SureFire UDR Dominator - Review, Photos and discussion
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GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
Any more progress with other battery chemistries or sizes to get the "oem" charger functionality working again? My battery pack seems to have randomly stop working all of a sudden - (very odd) was working great and just out of the blue - the red blinks of death that don't stop until i remove the battery pack - (or) Has anyone been successful in taking apart the OEM rechargeable as of yet?
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
Beuller.... Beuller.... Beuller....
It can be both problems with the old age of the cells themselves, and problems with the charge control board inside the battery. It should be taken to an electronics repair shop to check all the elements on this board. If something goes wrong, it's easy to replace. If everything is fine, then you need to put new 26700 or something of good capacity with a current of at least 20 amperes.
It can be easily disassembled, there is a retaining ring on one side, which must be turned with a retaining ring puller. You just have to turn it in a circle, I don't remember which way anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx2iD5N0xjk
If the battery pack research shows that the control board is in order and the batteries are in order, then you need to contact the support of the SF, perhaps something has deteriorated in the guts of the flashlight due old age. The battery pack seems to have a 2-year limited warranty, and the flashlight itself has a lifetime warranty, if I remember correctly.
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GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
Nice! - Thanks @Desert.Snake - What is the battery chemistry? there was much debate on what it was - any ideas? Should i use protected cells or non-protected cells? What is the largest Mah available in this size?
Much thanks again!!!
Regards
Much thanks again!!!
Regards
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
ok guys and gals - I did some homework after i opened my SF battery housing (thanks to @Desert.Snake - but what a complete PITA it was to get those dam rings out- WOW!) - It seems that a company in Canada was the original maker of the battery - they have since moved away from this size. These batteries were a "blended" (IBR) chemistry and Moli discovered that if this chemistry was not maintained (sitting on the shelf) they had a tendency to degrade and in some extreme cases the cells would short out internally (catch fire) due to lack of use and/or charge. These cells were originally designed for use in the Milwaukee power tools (24v) - Moli suggested that a high nickel chemistry was far more stable, and that they were not aware of any companies that are making the "INR" instead of the "IBR" in the 26700 size - I also found some new lithium ion cells in the 26700 - but i also read that charging the lithium battery in series was NOT recommended - Moli mentioned that a company in China named Lee Shin had reverse engineered the Moli 26700 cells and does indeed sell a direct replacement - but that puts me back at square one with possible unstable cells, and who know what conditions the cells are made in. I went further to call and speak with SureFire directly on this subject and they were not aware of the issues that Moli pointed out - so they are going to do some homework of their own and get back with me on what is a suitable replacement cell - Does anyone here have suggestions?
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Sorry, sometimes I don't read the forum quickly))
I think it's not chemistry that matters, but power and current. The voltage has not changed - the cells are 3.7 volts, that is, any modern 26650 with good current and capacity will give a good result. Unprotected ones are needed, since this battery pack has its own control board. Although, if you put 2 protected ones, then it will be mega-protection, but sudden shutdowns are possible, I don't even know, I never tried.
Wow, you found some very interesting information on this chemistry, thanks!
About capacity
I don't know about the maximum current and capacity, I don't follow it very closely, but this man has an excellent base that is replenishing, you can view and select the most suitable of the available, e.g. 26650 high-current IMR
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common26650IndividualTest UK.html
I think it's not chemistry that matters, but power and current. The voltage has not changed - the cells are 3.7 volts, that is, any modern 26650 with good current and capacity will give a good result. Unprotected ones are needed, since this battery pack has its own control board. Although, if you put 2 protected ones, then it will be mega-protection, but sudden shutdowns are possible, I don't even know, I never tried.
Wow, you found some very interesting information on this chemistry, thanks!
About capacity
I don't know about the maximum current and capacity, I don't follow it very closely, but this man has an excellent base that is replenishing, you can view and select the most suitable of the available, e.g. 26650 high-current IMR
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common26650IndividualTest UK.html
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GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
@Desert.Snake - I would tend to agree with your thoughts as they relate to general reference to "power and current" however when looking for a "drop-in" replacement cell there are many things to consider - the biggest one for me is charging the lithium battery in series (as it is definitely not a good idea) and i am not sure what to do about that. I want a cell for turn-key so that i can still use the internal recharge of the UDR. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
@Desert.Snake - Thanks for the link to the battery page - I read that it is not recommended to charge the lithium ion in series - can anyone explain why this is, and by looking at the internals of the SF battery pack - "if" i were to put unprotected (or protected) lithium ion cells instead of the "IBR" cells is that configuration with the cells spot welded together - is that considered series?
