SST-90 mod into Surefire P6 - CR123 vs 18650 questions

[Chevy-SS]

So I bought one of Nailbender's SST-90 drop-ins for my SF P6 host. The SF is using two CR123 primary batteries and the SST-90 (single mode, direct drive) is putting out a good amount of light - I would guesstimate ~500 lumens OTF.

I measured current draw and I am getting ~3.2 amps with the CR123 primaries.

If I bore out the body (I have a small lathe) and utilize an 18650 battery, would I increase the lumens? I know I would have less voltage with the 18650, but there would be an increased current flow available with the 18650, correct?

I would be grateful if someone could help me figure this out. There are flashlights on the market that have well in excess of 1,000 lumens using the SST-90 emitter, so I am curious if I can really crank this thing up. But I don't know the math and/or other relevant guidelines.

thanks for any help

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[Sgt. LED]

Nailbender himself would tell you best because he knows the circuit he uses but I'd imagine the 18650 would not make it any brighter. Might even be a bit dimmer but the runtime should go up.

Hopefully the man himself stops by, or someone who already has one of these, and lets you know for sure.

 

[flashfiend]

Runtime would increase but I don't think it gets any brighter. In the P60 format, the sst-series LED's are limited severely by the lack of heatsinking. You'll generate the power (Watts) but instead of lumens (light) you get heat. If you're getting 3.2amps with the primaries you may actually be hitting the sweet spot for the sst's in a P60. I've used an AW Protected 18650 w/ an nb DD sst-50 and drew about 3.5-5amps from it as well as an AW IMR18650 and drew 6+ amps from it. The brightness was not really any better than with an AW Protected 17670 drawing 3.2amps like your primaries. The IMR would in fact blue the LED within a minute of use (same with BS IMR26650).

 

[Noctis]

With an 18650 battery alone your current won't go up one bit.

It's the springs in the module and the tailcap that limits your current the most, assuming you asked him to straight wire yours(single-mode, no strobe).

I'd recommend you read my thread as I pretty much did the same thing:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=272300&page=2

The original current with an IMR 18650 was 3.2 amps. After I stripped two 20 gauge wires, twisted the strands together and soldered them to the inner spring in the module(which gave the electricity a shorter and thicker path) the current started out at 4 amps and quickly rose to 5 amps as the emitter heated up rapidly.

However, you should know that the test leads in your standard multimeter might not accurately measure the current because of the resistance in the leads themselves.

That's mostly how I fried my McClicky switch, and I don't imagine you have one in your 6P. In which case, trying to go for more current will almost definitely fry your factory switch, unless it's a twisty and you only use the twisty to turn on your light and not the momentary button.

In any case, I wouldn't suggest attempting to go for more current unless you're fully committed to doing the mods for it(better clicky, wire-spring mods, replacement switches, replacement modules, Arctic Silver 5, copper tape).

Runtime would increase but I don't think it gets any brighter. In the P60 format, the sst-series LED's are limited severely by the lack of heatsinking. You'll generate the power (Watts) but instead of lumens (light) you get heat. If you're getting 3.2amps with the primaries you may actually be hitting the sweet spot for the sst's in a P60. I've used an AW Protected 18650 w/ an nb DD sst-50 and drew about 3.5-5amps from it as well as an AW IMR18650 and drew 6+ amps from it. The brightness was not really any better than with an AW Protected 17670 drawing 3.2amps like your primaries. The IMR would in fact blue the LED within a minute of use (same with BS IMR26650).

This is probably a stupid question, but did you use arctic silver/copper tape on the module?

I find it really helps best if you make somewhat of a "sandwich" out of it and put it between every metal-to-metal contact. My most effective use of it would be a generous portion on the threads between the pill and the reflector, wrap copper tape around it, then put another layer on the copper tape. Dave said that using too much AS5 would be counterproductive, but I found that if I don't put AS5 on the copper tape as well, the heat transfer will drop down to nothing.

I've read that even if a metal sucks in heat easily, that doesn't necessarily mean it also lets go of the heat easily, and that's where the AS5 comes in.

Anyways, I'm hoping my finned P60 Bezel is up to the task of managing the heat.

 

[Chevy-SS]

Thanks for the replies. Not really what I wanted to hear though, lol.


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[Noctis]

Thanks for the replies. Not really what I wanted to hear though, lol.


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Better than frying your module and spending another $85 to replace it:devil:.

