Anglepoise
Flashlight Enthusiast
Might I suggest that reflectors that have been modified or especially made to work with the 'jokers' have some sort of permanent identification mark or things will rapidly get out of hand.
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The New Luxeon III Generation Issues
- Thread starter Kiessling
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This is pretty bad if there is a focal point difference and the part number remains the same. There isn't any real way of knowing what's in a particular light, if it's properly focused (matched optics) or not.
As for the shoppe we have both types posted. Does this mean I should mark the description designating the ones that are Jokers and the ones that are not. Oiye!
Wayne
As for the shoppe we have both types posted. Does this mean I should mark the description designating the ones that are Jokers and the ones that are not. Oiye!
Wayne
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interestingly, the K2 calls out a 2.5mm optical center height IIRC. Is that the same as the new Lux IIIs ?
The data sheet for the Lux3 does not call out the optical distance and thus it's up for interpretation. There's a spec of 0.49mm (FLOAT) relative to the top of the black plastic which is meaningless since the black plastic has no dimensional specifications per the drawing.
According to my source at Future they say that both lux3s are within spec since the spec (FLOAT) allows for the LED to move in the Z axis by this amount.
:wow: :huh2::sick2:
According to my source at Future they say that both lux3s are within spec since the spec (FLOAT) allows for the LED to move in the Z axis by this amount.
:wow: :huh2::sick2:
tylerdurden
Flashlight Enthusiast
Does this issue affect Luxeon Vs as well? The last batch of V stars I got have the round slug.
Tyler,
Good Q! To date, Future is not providing any information beyond the aforementioned lack of information and lack of any dimensional specifications. :shrug:
My personal take is that previously, Lumileds held that the die could "float" somewhere in the range of .49 mm. Now we have a new reference point( lowered top of slug) from which the die can float but without knowledge of before and after heights of slug and indication that this can indeed be considered a new "starting point" , we be in the dark. Since Mag owns the IP of designing in any adjustability of focal allignment, this is not a real viable approach.
Good Q! To date, Future is not providing any information beyond the aforementioned lack of information and lack of any dimensional specifications. :shrug:
My personal take is that previously, Lumileds held that the die could "float" somewhere in the range of .49 mm. Now we have a new reference point( lowered top of slug) from which the die can float but without knowledge of before and after heights of slug and indication that this can indeed be considered a new "starting point" , we be in the dark. Since Mag owns the IP of designing in any adjustability of focal allignment, this is not a real viable approach.
wasBlinded
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think the same consideration applies to the LuxV. I have a U2 that had a donut hole and a weak emitter. I replaced the emitter with another "old" style, still had the donut hole. Then I replaced that one with a "new" one, and the donut hole was gone - suggesting a lower die height.
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Wayne - Actually, a number of optical systems do rely on the die to black shoulder distance (mine are an example). I knew it was not specified, but - it had been reasonably consistent in the ones I attempted to measure.
With the light I am building, there was no way to reference the height to the slug.
Just MHO, but if you were to track your Luxeons with a different part number reference for the "new height" vs "old height" you may find some new value in some of the old parts as people try to fit these pieces together.
With the light I am building, there was no way to reference the height to the slug.
Just MHO, but if you were to track your Luxeons with a different part number reference for the "new height" vs "old height" you may find some new value in some of the old parts as people try to fit these pieces together.
I received a rather disturbing piece of info from a fellow CPFer yesterday. He spoke with his Future rep in regards to the Jokers and was told that this change in the height of the slug was "corrected" and that those that were different are now all out in the population and new production is back to original height.
WTF !!!!!!!
Now I am not sure how much creedence to put in this last comment from a Future rep nor am I clear on who's on first or if it is even a ball game.
I do know that possibly my last flashlight has 12th hour modifications to dimensions to optimize it for jokers and it now seems that I better set aside enough jokers to complete the sets.
