SureFire 6P and Malkoff M60 Battery

[sardian]

I'm a little confused. I have a 6P and am ordering a Malkoff M60. I have plenty of protected RCR123's but they will not run as long as CR123's.

I have read that a 17670 will fit in the standard 6P, is this correct. Just drop it in and go.

If so, will this run longer than the RCR123's and as long or longer as the CR123's?

I don't want to use an extender, I want to keep the 6P at it's standard length.

I haven't gotten the M60 yet, about how long can I expect it to run on RCR123's? 45min's maybe?

Thanks for any info.

 

[Marduke]

If you want to run 17670's, you may want to opt for one of the flavors of the M30 instead. It is designed specifically for 1xLi-Ion

 

[Owen]

Maybe closer to an hour, but 45 minutes probably isn't too far off. I haven't done a runtime test, or checked current draw after the battery voltage has dropped, so can't say for sure, but the initial current draw is only 550mA on 2 Li-ions.

 

[bigchelis]

I'm a little confused. I have a 6P and am ordering a Malkoff M60. I have plenty of protected RCR123's but they will not run as long as CR123's.
The cr123 3.7v and RCR123 3v or 3.6v. They should have the same runtime.

I have read that a 17670 will fit in the standard 6P, is this correct. Just drop it in and go. Yes it will drop right in. This one takes the place of 2 cr123 cells and you would have to purchase the M30 designed to run on a single cell. The runtime would be 2 hours plus. Note: the 220 lumens would be at least for 1hour 15 min, but then it will drop, and drop, but keep on going and going for hours.

If so, will this run longer than the RCR123's and as long or longer as the CR123's? Yes, the 17670's will run the M30 longer than the 2 cr123 running a M60.

I don't want to use an extender, I want to keep the 6P at it's standard length. If you got the M60 and wanted the 17670 cells, then you would need 2 cr123 extentions to run the M60. Or just get the M30.

I haven't gotten the M60 yet, about how long can I expect it to run on RCR123's? 45min's maybe? Around an Hour

Thanks for any info.

It looks like you want runtime. The M30 and a single 17670 cell in your 6P will give you 2 bright hours of runtime and many hours of lower output runtimes after that. My M30 in a 6P with a 18650 (25% more capacity than 17670) ran for 2 hours at what appeared full output, but then it started dimming. The M30 will adjust to the lower voltage the battery is emiting and allow you to run on reduced lumens for hours and hours.

Get the M30 and 17670

The M30 is rated 1 to 5.5volts:
At 4.2v it makes 235 lumens, as the battery voltage drops so does the lumens. Great thing is this happens gradually (to your eyes it will appear the same) and as lumens drop the runtime is increased because less amp draw is applied to the cell.

 

[sardian]

Will the M30 with a 17670 give the same amount of light as the M60 and 123's?


EDIT: After reading at the Malkoff sight, I see that it gives the same lumens as the M60 down to 3.3v. So I have answered my own question. I'd be happy with over an hour of full power with this light. Sounds like a good setup. Now to get my order in for some AW batteries.

Thanks so much for all the help. I would have never come up with getting the M30 on my own. I guess the only problem will be making sure I have an extra 17670 on hand since I can't use the M30 with CR123's. There is always a down side :-(

 

[bigchelis]

Will the M30 with a 17670 give the same amount of light as the M60 and 123's?

It will. Both produce around 230 lumens out the front.

If you get the Malkoff M2D Flashlight hosts available this Friday for $39 dollars the M60 on 2 cr123 rechargeables will make 270 Lumens out the front. Read the thread in the this section on it.

With the Malkoff hosts you could use the 18650 cell. My Surefire 6P that I use a 18650 cell was bored and I paid $35 dollars for the body only. With Gene's hosts you get 100% quality and the entire host. Bezel, body, and forward clickie.

 

[opgarlic]

the only drop in output is when the battery gets below 3.3v i think i read somewhere that you dont want your li-ions to get below 3.5v as it is unsafe for the battery and cycle life.

the only malkoff i own as of now is the m30. perfect for a single cell and very bright. i have it in a bored out c2-ha running on trustfire 18650s and spend about 6 hours a night fishing and i use it quite a bit just to light up the levee across the river. havent tested runtime but no fresh cell needed for every outting.

heres some info for you. very good results for m30 and i think this was the thread that sold me on the m30.