If you're willing to dish out the money, you can wait in line for VanIsleDSM's Quad XP-G drop-in module for P60 size heads. That should easily get you 1000+ OTF lumens without as much of a heat issue compared to the SST-90s, all you need is to upgrade the switch and that's fairly easy to do.

 

[Chevy-SS]

Better than frying your module and spending another $85 to replace it:devil:.

If you're willing to dish out the money, you can wait in line for VanIsleDSM's Quad XP-G drop-in module for P60 size heads. That should easily get you 1000+ OTF lumens without as much of a heat issue compared to the SST-90s, all you need is to upgrade the switch and that's fairly easy to do.

Hahahah, yeah man. Better than frying anything, for sure.

RE: VanIsleDSM's Quad XP-G drop-in module - I'm on the short list already! I can't wait to get one of these. I gotta believe his drop-in will be a HUGE seller, if it works as advertised. I'm just glad I got in early on his thread.

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[Simon520]

While I don't have the SST module, I have some of NB's Linger Specials.

These are 3 mode regulated. I can tell you that they develop significantly more lumens with 2 primaries rather than 1 large li-ion. I use a 26500 in a FiveMega 1 cell host.

I have measured the current draws and voltages with the 2 primaries vs. single Li-ion and the wattage used goes up over 25% with the 2 primaries, which makes sense since they are brighter.

Don't know if this applies to you in your situation, but I think your question is "Am I current limited with 2 primaries in my NailBender SST drop in, and would a single li-ion with more capacity give me more lumens?"

The answer appears to be no; I am assuming you have a REGULATED SST90 drop in since you can use 2 primaries or a single Li-Ion. Direct drive drop ins would probably show an improvement in lumens with the bigger capacity li-ion.

 

[Chevy-SS]

....

The answer appears to be no; I am assuming you have a REGULATED SST90 drop in since you can use 2 primaries or a single Li-Ion. Direct drive drop ins would probably show an improvement in lumens with the bigger capacity li-ion.

Thanks

It says "direct drive" on the packaging.................


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[flashfiend]

When it was in a P60 reflector (now in DBS host) I've used AS5 on the threads and had a tight fit with copper tape around the reflector. Nothing changed, it only made the host hotter but the bluing still existed. Btw, it shortened the spring on the McClicky I was using but the switch still continued to function.

Now in the DBS host (although ymmv), I don't experience bluing and the tailswitch looks fine even when using an AW IMR18650.

Btw, did you know the AW IMR18650 (16 amps continuous) has less resistance than compared to the BS IMR 26650 (10 amps continuous)?

 

[Noctis]

When it was in a P60 reflector (now in DBS host) I've used AS5 on the threads and had a tight fit with copper tape around the reflector. Nothing changed, it only made the host hotter but the bluing still existed. Btw, it shortened the spring on the McClicky I was using but the switch still continued to function.

Now in the DBS host (although ymmv), I don't experience bluing and the tailswitch looks fine even when using an AW IMR18650.

Btw, did you know the AW IMR18650 (16 amps continuous) has less resistance than compared to the BS IMR 26650 (10 amps continuous)?

Did you also wrap some tape around the pill and use some AS5 on the tape itself?

I can't say I really experienced any of that bluing before.

But then, I could be color blind.

If the 26650 has more resistance, then maybe that could be a good thing, as you could run it in the sweet spot of 5-7 amps, as I've been told that an IMR 18650 will pull 10 amps with no sweat, which is more excitement than the switch can handle.

 

[psychbeat]

While I don't have the SST module, I have some of NB's Linger Specials.

These are 3 mode regulated. I can tell you that they develop significantly more lumens with 2 primaries rather than 1 large li-ion. I use a 26500 in a FiveMega 1 cell host.

I have measured the current draws and voltages with the 2 primaries vs. single Li-ion and the wattage used goes up over 25% with the 2 primaries, which makes sense since they are brighter.

Don't know if this applies to you in your situation, but I think your question is "Am I current limited with 2 primaries in my NailBender SST drop in, and would a single li-ion with more capacity give me more lumens?"

The answer appears to be no; I am assuming you have a REGULATED SST90 drop in since you can use 2 primaries or a single Li-Ion. Direct drive drop ins would probably show an improvement in lumens with the bigger capacity li-ion.

thanks- Ill have to try that with my 2.8A single mode reg Linger and
2.5reg SST50 I usually run aw2600 18650

maybe the drivers like a bit more voltage to buck..

i h8 primarys tho..

BTW with AS-5 and aluminum strips my L2P and C2 both get
warm all of the way to the tail almost- especially with the 2.8A Linger.
gotta be doin something right!