Tail standing sucks

nerdgineer

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
2,778
Location
Southern California
Many users seem to think tail standing (TS) is an important or even essential feature for their lights. I find this puzzling.

I don't mind TS where it doesn't diminish other features, like in front twisty lights (Civictor V1, Fenix L0X...) where it doesn't add any bulk or cost as these lights have solid square tails anyway. I MIGHT consider using ceiling bounce to light a room with a big Mag D type light - which already has a square tail - but I think I'd use my small lights (2xCR123 and under) mostly for handheld direct lighting and not for ceiling bounce. If I had to TS one, I'm sure I could find something to put under it.

What I don't like is having to work with recessed tail switch buttons on small tail clicky lights, which is what TS requires. Recessing the tail button:

1) makes the tail of the light bulkier because it now sticks out further and isn't tapered like it would be if the button just stuck out, and

2) makes it harder for me to reach the button with my thumb using a normal (sort of ice pick) grip. Instead, I have to push down into the light from further behind instead of just squeezing the button from sideways like I would do with a ball point pen. Maybe I have a fat thumb, but I often end up having to hold the light with a contorted kind of "dart thrower"s grip just so I can get my index finger onto the switch, which is annoying.

I'm particularly surprised at those who want both a tactical (momentary) clicky switch AND TS on their lights. The whole point of a "tactical" light is to be able to flash it (with the thumb, I think) while holding it in a strong ergnomic grip. A recessed tail button really gets in the way of that for me. If it's going to be tactical, then let the switch stick out and the heck with the TS.

It's why the EL XM-3, the Nuwai-2611X (= the Sharper Image 1W 1xCR123 light), and other protruding switch lights are easier to use than - say - the VB-16 which also has a forward clicky but is designed to TS. It's not the VB-16 designer's fault, he was just providing what we kept yelling for him to provide, but it wasn't for free.

I know that many boutique lights (McLuxes et al) offer those flared, three pronged tail switch shrouds which allow TS and provide "sideways" access to the tail switch through big scalloped cut outs. I think these acknowledge my view; but to my eye, they are also ugly and ruin the lines of these otherwise elegant light designs. Some have tail shrouds bigger than their bezels in front. They add huge bulk, not to mention the expenses for fancy machine work.

So that's my 2 cents. Is it just me or does anyone else think a trimmer light with no TS is better?
 
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Re: Tail standing is overrated....

I use my lights in a tail stand mode often, but it's only important in smaller EDC lights only to me. I often don't buy EDC lights that I really like for the simple fact that they don't tailstand.

I really couldn't care less if the light has a tactical clicky. Reverse clickies work just fine for me, and these days are allowing some nice UI options like those of the Fenix and Rexlight models. I think the new tactical switch on the Lumapower M1 is a great idea. It allow tail stading, but is also very easy to operate, whether you're using the momentary or the two stage reverse clicky switch.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

i agree. tailstanding lights suck. i like a protruding clicky SOOO much better.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

I guess it depends on the light. I have an ML1 that did not come with the capability to tail stand. I then bought an oregon ring for it. It extended the walls in the tailcap about 1/8 of an inch. Probably not even that. It can now tail stand and the button doesn't get pushed on by accident so easily.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

On a hike in the hills or mountains tailstanding doensn't make much sense. Not too many flat, level surfaces to use! ;)

A couple of mornings ago the power was out so I used my S27 McGizmo light in tailstanding mode to shower and shave by. Bouncing the beam off of the ceiling provided a wonderful and diffuse beam that illuminated the bathoorm quite nicely, even on low. I may try it again, as I even seemed to shave a little closer than normal! ;)
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.

I find tail-standing more important with HID lights as they are much powerful & useful when lighting up a room.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Lights which won't tailstand on their own can usually be propped up next to something else and shine on the ceiling.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

NAW said:
I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.

I find tail-standing more important with HID lights as they are much powerful & useful when lighting up a room.

