The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins?

[Bones]

There appears to be a welcome trend developing at Sanyo and Duracell to market lower capacity, more durable cells for all but very high-drain devices.

Duracell, for example, is now encouraging the use of its 2000mAh low self-discharge cell and its 1700mAh non-low self-discharge cell for moderate to low-drain devices:



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Even more interesting, Sanyo has now taken this trend a step further with the introduction of a lower-capacity sibling for the Eneloop.

As shown by these images posted by minimig, it's a 1000mAh low self-discharge cell which appears specifically intended for ultra low-drain devices such as remotes and mice:



Meanwhile, Energizer continues to flog it's high-capacity cells, and shows no sign of bringing a low self-discharge cell to market nor encouraging the use of it's much more reliable lower capacity non-low self-discharge cells.

I can't help but wonder what Energizer is thinking. Even the most the most non-observant consumers should eventually realize their low capacity/low self-discharge cells are still 'going and going' years after their high-capacity Energizer cells have been rendered useless by gross self-discharge.

Not that I give a damn what happens to Energizer, but as the purveyors of the best selling brand of rechargeables, they are directly responsible for giving vast numbers of consumers a rechargeable experience which is substantially diminished compared to that offered by Sanyo and Duracell.

 

[45/70]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I've often wondered about Energizer's strategy. It almost seems as if they've been trying to steer consumers away from rechargeable batteries by offering poor performing NiMH's, eg. the 2500's. This practice would bring consumers back to their alkaline offerings, where there is a lot more money to be made. It doesn't seem like this would work for long, however.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Dave

 

[325addict]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

indeed, those 2500mAh energizers are.... utterly worthless, to say it in a neat way. After charging them, they are empty WITHIN A WEEK(!) due to self-discharge

Now that's what I call a bad battery.

I've had very good experiences with the Varta "ready 4 use" LSD NiMH (2100mAh) and their "ordinary" 2700mAh ones.

Devices seeing frequent use get the 2700mAh ones stuffed in, and other devices I don't use so much are fed by the LSD 2100mAh ones.


Timmo.

 

[apete2]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I bought 12 energizer 2500s a few years ago and 4 still work good with normal self discharge but the other 8 are empty within a DAY.

 

[metlarules]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I've often wondered about Energizer's strategy. It almost seems as if they've been trying to steer consumers away from rechargeable batteries by offering poor performing NiMH's, eg. the 2500's. This practice would bring consumers back to their alkaline offerings, where there is a lot more money to be made. It doesn't seem like this would work for long, however.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Dave

I agree! Their aa 2500 are pure garbage and their d cells with a aa 2500 stuffed inside are worse. Needless to say I don't buy anything that energizer puts out.

 

[swiftwing]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I've been seeing the Sanyo Harmolattice in shops here for awhile now but have not been able to find any information about them. The thing is, they're half the capacity, but not really any much cheaper than the 2000mah LSDs. As far as i rememebr, they are the same price as the chinese GP Recykos, which make them only slightly cheaper than eneloops, for half the capacity. Unless they've improved the LSD characteristics yet again, i'd just buy recykos or eneloops. They need to be cheaper, or better in some way.

 

[lolzertank]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I've often wondered about Energizer's strategy. It almost seems as if they've been trying to steer consumers away from rechargeable batteries by offering poor performing NiMH's, eg. the 2500's. This practice would bring consumers back to their alkaline offerings, where there is a lot more money to be made. It doesn't seem like this would work for long, however.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Dave

Maybe their strategy is to try to make people use their L91/EA91 lithiums, which would make them a great deal more money than people buying rechargables. None of the other manufacturers have this option. Duracell has their Ultras, but those don't come close to the lithiums.

 

[45/70]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Maybe their strategy is to try to make people use their L91/EA91 lithiums, which would make them a great deal more money than people buying rechargables.

Humm, hadn't thought of that. Those, I actually use, to a limited extent. Either way, I'm sure they'd prefer to sell their more consumable versions.

Dave

 

[clintb]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I think 45/70 is onto something. Energizer is in the business to make money, and the primary cell market is the cash cow, especially if they could get more people using the L91/EA91 lithiums. Heck, I'd just be happy if they'd push the fantastic, non-LSD, 2200 mAh NiMh to market; the ones that ship with the 15 min charger....

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

I just posted a thread the other day wondering if/when ENergizer was going to put their hat into the ring with a LSD offering. After reading those responses and these here it seems they are purposely thumbing their nose at LSD batteries.

Kind of reminds me of Duracell's stance toward NIMH which until recently didn't have any rechargeables. Looks like they couldn't hold out forever, but it seemed strange they just ignored the entire market for rechargeables for such a long time.

I guess their cash cow really is the primary battery as they have a finite life and once 90% of people start using rechargeables 100% of the time, companies like Duracell and Energizer will be seriously impacted.

 

[Marduke]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Kind of reminds me of Duracell's stance toward NIMH which until recently didn't have any rechargeables. Looks like they couldn't hold out forever, but it seemed strange they just ignored the entire market for rechargeables for such a long time.

7+ years is recent?? :thinking:

 

[R@ndom]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Energizer has moderate self batteries. They claim 70% charge left after 6 months. I charged a couple 2 weeks ago. They are still reading 1.35 today.

