The Last Great President - The Top 4 Answers

[Bravo25]

[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
He gave away the Panama Canal, so that now the ChiComs can shut down 1/4 of the international shipping at will and giving them an incredible strategic position when they decide to move on the west.


[/ QUOTE ]

No he didn't. That deal was setup when we built it. It had a deadline. I agree that we shoud've kept it. I don't always require people provide proof of their statements. I can find that on my own. But you can't blame Carter for this.

 

[Silviron]

The ORIGINAL treaty :

On November 18, 1903, a treaty between the United States of America and the Republic of Panama was signed making it possible for the United States to build and operate a canal connecting the Atlantic and Pacific oceans through the Isthmus of Panama. The treaty granted the United States, in perpetuity, the use, occupation and control of a Canal Zone, approximately 10 miles wide, in which the United States would possess full sovereign rights " to the entire exclusion of the exercise by the Republic of Panama of any such sovereign rights, power or authority."

What part of IN PERPETUITY is unclear?

While the process to give the canal back STARTED before carter was elected, the actual "give back" passed Congress during carter's administration by ONE vote. He could have vetoed it with no serious political repercussions. (It was ramrodded through Congress by Frank Church... another guy that never met a leftist cause that he didn't support, and the guy DIRECTLY responsible for gutting our intelligence gathering capabilities throughout the world)

But Carter made a deal with his buddy Omar Torrijos, (another leftist dictator) that took over Panama by coup d'etat from it's democratically elected President Arnulfo Arias.

As he could have easily stopped it, he chose not to. So I'd say that yes, I CAN blame him.

 

[jayflash]

Silver, you have provided partial information which doesn't represent the whole truth. Although you are convinced that President Jimmy Carter, a former nuclear sub commander, was actively attempting to weaken the USA, the facts prove otherwise. Why would a president with distinguished military background work against his country?

Carter began the military build up that Reagan inherited. Our military was decimated from Vietnam and Nixon and Ford, who preceded Carter. Carter also inherited the high economic inflation from his predecessors - don't you remember Ford promoting his WIN (whip inflation now) pins in 1975?

Our dependance upon OPEC began well before Carter's reign and Bush's energy plan is even more dependant upon foreign oil. So, yeah, pick and choose the parts of facts you want to believe. I hope others who are curious about Carter will take the time to learn the whole story.

 

[BB]

Boy, I am just having so much fun with my downloaded 2004 HISTORICAL TABLES for the Whitehouse 2004 budget proposal:

Again, from the table labeled:

Table 8.2—OUTLAYS BY BUDGET ENFORCEMENT ACT CATEGORY IN CONSTANT (FY 1996) DOLLARS: 1962–2008

The budget was falling under president Ford and Nixon (end of Vietnam War--which was very costly--in many terms)... However, the lowest real budget numbers, since 1962 occurred in the Carter Administration:

Year Military Budget adjusted for Inflation in constant 1996 Dollars
1962 $288 Billion
1976 $232 Billion (last year of Ford)
1977 $231 (first year of Carter--but pres. can't do much in first year)
1978 $231
1979 $238
1980 $246 (last full year of Carter)
1981 $260 (first year of Reagan in office)
1984 $310
1988 $365 (last Year of Reagan)
1989 $370 (first Bush I--stays roughly flat through Bush 4 years).
1998 $262 (the lowest military budgets, under Clinton)
1999 $261 (the lowest military budget since 1981)

Jayflash says: "Carter began the military build up that Reagan inherited."

From the numbers, Carter only did a modest increase well into his term. Reagan did a continuous increase throughout his two terms.

Only if you look at the budget numbers, not adjusted for inflation does it look like Carter dramatically increased the military budget (and I remember the Misery Index--Inflation + Interest Rates that was invented just for Pres. Carter).

I really recommend that people download this and other information from Whitehouse Office of Management and Budget. It really helps to understand and frame these discussions.

I won't go into Carter's other issues as president... Or the support he has continued to give dictators and terrorist since.

-Bill

 

[BB]

This Book, Reagan's War documents:

[ QUOTE ]
(from Newsmax):

Schweizer's book, which is going straight to the top of the best-seller list, reveals that during the 1980 campaign when Reagan was gaining in the polls, Carter "dispatched [pro-Soviet industrialist] Armand Hammer to the Soviet Embassy for a secret meeting with Ambassador Dobrynin to ask for Soviet help" with Jewish emigration and other potential vote-getting issues for a sitting president. The Soviets were promised that "Carter won't forget that service if he is re-elected."