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879

 

[opgarlic]

solarforce L2 18650 host is in stock at lighthound and is a very good host without having to bore out a 6p. also you can use 18650 for the lil longer runtime vs the 17670.

 

[Kestrel]

It looks like you want runtime. The M30 and a single 17670 cell in your 6P will give you 2 bright hours of runtime and many hours of lower output runtimes after that. My M30 in a 6P with a 18650 (25% more capacity than 17670) ran for 2 hours at what appeared full output, but then it started dimming. The M30 will adjust to the lower voltage the battery is emiting and allow you to run on reduced lumens for hours and hours.

The M30 with AW protected 17670 has had multiple CPF'ers time it at 1:20, then the protection circuit kicks in -> zero light with no prior dimming. If you are referring to performance with an unprotected 17670, yes you will get dimming but the cell will become permanently dangerous after a severe rundown. Mdocod's two Lithium Ion rechargeable threads have some very good info on this. If the OP wants dimming Malkoff's (with considerably greater runtime) from a protected rechargeable cell configuration, the M60 w/ 1x17670 is a more appropriate solution. If the OP wants the longest runtime _at max output_ (the full 240 lumens), the greater energy density from 1x17670 causes the M30's runtime to win out over M60 w/ 2xRCR123's.

Will the M30 with a 17670 give the same amount of light as the M60 and 123's?

For top performance in a 6P host, the M30 w/ 1x17670 is considerably superior to M60 w/ 2xRCR123's with regards to runtime. Output will be the same. For greater regulated runtime, the M60L is a good solution, but you will still get abrupt cutoff from the protection circuit prior to any dimming behavior.

I've messed with my M30 and M60 quite a bit now, the M60 runtime from a single protected cell is considerably superior to the M30, but maximum output will be less, and it will be unregulated, so you will get a gradual decline in output during the run. Try both, they make very different and interesting setups.

 

[bigchelis]

the only drop in output is when the battery gets below 3.3v i think i read somewhere that you dont want your li-ions to get below 3.5v as it is unsafe for the battery and cycle life.

the only malkoff i own as of now is the m30. perfect for a single cell and very bright. i have it in a bored out c2-ha running on trustfire 18650s and spend about 6 hours a night fishing and i use it quite a bit just to light up the levee across the river. havent tested runtime but no fresh cell needed for every outting.

heres some info for you. very good results for m30 and i think this was the thread that sold me on the m30.


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879

According to Gene the more voltage applied to the M30 up to 5.5v the more amp draw on the cell and the more lumens respectively.

Per my own calculations:
At 4.2volts the M30 will draw 1.1amps
At 4.0volts the M30 will draw 1.04amps
At 3.5amps the M30 will draw .916 amps.

Perhaps the M30 can keep the 1.1 amp draw for a good hour prior to sagging.

Back to the OP: At least per our discussions here you can see the M30 will provide more runtime and equal output as the M60.

Best of luck with the drop-in you end up choosing. What about the MC-E for your Surefire 6P. 500 lumens plus..:twothumbs

 

[sardian]

One more question. If the M60 is fine to use with one 18650 at 4.2v, why is the M30 needed when using a 17670?

I know the capacity is different but the voltage is the same?

I see the M60 as more versatile (in case I decide to use it in a different host in the future, such as the new Malkoff body).

Will the M60 not work with the 17670's?

 

[sardian]

Best of luck with the drop-in you end up choosing. What about the MC-E for your Surefire 6P. 500 lumens plus..:twothumbs

I sure wouldn't need a hand warmer in the winter, that's for sure....does it come with asbestos gloves?


As a side note, will the M60 work with 17670's? My guess is yes but not much better than a couple of RCR123's?

I only use protected cells.

EDIT: I guess I should have looked at that link you posted above. It tells the tell of the difference in the M30 and M60 with single cells. More light and longer run time. Just not as versatile: no RCR or CR123's can be used with the M30. There are just too may options.....I guess that's why we end up with so many different lights!!!