Ironically, my Future rep told me the good news is that the K2 will have a dimensionally defined image location relative to the Z axis. Well cool for this LED that is still in dubious state of production. In the mean time, it would appear that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applies to location of image in Luxeons and one either arms themselves with multiple optic solutions dictated by individual LED's or one designs optics with excessive acceptable location of image tolerances. :thinking:
While some people at Lumileds master {Edited due to content } techniques on themselves, some of us on the outside are left even further in the dark. Anyone got a light?
WTF !!!!!!!
Now I am not sure how much creedence to put in this last comment from a Future rep nor am I clear on who's on first or if it is even a ball game.
I do know that possibly my last flashlight has 12th hour modifications to dimensions to optimize it for jokers and it now seems that I better set aside enough jokers to complete the sets.
Ironically, my Future rep told me the good news is that the K2 will have a dimensionally defined image location relative to the Z axis. Well cool for this LED that is still in dubious state of production. In the mean time, it would appear that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applies to location of image in Luxeons and one either arms themselves with multiple optic solutions dictated by individual LED's or one designs optics with excessive acceptable location of image tolerances. :thinking:
While some people at Lumileds master {Edited due to content } techniques on themselves, some of us on the outside are left even further in the dark. Anyone got a light?
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It would appear my edit was a bit too late! Yup, I said what was quoted so ban me from the McGizmo Forum! :green: PLEASE!! 
Maybe AFTER you delivered the 27LT ... maybe ... 
:devil:
So ... this means that Lumileds may be reverting back to "old style" and the jokers will be just that ... a "special" run of misaligned LEDs? That caused quite some trouble for some of us ... :green:
bernie
:devil:So ... this means that Lumileds may be reverting back to "old style" and the jokers will be just that ... a "special" run of misaligned LEDs? That caused quite some trouble for some of us ... :green:
bernie
asdalton
Flashlight Enthusiast
McGizmo said:Since Mag owns the IP of designing in any adjustability of focal allignment, this is not a real viable approach.
I thought that Mag Instruments' patent was for the cam-based focusing in their C and D cell flashlights, not adjustable focusing as such. In fact, I know that my Streamlight Twin-Task 3C and PT Surge both have it.
Anyway, I suppose that these joker Luxeons will be fine in Mag mods, where you set the focus manually. :shrug:
Bernie,
Since Lumileds has never provided Z axis dimensions of the image location, they will continue to be in spec if they alter its location based on the phase of the moon. If its initial anchor point is physically relocated due to new heights in the slug, so be it. If they want to alert us to possible repercussions cool. If they choose to let us find out on the fly as seems to have been the case well it's their call. :shrug:
Andrew,
I don't know what the actual IP is that Mag owns in terms of adjustment nor do I know whether they stick to actual IP or use this as a means of opening a legal door and abuse of might making right. There is also a possibility that other companies like Streamlight are in fact in use of Mag's IP and doing so under licensing agreements. I do believe or understand that the Pelican M6 lost its adjustability of image focus due to patent infringement; real or bluffed. This is fortunately none of my business and I apologize to those whose business it really is for my comments and mean no malice or offense; beyond that which is offensive by its very nature! :nana:
Since Lumileds has never provided Z axis dimensions of the image location, they will continue to be in spec if they alter its location based on the phase of the moon. If its initial anchor point is physically relocated due to new heights in the slug, so be it. If they want to alert us to possible repercussions cool. If they choose to let us find out on the fly as seems to have been the case well it's their call. :shrug:
Andrew,
I don't know what the actual IP is that Mag owns in terms of adjustment nor do I know whether they stick to actual IP or use this as a means of opening a legal door and abuse of might making right. There is also a possibility that other companies like Streamlight are in fact in use of Mag's IP and doing so under licensing agreements. I do believe or understand that the Pelican M6 lost its adjustability of image focus due to patent infringement; real or bluffed. This is fortunately none of my business and I apologize to those whose business it really is for my comments and mean no malice or offense; beyond that which is offensive by its very nature! :nana:
tvodrd
*Flashaholic* ,
The issue is raising quite a bit of stink here. I can't imagine what's going on at SF and others using Lumaleds for "portables!" I, fortunately, have a "reserve" and will let Don fix optical management solutions for these things. (A man gotta know his limitations! ) The slugs are cold-formed, and (IMO) tightening the tolerance on the height shouldn't pose much of a challenge to their supplier. If accountability in Lumaleds' engineering dept. is as poor as it is where I work, we can expect more of this sort of thing in the (and from) Future!