[AND]

Schweizer reports that when Reagan was running for re-election in 1984, Carter himself visited Ambassador Dobrynin warning there "would not be a single agreement on arms control, especially on nuclear arms, as long as Reagan was in power."

Carter wanted the Soviet Union to help the Democrats regain the presidency. History shows his prophecy about no hope for a nuclear arms agreement to be wrong. It was a part of Reagan's success in ending the Cold War on America's terms.

Asking Carter to explain to Americans this part of his stewardship is most "reasonable," in Schweizer's view. When he asked the former president about this, all the author got was "No comment."

[/ QUOTE ]

So... There are some people that believe, and so far Carter has yet to address, that he was not as pure as the driven snow...

-Bill

 

[Silviron]

Oh Sorry, I didn't think that I had gotten on that transporter to Bizzarro World. Thought I was still in the Earth Prime dimension. My mistake.

Back in the dimension in which I existed, Carter, (like Kerry currently) negated any positive things that he might have done while in the military with his support of leftist, anti-American activities later in life. I don't honestly know if Carter has been trying to weaken America because of malice or ignorance, or if he is just a good but naive man misguided by his idealism. I used to believe that it was the latter, but now I'm not so sure.

I guess that in THIS dimension Carter must have maintained the fine traditions he learned at the USNA and as a serving officer throughout the rest of his life, rather than betraying them as he did back in my dimension.

However, I agree with you about OPEC / foreign oil dependance. So... When can we start massive drilling offshore of California, in Alaska, Open up the capped wells in Texas, Oklahoma etc.?

When will the leftists that complain about oil dependence quit blocking alternatives? When will they quit complaining about wind generators because birds fly into them or because they don't like them spoiling the views from their mansions.

When can we build some more nuclear power plants?

 

[Bravo25]

[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:


When can we build some more nuclear power plants?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as soon as we figure out what to do with the waste.

 

[Silviron]

We know what to do (safely) with the waste. The problem is the NIMBYS who oppose the WIPs and who will not allow the waste to be moved through their "baliwicks"for storage elsewhere....

I live 100 miles from the major WIPP and one of my old partners was one of the engineers who built it. He assures me it is completely safe short of a volcano erupting directly beneath it. And the odds of that are pretty darn unlikely from a geological standpoint.

 

[ikendu]

Silviron said:...When will they quit complaining about wind generators because birds fly into them or because they don't like them spoiling the views from their mansions.

I've adopted a policy of not posting on these forums unless I see something I figure the forum folks will agree with so there's not much in this whole thread on which I can post.

But! Here is something!

Walter Chronkite is one of those who is against the off shore wind energy systems off of Nantucket. He says it isn't just "it spoils the view" or "not in my back yard" but if I got a chance to ask him a question it would be:

"OK, Walter, have you stopped using electricity?"

"'Cause if you haven't...and you are against wind, but you are for the environment, where do you expect to get your electricy from?"

I was in Florida last week on Sanibel Island. It is a great place to put up some wind energy...either on the island proper...or out in the water. I wonder how long it will take us to adopt this cost effective and green technology? Longer than it should if Walter has his way.

BTW...I'll take a risk on this one, IMHO, Carter might just possibly be THE president with the highest moral integrity our republic ever had (with the possible exception of George Washington...who was virtually offered a "kingship" and turned it down for democracy). Carter was certainly not perfect but for honesty and high moral fiber...I give him high marks.

 

[Silviron]

Ten years or even five years ago I probably would have agreed with that last paragraph... maybe not the MOST moral, but certainly in the top five.

Even though I have a couple of pretty serious personal issues and many political issues with his decisions during his Presidency, I still gave him the benefit of the doubt, and kind of honored him for his morality and his Habitat for Humanity efforts.

But, what he has done in the last five years and the more I read about him, I wonder if he isn't merely naive but something worse. For me, the jury is still out in that respect.

I do believe that he was the WORST President (so far) in my lifetime (starting with H.S. Truman) As much as I despise Clinton, I think Carter is worse as a political leader.

 

[Wylie]

Nixon just got busted and set up a lot that Ford pushed through and this is where the peanut pusher gets a lot of the credit from as I see it.
Believe it or not my vote's with Nixon.

 

[ikendu]

Actually Nixon was the first president to make energy independence a priority (although you see how that has worked out, we are more dependent than ever). I highly respect that initiative (although the Watergate thing was pretty awful).