Surefire Titan T1A Five Minute Timer

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Not sure if I could post this on the earlier thread which has been corrupted by a tech issue and archived.

As discussed on earlier threads, the SF T1A shuts off after five minutes on the lower 25% of its brightness range. Many of us would never use those levels anyway but others, like me, would.

I did find the level I liked was within the first 25% so it would shut off in 5 minutes. So here is the experiment I doing now. I measured the travel of the bezel and found it to be 1.75" from off to full. Figuring 25% of that gave me 0.438" (7/16"). I marked the bezel and barrel at this position and now I'm trying different settings around that mark to see how close it is, if any of that makes sense.

I tried this myself a few days ago and thought I had found the 25% spot only to have it 'disappear' a couple of tries later. After a couple of hours I gave up, I needed to get some other work done.

Last night I was at home out on the deck enjoying some quality time tracking aircraft, satellites and wildlife on a moonlit evening. I had my Surefire Mil-Spec on yellow-green to light the stuff on the table while maintaining my night vision.

The T1A was on a neck lanyard and I was comparing it to a couple of other lights for finding raccoons in the trees. After using the T1A at full brightness I turned it down to the lowest setting where it was comparable to moonlight at close range.

After several minutes I noticed that the T1A did not shut off. I timed ten more minutes with the light staying on and reset the light off and back on to the lowest setting. This time, after five minutes it shut off as advertised.

I then tried off, full brightness for a moment, then dim. Again, the light appeared to stay on indefinitely. Was this a 'Eureka!' moment, or was I imagining things?

After a couple more successful tries, I cycled the light from bright to dim, left it on and went to sleep. Several hours later, it was still on!

It seems that, on my light anyway, if the light is turned to full brightness for a moment and then to the dimmer settings, the five minute cutoff doesn not apply. However, if the light goes from off to dim, intentionally or accidentally, the timed shutoff works as advertised. I took the light off the lanyard to make sure that movement of the tailcap wasn't bumping the potentiometer just enough to keep resetting the timer.

Can anyone else replicate these results? Does the light have to go to dim from full brightness to eliminate the shutoff or does it just have to be above the 25% and then below it? Is there an Easter egg to cancel the shutoff timer altogether?

Perhaps this observed hysteresis explains why I couldn't find the 25% mark a few days ago. Or, maybe it was the Barossa Valley Shiraz.

 

[Kiessling]

Very interesting findings

 

[bigchelis]

I hope others notice this too. I really wanted a Titan T1A, but after reading the many user rants about that 5 minute timer I changed my mind.

Anyone else notice this please advise...

 

[MSaxatilus]

I noticed the same thing.... if you turn the light on from off up to (about) 25% the 5 minute timer will take effect. If you have the light on full and then wind back to <25% then the cutoff will not function.

MSax

 

[Sean]

I just tried it and mine shut off. How long are you keeping it on high and how low are you going?

 

[Mjolnir]

In all honesty, is an accidental activation protection like this really all that necessary for this light? I mean, what are the chances that you will accidentally twist the bezel and turn on the light? I can see a tail switch getting bumped accidentally in a bag, but I think there would be a much smaller chance of the bezel getting inadvertently loosened. Because of the size of this light, it probably won't be a bag, and I don't really see the head getting loosened in a pocket, unless the threads have an incredibly low level of friction.
Would people really have complained if there was not safety feature for this light? I don't really think they would, at least not as much as they are because of this protection.
For all of the time and money surefire puts into designing these lights, they really shouldn't be doing strange things like this, especially not in a $239 light.

For that much, they should have a fingerprint scanner that scans your thumb before you can turn the light on.

 

[greenLED]

In all honesty, is an accidental activation protection like this really all that necessary for this light? I mean, what are the chances that you will accidentally twist the bezel and turn on the light?

Many! Years of reaching into my pack to grab my minimag, only to realize the darned thing had turned itself on (somehow) and the batteries were dead, can attest to that.

 

[Mjolnir]

I think that a minimag might have a slightly easier time turning itself on, since its head is larger than its body.
However, that's really beside the point. There is a much simpler solution to accidental activation: Put the light in a pouch or holster. If the light is in a pouch that covers its entire body, there is virtually no way that it will accidentally loosen itself (except for some severe vibrations, but that doesn't seem likely). If you are in a situation where you can't risk the light turning itself on, then it would be very easy to just put it in a small pouch.
Perhaps if it is on a keychain a pouch would not be as practical, but it doesn't seem as likely that it would turn itself on on a keychain.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

I just tried it and mine shut off. How long are you keeping it on high and how low are you going?

I'm not sure how long it has to be on high but with my light it seems that 20 seconds works fine and low has to be somewhere prior to the gentle stop that turns the light off. You can actually feel the stop without turning the light off, then back off slightly and the cutoff will stay inhibited. Is there perhaps a 'kilroy' involved as with some other twisty designs?

One the cutoff inhibit is active, it appears that you can adjust the power up and down arbitrarily and the light stays on until fully twisted off.

Of course, you don't really know if the light will stay on until five minutes have passed. Today I have had some attempts to keep the light on that weren't successful as I experimented with twist rate, off time, bright time etc.

I'm spending way too much time with this little light...

