Stanley HID Technical discussions...

[kramer5150]

Curious, how long does your battery level indicator remain green?

I charge mine with the AC wall wart until the LED light stops red/flashing and turns solid green. However the LED never lights up green during use... it starts out orange from the get-go every time I pull the trigger.

Is this normal? I would expect the LED to light green when I turn it on with a fresh charge.

:thinking:

**EDIT**
I edited this thread to open it up for any technical discussions. The first two threads are HUGE and. The technical discussions are lost in the mix of sale questions, retail B&M, Amazon part numbering, product pricing...etc...

Most of the original thread picture links are dead too. So feel free to post up any pics you may have, beamshots, google earth screencaps, Mods and DIY... anything technical in nature is good to go. I would also like to see if anyone from the first two threads has successfully modded the 3Ah cell to something bigger/better.

Thanks!!!

 

[Larbo]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level indicator?

Mine acts the same way, I charge it till its green and as soon as I pull the trigger its orange. I never had a green led during operation.

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level indicator?

Further experimentation....

I used the cigarette lighter plug cord and connected the light to a fully charged 14.7V outboard 12V/6Ah SLA cell, and the LED turned green during operation as per the manual says it should.

So I think the charge indicator works, its just really sensitive. Either that or the internal SLA cell in mine is sagging tremendously under load or has a very limited capacity.

As a last ditch effort I plugged the cigarette lighter cord into the light and alligator clipped my hobby charger to the plug terminals. Let it fully charge to the 14.7 level, and the result is the same... no green. Measuring the voltage across the cigarette lighter plug I only get 13.04V, even minutes after a full 14.7V charge on my hobby charger.

Do any of you observe the same behavior from your light?
Should I be concerned about this? The light works fine, as far as I can tell. I haven't done a run time test on it yet and I have not fully depleted the cell yet either, I have been just topping it off since I got it.

thanks.

**EDIT**
After a bit of digging it seems there are scattered reports from others' lights doing the same thing. I plugged the cig lighter cord into my car tonight and it worked fine with the green LED shining bright, just as it did at home with the outboard SLA cell. So I think its just a matter of the charge indicator circuit not being very accurate, or being calibrated for vehicle electrical systems which top out much higher than the internal SLA cell.

 

[jtrucktools34]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level indicator?

I have had mine for about 3 months and also have never seen a green LED while using the light. I checked the runtime against other reports here and it was close so I just disregarded the indicator.

 

[BVH]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level indicator?

Remember, the SLA is only 3 AH so it's going to sag even under initial load after a full charge. Especially since the light employs the power-sucking boost starting circuit. As long as you're getting about 26 - 28 minutes run time on high and 30 - 32 on low, then all is normal.

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level indicator?

Remember, the SLA is only 3 AH so it's going to sag even under initial load after a full charge. Especially since the light employs the power-sucking boost starting circuit. As long as you're getting about 26 - 28 minutes run time on high and 30 - 32 on low, then all is normal.

Something doesn't add up:thinking: My apologies in advance, its the Grant Imahara (GEEK) in me. Plus I am new to HID.

Its a 35Watt HID. Assuming the ballast is ~75% efficient (ballpark) that would mean it draws 46.6 Watts from the cell to generate those 35 bulb watts.

I=W/V, and assuming the cell voltage sags to ~13.5V
I=46.6/13.5 = 3.45 Amps draw from the cell.

With a 3ah cell capacity
3A/3.45A = .86
.86 x 60 minutes = 52 Minute run times

So why are the actual run times so low?
Is the internal cell sagging way down to sub 11Volts under load? (even at 11V, it should yield 42 minute run times)
Is the ballast way less efficient than I think (.75)?

 

[BVH]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

Kramer, this is from a post I made way back when the Stanley first came out.

"For this test, I hooked up the light to a 28 AH SLA from one of those emergency car starting units using the supplied car charger/operating cord. I wanted controlled values so I essentially took the lights battery out of the equation although electrically it is in the circuit.

On High power: This light is a TRUE 35 Watt light as advertised!