I'm sending a couple to silverfox.

Also I'm seeing these pure energy lsd's in my supermarket. They have a capacity of 1400...

 

[jtr1962]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Maybe their strategy is to try to make people use their L91/EA91 lithiums, which would make them a great deal more money than people buying rechargables. None of the other manufacturers have this option. Duracell has their Ultras, but those don't come close to the lithiums.

Given that the lithiums retail for as much per cell as the rechargeables, I can't imagine this strategy working too well except in very specialized cases of temperature extremes where rechargeables currently don't cut it. And that's a very niche market. Fact is throw away cells of any kind are facing a diminishing market in the future. They're becoming increasingly socially unacceptable. I suspect at some point in the not too future the more common sizes of throw-away cells (AAA, AA, C, D, 9V) will be banned from sale by legislative fiat. I really can't think of any good reason to continue to buy them myself at this point. Any battery manufacturer who has failed to gain a good market share in the rechargeable market will find itself hurting once these bans kick in. IMHO, Energizer is making a huge marketing mistake here.

 

[richardcpf]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Nice to see this new low drain technology being developed, but i think these cells are designed for LAZY PEOPLE. I mean it is really so hard to charge a battery like twice a year?

As a flashaholic, I do periodic manteinance to all of my rechargeable batteries. I charge once a Month all my li-ions even if they were not used, and my nimh once every 2 to 6 months. I only use them for remote controls and wireless mouse, so the drain is minimal.

Lets do the math: the difference is not that much.

After 6 months, the eneloop will maintain 90% if its power. that means 1800ma.

In the other hand, an energizer 2600ma will maintain 75% of its power, which is 1950ma.

So if you are lazy enough to not want to simple recharge a battery after 6 months of use, I recommend low drain battery.

 

[Marduke]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

After 6 months, the eneloop will maintain 90% if its power. that means 1800ma.

In the other hand, an energizer 2600ma will maintain 75% of its power, which is 1950ma.

So if you are lazy enough to not want to simple recharge a battery after 6 months of use, I recommend low drain battery.

1) There is no Energizer 2600.

2) Self discharge is usually much higher of most regular cells, on the order of 30% per month.

3) Eneloops typically start out at 2100+, not 2000.

Eneloops offer other advantages also, such as higher voltage under load, lower internal resistance, more tolerant of abuse, higher number of charge/discharge cycles, longevity, etc.

 

[lolzertank]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Given that the lithiums retail for as much per cell as the rechargeables, I can't imagine this strategy working too well except in very specialized cases of temperature extremes where rechargeables currently don't cut it. And that's a very niche market. Fact is throw away cells of any kind are facing a diminishing market in the future. They're becoming increasingly socially unacceptable. I suspect at some point in the not too future the more common sizes of throw-away cells (AAA, AA, C, D, 9V) will be banned from sale by legislative fiat. I really can't think of any good reason to continue to buy them myself at this point. Any battery manufacturer who has failed to gain a good market share in the rechargeable market will find itself hurting once these bans kick in. IMHO, Energizer is making a huge marketing mistake here.

It really seems like they're trying to do this though; especially with the $5 rebate on a 4 or larger pack of lithiums.

IIRC, they trying to market the Energizer 2450 having a lower self discharge. Oh wait, I found the thread. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=198088

Energizer, what are you doing??? :shakehead Your lithiums aren't exactly worth the 1000x price per cycle to most people and your Energizer 2450s aren't really LSD.

 

[Bradlee]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

So if you are lazy enough to not want to simple recharge a battery after 6 months of use, I recommend low drain battery.

I fully admit that remembering (and finding) all the devices I have NiMH's in and recharging them every couple months (6 is optimistic in my experience) is too much work for me...

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

7+ years is recent?? :thinking:

Duracell rechargeables since 2001? You are mistaken. I hadn't seen or owned Duracells until Eneloops were on the market. By that time we were already in the third generation of NIMH. Yeah I stand by my statements Duracell really missed the boat on jumping aboard the NIMH train.

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

7+ years is recent?? :thinking:

Recently is 3-4 years. Considering NIMH has been around since the mid/late 90s in a mainstream fashion. Yes, Duracell is a relative newcomer which is odd considering before NIMH it was the second largest recognizable battery manufacturer competing with Eveready/Energizer.

Up until the Duraloops debuted I don't remember there ever being a generation before that, where there were rechargeable Duracells. What I am saying is it seemed Eneloops debuted way before there was ANY Duracell rechargeable battery. Eneloops were probably like the 5th generation of NIMH for Sanyo, to the then not even first generation Duracell rechargeable.

Duracell had the mindset akin to the pictures of my signature. They were living in the 1970's even though we were in the year 2005 before they decided to get with the times..

 

[Sugarboy]

Re: The NiMH AA Cell Capacity War is Over - Energizer Wins...?

Duracell rechargeables since 2001? You are mistaken. I hadn't seen or owned Duracells until Eneloops were on the market. By that time we were already in the third generation of NIMH. Yeah I stand by my statements Duracell really missed the boat on jumping aboard the NIMH train.

i'm pretty sure there're Duracell rechargeables for many many years.. at least in Hong Kong.. never tried it tho