Thanks again.

 

[mdocod]

I'm a little confused. I have a 6P and am ordering a Malkoff M60. I have plenty of protected RCR123's but they will not run as long as CR123's.
The cr123 3.7v and RCR123 3v or 3.6v. They should have the same runtime.

Not all RCR123s will have the same runtime. 3.0V cells are either buck regulated or of a lower energy density chemistry, in either case, the runtime will be less with the 3.0V RCR123s.

I have read that a 17670 will fit in the standard 6P, is this correct. Just drop it in and go. Yes it will drop right in. This one takes the place of 2 cr123 cells and you would have to purchase the M30 designed to run on a single cell. The runtime would be 2 hours plus. Note: the 220 lumens would be at least for 1hour 15 min, but then it will drop, and drop, but keep on going and going for hours.

Perhaps you are thinking of an 18650, a 17670 will not run that long on an M30.

If so, will this run longer than the RCR123's and as long or longer as the CR123's? Yes, the 17670's will run the M30 longer than the 2 cr123 running a M60.

Again, maybe you are thinking of an 18650, a pair of CR123s has more stored energy than a 17670 at these drain rates.

-Eric

 

[bigchelis]

One more question. If the M60 is fine to use with one 18650 at 4.2v, why is the M30 needed when using a 17670?

I know the capacity is different but the voltage is the same?

I see the M60 as more versatile (in case I decide to use it in a different host in the future, such as the new Malkoff body).

Will the M60 not work with the 17670's?

You could use the M60 on a single cell, but it will run un-regulated and the runtime will suffer. I used my M60 in a single cell before and the output is considerably lower. In other words 1 cell in M60 will not kill it, but you are underpowering it. Less Lumens and Less runtime

The most verstile is the M30. My goal was the same as yours. What will give me more runtime and the M30 wins. If you are lucky enough to get the Malkoff hosts put a 18650 and it will further increase the runtime.

The M30 can also be used in a CR123 hosts like a Solarforce L2M.
With a single cr123 it makes 235 lumens for about 40 minutes.
With a single 3v primary it will make 140 lumens for over 1 hour and run for hours untill the primary dies..You essentially get the M30, M30L, M30LL, M30LLLLL ect.... All that in one P60 drop-in.

 

[mdocod]

You could use the M60 on a single cell, but it will run un-regulated and the runtime will suffer. I used my M60 in a single cell before and the output is considerably lower. In other words 1 cell in M60 will not kill it, but you are underpowering it. Less Lumens and Less runtime

Actually, running the M60 on a single 17670 or 18650 is perfectly fine, and will result in a steadily declining output with about double the runtime of running an M30 on the same cell.

The most verstile is the M30. My goal was the same as yours. What will give me more runtime and the M30 wins. If you are lucky enough to get the Malkoff hosts put a 18650 and it will further increase the runtime.

Again, the M60 on a single 17670 or 18650 will have more runtime than an M30 on a single 17670 or 18650.

The M30 can also be used in a CR123 hosts like a Solarforce L2M.
With a single cr123 it makes 235 lumens for about 40 minutes.
With a single 3v primary it will make 140 lumens for over 1 hour and run for hours untill the primary dies..You essentially get the M30, M30L, M30LL, M30LLLLL ect.... All that in one P60 drop-in.

I think you mean a single 3.7V RCR123 to get the 235 lumens, 40 minutes might be optimistic here.

 

[Kestrel]

You could use the M60 on a single cell, but it will run un-regulated and the runtime will suffer. I used my M60 in a single cell before and the output is considerably lower. In other words 1 cell in M60 will not kill it, but you are underpowering it. Less Lumens and Less runtime

Less runtime? Have you tested this? I just ran an M60 last night on a single _protected_ AW 17500 (1100 mAh vs 1500 mAh of the 17670) and I got the following:

• ~200 to ~140 lumens for hour one.
• ~140 to ~80 lumens for hour two.
• ~80 lumens to ~20 lumens for hour three.
• After the fourth hour, ~10 lumens, got bored & went to bed.