Larry
) The slugs are cold-formed, and (IMO) tightening the tolerance on the height shouldn't pose much of a challenge to their supplier. If accountability in Lumaleds' engineering dept. is as poor as it is where I work, we can expect more of this sort of thing in the (and from) Future! Larry
Larry,
Most "families" keep their laundry to themselves. I would expect that there are surprises discovered as well as some not yet revealed to those whose responsibilities are to fix that which is not right. It would depend on the length, continuity and awareness of the food chain involved. :shrug:
If a significant change is implimented and not reported by thosse making the change to those it might effect, the discovery or surprise is left for those it effects. For some, the joke may first be discovered by the end users and reported back through the supply chain with the manufacturer the last to find out. The forest may not be obvious to one tasked with monitoring a tree. :shrug:
I would love to find out I have made a mountain of a mole hill! If I would stop bumping into the mountain it would be easier to convince me that it is a mole hill easily avoided! :green:
Perhaps the solution is to merely design a specific flashlight around each LED one is fortunate enough to procure. One could have a range of components and talor a build to the unique characteristics of the subject LED.
Philisophically, perhaps the lottery just got bigger with a more valuable prize and the assurance that there will me more loosers! :thumbsup:
Most "families" keep their laundry to themselves. I would expect that there are surprises discovered as well as some not yet revealed to those whose responsibilities are to fix that which is not right. It would depend on the length, continuity and awareness of the food chain involved. :shrug:
If a significant change is implimented and not reported by thosse making the change to those it might effect, the discovery or surprise is left for those it effects. For some, the joke may first be discovered by the end users and reported back through the supply chain with the manufacturer the last to find out. The forest may not be obvious to one tasked with monitoring a tree. :shrug:
I would love to find out I have made a mountain of a mole hill! If I would stop bumping into the mountain it would be easier to convince me that it is a mole hill easily avoided! :green:
Perhaps the solution is to merely design a specific flashlight around each LED one is fortunate enough to procure.
One could have a range of components and talor a build to the unique characteristics of the subject LED.Philisophically, perhaps the lottery just got bigger with a more valuable prize and the assurance that there will me more loosers! :thumbsup:
Please enjoy the edit:
While some people at a Lumen led facility masterfully use their craniums to alleviate any accidental rectal mishap due to an errant star base bezel insertion using one of the new techniques that they have not yet tried themselves.
While some people at a Lumen led facility masterfully use their craniums to alleviate any accidental rectal mishap due to an errant star base bezel insertion using one of the new techniques that they have not yet tried themselves.
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HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Don - you might be interested to know that the this thread link is in fact circulating through LL and Future, thanks to a very supportive Future rep. The sales group was definitely caught flat footed, which I think is actually quite unusual. The engineers and managers at LL are even more detail anal than you and tvrod - if you can believe that.
I am not sure if the net result of this "temporary height adjustment" situation is good or bad, but I am certainly in better shape today than last week, now that I have run a complete set of tests on the "old height", the "new height" and the "Xlamp" with the various optic possibilities.
In some ways, it would have been better for them to just it at the "new height" as I would then be ready for the K2.
I am not sure if the net result of this "temporary height adjustment" situation is good or bad, but I am certainly in better shape today than last week, now that I have run a complete set of tests on the "old height", the "new height" and the "Xlamp" with the various optic possibilities.
In some ways, it would have been better for them to just it at the "new height" as I would then be ready for the K2.