 

[DimmerD]

Just to clarify the manual states that "The auto shut-off will automatically turn off the light after 5 minutes if it's within the 0 to 25% range of the bezel dial." (quoted exactly from the manual) It also says "the light must then be reset to the off position when you wish to turn the light on again.
So I read this post, pulled my T1A out of my pocket and turned it to full for a second or 2 and then to as low as it will go. I proceed to type (I am slow) and after 5 minutes it shutoff. I then turned it up (towards on) and it immediately lit up, I didn't have to turn it off then on like it says. 5 minutes later it is now off again. Pick it up, turn on some more (slightly) and it comes on very dim. So you don't have to "reset' it to off then on, but mine isn't staying on either. Remember I am trying this as low as it will go, not 25% of the bezel range. ( which I assume is how much the bezel will travel measured from 0 to 100%)

Okay it's been 6 minutes since I last "turned it on some more" and it's still on. It is really dim, just like when you first turn it on, it's 5:35 right now. I wil keep it on (against my beliefs as it IS my EDC now) and not put it back in my pocket so i can't get bumped. I will post back later to let you know the results, right now it's still on.

 

[DimmerD]

Okay at 5:59 it's still on, I turned it towards off ( it barely turned) maybe a 1/16 of an inch, it really didn't get any dimmer that I can notice by looking directly into it. It went out shortly after that, I was typing this so I don't know exactly when but it was definitely less than 5 minutes.
The low on this thing is so low that some people say it's not really useable. I have turned it on after waking up at night to let the dog out, the lowest setting IS too low for me to use at that time, but thats not to say it's too low for someone else at any given time using it for something else. What I mean is after waking up I can see the light on low if you put the light right on it, say you had a map. You could read the small portion of the map with it, but I would need more light to see more map. This light is really geared for those who want a "little" light, and I mean a little.
So far I can't repeat Vox's findings exactly, but I will say this thing will go very low and I mean LOW.

 

[Illum]

I think this is the "driver issue" a thread here was referring to sometime around pre-production

 

[jeffb]

Recently received a Surefire T1A and it has become my pocket EDC. I had an original Titan (serial #005) and felt that the interface was the best that I had used.

I had been EDC,ing 2 level (Hi.Low) twistys, but find that that the availability of variable lows very useful. I also often use a Spy005 with 1 of the positions set to a very low "low".

The 5 minute timer IMO is useful, as when turning off after using in normal ambient conditions, the emitted light is not visible unless looking directly at the LED. I find the timer to be helpful in preserving battery life, as I had not turned the T1A completely off.

Since the light is not made to tail stand, it negates using in "candle" mode, so I will use another light if needed.

Just my opinion, but I really like the size and features, the LED is very white (towards blue), but I prefer that tint!

jeffb

 

[DimmerD]

I have unable to successfully repeat my findings, the light now must be reset to off then back on to get it to come on. (like the manual says).
I have not been able to replicate what Vox has found either. I can get it to stay on but I have to turn the bezel about a quarter turn.
The five minute timer isn't a bother for me, I usually don't use the light that low.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

I have unable to successfully repeat my findings, the light now must be reset to off then back on to get it to come on. (like the manual says).

Thanks for taking time to indulge my madness and experiment with your T1A.:thumbsup:

I was able to get the light to come back on, and stay on, without going to off as you discovered. But it is not consistent, maybe the 25% position sensing is electromechanical, rather than programmed by resistance value, and sometimes it doesn't see the transition to the cutoff region. Both methods are used to sense throttle lever position on aircraft for example.

I let the light run on a very low setting for several hours again last night, twisted it a little and it shut off.

I need to put this silly little light back in the drawer and get a life. Just kidding, of course...

 

[Phredd]

maybe the 25% position sensing is electromechanical, rather than programmed by resistance value, and sometimes it doesn't see the transition to the cutoff region.

I couldn't get mine to stay on at all. If your theory is correct, maybe it can be disabled. Has anyone looked inside yet?

 

[DimmerD]

Heh, I played with it so much last night while watching TV the wife finally said, "whats the matter with your new light?"
I tried various things to no avail, sometimes it stayed on and others not. I was hoping to find an easter egg that Vox may have initially discovered.
Actually you can see the light when it's all the way low without looking directly into it, but it needs to be in a very dark environment. Will play with it some more tonight, the flashlight that is.:sick2:

 

[AvidHiker]

Ugh, hate to hear these stories of inconsistent behavior.

Still, to me the timer is a useful feature since I prefer not to use extras like holsters (but this is a great suggestion for titanium titan owners!). The only use I would have for the lowest setting would be stealthy reading of a map or similar (YES, mine is just bright enough to read by with my night-adjusted eyes). In such cases, the timer might still be annoying, but no biggie. It does prevent use as a locator, but I honestly can't imagine any reason I would want to use it like that - a sizable tritium glowring makes a fantastic locator, much more visible and reliable IMO.

Has anyone looked inside yet?

AFAIK, the T1A has yet to be disassembled. The original Titan disassembly can be found here (perhaps the same method used could be applied to the T1A?):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=180426

 

[Phredd]

Ugh, hate to hear these stories of inconsistent behavior.
The original Titan disassembly can be found here (perhaps the same method used could be applied to the T1A?)

The original has three holes through which to compress a retainer ring. No sign of that on the aluminum version. I'll try to take a look tonight to at least get an idea of how to start disassembly.

 

[DimmerD]

Theres a couple of screws in the head, it looks like an easy disassemble to me.