Output to the bulb

Initial starting Amps………………………………. 2.4
Turbo Boost start drop out Amps..……….. .9 (7 seconds to drop out)

Steady running after 3 minutes…………… .42 Amps @ 88.1 Volts AC = 37.00 Watts
While running steady after 3 minutes, I noticed a .05 Amp cycle up and down as Mr. TB has indicated in his description of how the ballast cycles.

Input power to the ballast 3.5 Amps @ 12.6 Volts DC = 44.1 Watts

Ballast is 84% efficient – not bad as compared to a lot of ballasts out there running at 75 to 80% efficiency.

Low Power

Steady running after 3 minutes…………… .37 Amps @ 88.1 Volts AC = 32.60 Watts

Time to cycle from High mode to Low mode after moving the switch – 52 seconds – based on Amp draw
Time to cycle from Low mode to High mode after moving the switch – 15 seconds – based on Amp draw

Of note – When I measured input power, I measured the Amps being contributed by the alternate power source as a separate test. In this test, the lights battery was contributing 2.5 Amps while the alternate source was contributing 1 Amp. The power source Amps rose over the 3 minutes I watched it. As the battery is depleted, the alternate source will provide the needed difference.

The SLA battery weighs 2 lbs, 1 oz. Almost half the weight of the light."


I'm sure Peukert's factor really affects these numbers when the light is running off of its own 3 AH battery and that's a big factor in the reduced run time.

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

Yikes... a lot of my assumptions were very close to your actual measurements.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I have never heard of peukerts law, learned something new today:twothumbs
Peukert's Law

For those who dont know Garant Imahara (my geek reference above)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Imahara

Thanks BVH

 

[elumen8]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

Kramer-Imahara, how do you like your HID? I had to return mine to Wallymart because the SLA didn't seem to want to hold a charge...granted, I bought what seemed to be a partially opened package. There might have been some tampering at the store. I'll pick up another one soon.

Have you thought about switching in any other battery configuration? (NiMh, Li-Ion, better SLA)

JB

 

[BVH]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

A lot of members have talked about modding in a different battery but I don't remember anyone actually doing it and reporting back. You'd most likely loose the ability to run off the DC cord and charge the battery through the same cord unless you have the ability to change out the charger pcb.

 

[elumen8]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

A lot of members have talked about modding in a different battery but I don't remember anyone actually doing it and reporting back. You'd most likely loose the ability to run off the DC cord and charge the battery through the same cord unless you have the ability to change out the charger pcb.

Thank you BVH...my limited knowledge of batteries is fairly evident. Any idea if it's possible or if it would make any difference if a 12V 7AH SLA were somehow fitted in place of the current 3AH without changing the charger pcb? (sorry if this is a silly question).

JB

 

[BVH]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

I've had both mine open and unfortunately, there is no where near the room needed for a even a 4 AH SLA, let alone 5-7 AH SLA. And, man, would it be really heavy it you could do the mod!

 

[elumen8]

Re: Stanley HID Charge level and cell capacity?

Thanks again BVH. I guess the existing battery will have to do.

JB

 

[kramer5150]

I finished modding mine to focus the bulb hot spot and ITS COMPLETELY WORTH the effort. I don't have any before/after pics, but shimming back the lamp concentrates the spill and really packs in the light surrounding the hot spot. It also ~90% eliminates the pie shaped wedge from the beam, and goes a long way to clean up many of the other bulb/smooth reflector artifacts.

Here are pics of the mod. I think BVH was the first one to do this. I used some copper plumbing pipe from OSH. Cut it and trued it flat/square. Thickness ended up being 1.85mm.

I bevel'd one edge of the copper collar by about 45 degrees so that it would sit flat in the reflector. The reflector is not perfectly square, and has a bit of a "slant" to it.

Good fit in the reflector.

I also had to mod the bulb retention clip. The added 1.85mm is too thick for the clips OEM dimensions. I used pliers and carefully flattened it out a little so it could encompass the bulb + copper shim.

Jamie... its a great light, incredible throw and brute output. Don't let the run time limitations fool you. You can always throw a 7-8 ah cell into a padded pelican case and plug that into the handle. Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to wrench a ~4h cell into this thing, its packed in really tight wall to wall. In fact, the 1.85mm I added to shim the bulb back pushed the lamp deeper into the light... hard up against the 3A cell!! I couldn't get the dam reflector back on. I had to trim some of the heatshrink tube off the back end of the bulb to get it all to fit.