It's a pity that I don't have this flashlight anymore, I would be do a test. If I remember correctly, there is a voltage output and from the point between the batteries, with the help of this, brains of flashlight understand that in front of them is a lithium rechargeable body, and not a set of primary batteries.
and in this regard, I would like to ask you for help - to measure the voltage between all the pads on the battery body
At all they can be charged sequentially and in parallel, or whatever, if the correct controller is installed)) The same batteries in screwdrivers and electric cars, they are connected in series and in parallel, and charge perfectly.
But when replacing these IBR with new 26650 it is imperative to pick up identical copies of batteries - the same internal resistance, the same capacity, and the same production time (in an idel from the same batch), then it will work well.
and in this regard, I would like to ask you for help - to measure the voltage between all the pads on the battery body
At all they can be charged sequentially and in parallel, or whatever, if the correct controller is installed)) The same batteries in screwdrivers and electric cars, they are connected in series and in parallel, and charge perfectly.
But when replacing these IBR with new 26650 it is imperative to pick up identical copies of batteries - the same internal resistance, the same capacity, and the same production time (in an idel from the same batch), then it will work well.
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
Thanks for the help @Desert.Snake - Values are as follows: U1=5.39 U2=5.40 U3=0.0
It's a pity that I don't have this flashlight anymore, I would be do a test. If I remember correctly, there is a voltage output and from the point between the batteries, with the help of this, brains of flashlight understand that in front of them is a lithium rechargeable body, and not a set of primary batteries.
and in this regard, I would like to ask you for help - to measure the voltage between all the pads on the battery body
At all they can be charged sequentially and in parallel, or whatever, if the correct controller is installed)) The same batteries in screwdrivers and electric cars, they are connected in series and in parallel, and charge perfectly.
But when replacing these IBR with new 26650 it is imperative to pick up identical copies of batteries - the same internal resistance, the same capacity, and the same production time (in an idel from the same batch), then it will work well.
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usdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Any other news on the possible fires caused by these? Mine has been sitting in a safe deposit box along with my other valuables since I came back to England last year (Feb 2020). I forgot to take the battery out of the light
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
Sure Fire was not even aware of this issue until i brought it to their attention. It was a Moli engineer that explained it to me (they stopped using this chemistry entirely because of this problem) Sure Fire has stated that they are looking into this and will get back to me with more info when they have a resolution.
It is unlikely that they will help, but hope for the best
Thanks for the measurements, very interesting))
The_Driver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Did they get back to you yet?
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
No - but i will contact them again
This is exactly what I thought to myself. Wow with a head this massive for it to not hold turbo mode indefinitely is a deal breaker for me.
I'm not sure if I was seriously entertaining buying this light, but I never owned a Surefire, and all the Surefire praise in here had me checking out their website, and this light in particular. But no way for that price, and with turbo step down. Can't believe it can't indefinitely handle 2400 lumens.
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
They did get the situation resolved - they also changed their battery pack (capacity and definitely chemistry) - upgraded a bit also - now 5000mah/36WH/7.2V I have not taken it apart to see the new cells - i will get around to it eventually - anybody else get the new battery and take her apart yet? I have a feeling it is probably the new SureFire rechargeable 18650 - anyone else care to chime in here?
GMUGNIER
Newly Enlightened
I have no idea what you are talking about - there is no throttling - where did you get that impression - this light is an absolute BEAST - and worth every penny - You might need to consider a cheaper alternative - I can certainly understand that - but don't bad mouth an exceptionally engineered device cause you can't justify cost to mommy - lol
How about from the exact person that I quoted, and from this exact thread where it was discussed if turning the turbo off and then back on really fast AFTER THE STEP DOWN would that immediately bring the max output back. Hence a discussion about its turbo step down.
So to reference something that was discussed in a review thread about a flashlight is to bad mouth that flashlight lol? And I said nothing about wanting a cheaper alternative, I said that for me that price isn't worth it if it can't hold max output indefinitely.