LOL! NAW, take off your sunglasses man! You don't need them when you aren't running a 1400 lumen HID in your bathroom!!! Honestly, my 150-200 lumen lights do a fine job of illuminating a room when the power goes out. Hell, so do those expensive beeswax candles that sit in my dining room unused, even in blackouts.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

A tail stand is a lot like a bezel - it adds a little bit more length, but it helps protect sensitive parts of the light.

On a really small light, I'd like to see the bezel as shallow as possible and no tailstand, but for a normal "walk around" light (the U2 comes to mind), I want a bezel that is a bit deeper and a tailstand to protect the light in case of a fall.

I can see issues though if it gets in the way of activation. For me it's fine though.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Yeah, I know what you mean. It is overated. The only time that I've ever actually done that out of necessity was when the power went out. In the past I've just stood a magLED on it tail and shinned it on the ceiling. In the event that I really needed an EDC light to tail stand, which wasn't already designed to, I'd wrap it in a sock ball, stand it in a shoe or figure out some other way of getting it to point up. I'm with you nerdgineer, I'd be using direct light if I wasn't in the convenience of my home.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Life is too short for lights that can't tailstand.

There is no reason why a light needs to have a completely recessed switch in order to tail stand. Think about it, how many tables or chairs have a solid base that goes all the way around the bottom. All lights need are two or three "legs" that are as wide as possible, but still leave enough room for big thumbs. Just look at the new tactical M1 or the Space Needle light.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

A tail standing tailcap would usually prevent it from been switch on in my pocket.

That's my observation when I'm using Surefire EL1 clickies where I have a few 'hot pants' incident compared to nil with the Jetbeam MkIIx or other clickies with tail standing capability.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Destroid Monster said:
A tail standing tailcap would usually prevent it from been switch on in my pocket.

That's my observation when I'm using Surefire EL1 clickies where I have a few 'hot pants' incident compared to nil with the Jetbeam MkIIx or other clickies with tail standing capability.
So remembering to lock out the tailcap would fix that.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

When you have extended blackouts, you can REALLY start to appreciate the tail standing function.

I'd MUCH rather have a light that can very easily stand at a perfect 90 degrees on it's own, than have to rig something each and every time to get a non-tailstanding light to stand up crooked.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

I prefer the switch recessed not for tailstanding but to prevent accidental activation.
LOTC is a solution but its cumbersome (for me) one handed. YMMV.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

For me the ability of tc to tailstand is not a necessity but if its incorporated in the design then its a +point, an added value. Most important for a tailcap is the accessibility of the thumb to operate the clicky at any angle relative to the barrel is important. Restricted access not so good. Won't do without a LOTC feature obviously for safety reasons.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

SuperNinja said:
When you have extended blackouts, you can REALLY start to appreciate the tail standing function.

I'd MUCH rather have a light that can very easily stand at a perfect 90 degrees on it's own, than have to rig something each and every time to get a non-tailstanding light to stand up crooked.

+1 and it prevents accidental activation (sometimes :naughty: ).
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

NAW said:
I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.

I'm completely different - I use tail standing more often with small lights than with big ones. I even didn't get an Arc AAA because it doesn't tail stand. I got a Peak Matterhorn instead, and I find tail standing very useful when moving around the house at night or when going to the bathroom in a hotel and so on.

Hans
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Art Vandelay said:
Life is too short for lights that can't tailstand...

+1

The added usefulness outweighs the slight added difficulty in accessing the switch, IMHO.
 
Re: Tail standing is overrated....

Then there goes the tactical advantage of having a protruding switch. It seems you can't have it all no matter how you slice the pie. Like others have said, I prefer TS more to prevent accidental activation than actually using it to TS.

Perhaps it doesn't bother me because I don't have huge hands like a Norwegian fisherman and don't have any problems using something as small as a Fenix L1P or the Ultrafire equivalent. I would however, take either type of clicky over a twisty any day.

KuoH

tussery said:
So remembering to lock out the tailcap would fix that.
 
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