To compare, my M30 on the same cell would do about an hour, albeit the full output of ~240 lumens, until protection circuit shutoff -> no light. Which is better? Neither, they end up being _completely_ different lights. I would find the M60 (w/ single cell) much more useful if I am on a long camping trip where I might need extended performance, but I would find the M30 much more useful on a shorter nighttime walk in the city where I would require higher performance for not nearly as long of a time.

CPF motto: Get both.

 

[sardian]

I'll be more direct.

How long will a M30 give me 200+ lumens with a 17670?

Will it be longer than what I can get from the M60 and two 3.7v RCR123's? How much longer?

From what I'm getting, the benefit of the M60 is it's ability to use 123's (and Li-Lion') but will not give full brightness as long as the M30.

I guess I thick skulled. This is all new to me. All I know is I have a 6P and I really like it I just want it go give more light for a longer time without buying all those 123's.

 

[Kestrel]

I'll be more direct.

How long will a M30 give me 200+ lumens with a 17670?

Will it be longer than what I can get from the M60 and two 3.7v RCR123's? How much longer?

From what I'm getting, the benefit of the M60 is it's ability to use 123's (and Li-Lion') but will not give full brightness as long as the M30.

I guess I thick skulled. This is all new to me. All I know is I have a 6P and I really like it I just want it go give more light for a longer time without buying all those 123's.

I'm sorry for muddying the waters with the M60 single cell debate.:tinfoil:

All numbers are assuming using protected AW rechargeable cells.

M30 w 1x17670, ~240 lumens, 1h 20min. Abrupt shutoff.
No lithium primary backup except for a single 123 + spacer, ~170 lumens or so for an hour or so? Graceful decline with primaries.
A cheaper rechargeable configuration, purchasing 1 cell plus one backup. This single-cell configuration is more reliable.

M60 w 2xrcr123, ~240 lumens, 50min to 1 hr. Abrupt shutoff.
Good lithium primary backup, 2x123, 240 lumens ~ 1h 30 min. Graceful decline with primaries.
A more expensive rechargeable configuration, purchasing 2 cells plus two backups. This two cell configuration is theoretically less reliable.


For more fun,

(All I'm trying to show below is that the M30 is more efficient in the smaller hosts, but once you get to the larger hosts with capacities greater than 1x17670 (6P-sized) / 1x18650, the M30 is less useful as it cannot take more than a single lithium cell. The M60 starts offering considerably longer runtimes in the larger hosts.)

M30 w 1xrcr123 (same output, less runtime, but the best option for the very short 3P-type hosts)
M30 w 1x18500, 1x18650 (larger single-celled hosts), same output but considerably longer runtime.
M30 w 2xAA's (9P length host), ~130 lumens for 1h 30 min or so (depends upon alkaline or NiMH rechargeable)

M60 w 1x17670. Long runtime at less output, graceful decline.
M60 w 2x17500 (9P length host), ~240 lumens, 1:45-1:50
M60 w 2x18500 (FM-type host): ~240 lumens, 2h 15 min.
M60 w 2x18650, etc etc.

And we could also get into the L's and LL's for considerably increased runtimes at lower outputs as well. Great for backup lights.

For the 'Warm' Malkoff's released this year, runtime is comparable but output is ~30% less, so that gets confusing if you don't notice the 'W' in postings.

There are also the Malkoff P7's, the M60 MC-E's ... yes it's getting complicated again, my sincere apologies. Malkoff's were so much simpler last year before all of the new options.

Hope this helps,

 

[sardian]

I got it now. Ideal (for me) would be a bored out 6P body, an M30, and one 18650.

I'll most likely buy the Malkoff host (when available) and use this setup in it.

But for now, I'll use the M30 in my 6P with 17670's and enjoy I always carry two lights so if my 6P battery dies, I'll use my backup (P3D).

Thanks,

 

[Kestrel]

I got it now. Ideal (for me) would be a bored out 6P body, an M30, and one 18650.

I'll most likely buy the Malkoff host (when available) and use this setup in it.

But for now, I'll use the M30 in my 6P with 17670's and enjoy I always carry two lights so if my 6P battery dies, I'll use my backup (P3D).

Thanks,

You got it.:thumbsup:

And then you'll buy an M60 six months after your M30 (like I did) to try the other configurations.