Its also a bit un-nerving, knowing you have 10s of thousands of volts in your hands.... Kramer Imahara =>

 

[BVH]

Very nice pictorial, Karl. IIRC, my shim ended up about .075" or 1.9mm - almost the same. By comparison, many of my other shim jobs are in the area of .005 - .010. I'm thinking that the mfg'r wanted more flood and purposely designed them to be pushed forward out of focus. My dramatic pic is in the original Stanley thread, part 1.

 

[elumen8]

Jamie... its a great light, incredible throw and brute output. Don't let the run time limitations fool you. You can always throw a 7-8 ah cell into a padded pelican case and plug that into the handle.
Kramer Imahara =>

Thanks for the tip. I've heard you suggest the external pelican battery set-up before. I have a couple empty cases, I'll give that a shot..that should also work for another 12V halogen spotlight I have.

Great pics and mod tutorial as usual...now go bust some myths

JB

 

[Mjolnir]

The battery indicator on mine starts out orange when I first turn the light on, because of the "turbo" startup mode. However, it will sometimes actually switch to green for a little bit even on the high setting, but other times it does not. If I remember correctly, it used to stay on green for at least a small amount of time when freshly charged.

Any idea which would be the best combination for replacing the batteries? Wouldn't 4 lithium phosphate cells give a voltage pretty close to that of the stock battery?

 

[kramer5150]

The battery indicator on mine starts out orange when I first turn the light on, because of the "turbo" startup mode. However, it will sometimes actually switch to green for a little bit even on the high setting, but other times it does not. If I remember correctly, it used to stay on green for at least a small amount of time when freshly charged.

Any idea which would be the best combination for replacing the batteries? Wouldn't 4 lithium phosphate cells give a voltage pretty close to that of the stock battery?

Hmm no replies...:thinking:
The stock SLA is spec'd at 12V. But it sags under load, how much it dips, I am not sure. Certainly 4x26650 cells in series will surpass the OEM SLA, factoring its voltage sag under discharge. 4xLiPo would be 16.8V hot off the charger. Most automotive ballasts can handle that, but I am not sure what Vin the OEM stanley can handle.

AFIAK no one has successfully performed this mod. I speculate 2-3 road blocks that have stopped members.

-I think the 12V port at the end of the hand grip charges the internal SLA, hot current going in. There is a reverse polarity protection diode in the handle, but thats it. So if you were to plug the cig-cord into 4xLiPo cells, there would be a risk of over charging. them.

-Its doubtful you could retain the use of the OEM wall-wart and internal charge circuit. I am 99% certain it is not sophisticated enough to monitor the individual voltage levels of the 4 cells in series.

-Since the OEM charge methods are out of the picture, you would have to provide the necessary plug terminals for a balanced charging setup. This is the only way to ensure charging the LiPos safely in series, without removing them from the light. This actually wouldn't be all that hard. A Deans plug, multi-pin connector, some dremel work and quick setting epoxy, and I think you are in business.

I gave it some serious thought too... for now I am just going to leave mine OEM.

 

[jcw122]

This may be a bit of noobie ideas here...but has anyone tried using a lower amperage charger? I found a charger that will charge at the same voltage, but at 300mah instead of 500mah. Could this potentially give me a slight increase in the amount of juice in the battery, resulting in greater run times?


P.S. Kramer got any beamshots of afterwards?

 

[Mjolnir]

Kramer I think you might have slightly misunderstood me. I was talking about Lithium phosphate cells (or lithium iron phosphate, or LiFePO4), which have a nominal voltage of around 3.3 volts, which would give a total voltage of a little over 13 volts. I think you thought that I meant lithium polymer (or LiPo), which is a different chemistry with a higher voltage.

Either way, a different charging system would have to be used, like a balancing hobby charger.

Actually, Batteryspace has some "12.8V" LiFePO4 packs of varying sizes; perhaps one of them would fit:
http://www.batteryspace.com/128vlifepo4batterypacks.aspx