested run times using alkalines in a 3D SSC P7. I have put 3 Duracell Ds in one of my P7 mods and it does work and it does produce usable light. I would say about 400 lumens. I would think that it would lose output with alkalines rather quick.

As for the WA1185 I have gotten over 65 minutes DD using 3 x BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 cells. I did not turn it on and let it melt when I tested it. I did 10 minute runs measuring cell voltages between runs and keep my eye on the general heat of the flashlight. I have also gotten 30 minute runs on the WA1185 using 9 x AA Eneloops.

If you are worried about the cost of building an incandescent you could forgo the PWM regulators and go DD with the FM1909. Use the BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 cells. It is very noticeable when voltage of your battery pack falls below 10.0 volts with the FM1909. This is a good place to stop and recharge. You will have to contend with heat and shorter run time but this light rocks.

Based on the original post I think a good 8 x AMC7135 SSC P7 driven at 2.8 amps using 3 x Accupower D NiMH batterys fits the requirements the best. Nothing against the Cree XP-G. Its a powerful little devil and I am trying to wait until the R2s come out before I purchase some. The XP-G R5 currently available fall just short of his lumen requirement/desire of 500+ lumens. Oh and besides if he built a Cree XP-G then how could he not purchase a 33-37 mm FL aspherical lens.

In ending I would like to say I am not a big fan of primary cells. Make mine rechargeable for those guilt free lumens. Happy Mods.

 

[420light]

Feast your eyes on this: Crappy Cell Phone Pics.

But they get the point across.


4 D MAG
Shining Beam 3 mode driver 2.8 amp version
1 P7
4 Duracells.

Running 4 D batteries. Reading after it stabilized from 2.8 amps. Alks fall right before your eyes.:green:

Running 3 D Batteries.