The World's Oldest Light Bulb Has Been On for 110 Years

[jtr1962]

NonSenCe,

They could make incandescent bulbs which last 50 years but like I said it makes no sense. You'll end up spending far more on electricity for any given light level (because dimmer, longer lasting bulbs are less efficient) than you'll save by not having to replace the lamp. This isn't some kind of planned obsolescence but simple economics. Fluorescents and LEDs ARE in fact designed to last longer than incandescents simply because there aren't any inherent tradeoffs associated with increasing lifespan.

 

[blasterman]

If the bulb is running on a stable power supply it could in theory run a very long time. The main killer of contemporary light bulbs is the rapid inrush of current causing flexure in the filament and making it break.

Several years ago I bought some long life 75watt incans, and put several dozen of them up in a banquet room. Some have been running well over 20k hours.....how long does a standard incan last again? Main difference is the filament in the long life bulbs is solid and has lot of structural support. Also a lot less bright.

Note you can buy classic style bulbs like this; marconi style etc.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'm already doing that. I've had a Luxeon running at 350 mA since January 2004. I didn't have a light meter when I first set it up. As a result, I really can't give anything beyond an estimate for how much it's faded (comparing it to one of the others in the batch of 5 I bought I'd say it's ~65% to 70% of initial brightness). My original purpose setting it up was simply to see how long it'll last before it dies. Seeing the way it's going, I'm picturing myself typing a post here when I'm 100 (that would be November 2062) about how my Luxeon from 2004 is still going strong. It's well past 65,000 hours and showing no signs of dying.

Please do keep us posted. I admire the consistent leadership you have provided on the subject of LED's over the years.

The links in OP post, led me to this amazing documentary called The Light Bulb Conspiracy – The Untold Story of Planned Obsolescence Parts of it are in other native languages, but you get the point.

 

[Steve K]

The links in OP post, led me to this amazing documentary called The Light Bulb Conspiracy – The Untold Story of Planned Obsolescence Parts of it are in other native languages, but you get the point.

I think I have two (edit: three) issues with this alleged conspiracy:

1. it's possible that an industry might conspire to sell a product that is lousy (needs frequent replacement), but as long as there are alternatives, the consumer doesn't have to buy the lousy product. The prevalence of flourescent lights in non-residential applications is a pretty strong indication that the conspiracy wasn't successful. (or are flourescents part of the conspiracy somehow?)

2. Light bulbs aren't an example of obsolete technology, so much as an example of a design that wears out fairly quickly. Planned obsolescence is when old designs are no longer supported (this is forced obsolescence) or new products have attractive features that induce consumers to replace their current product before it wears out (this probably applies to LED flashlights).

3. Do light bulbs wear out too fast? Long life bulbs have been available for a long time, as well as magic gadgets that you can install in lamps to increase life (they are just diodes that reduce the power to the bulb by half, making them live long and very inefficient).

Planned obsolescence does exist, but I don't see any evidence that the conventional incandescent is part of that.

I'm not sure that planned obsolescence is intrinsically bad either. The bad aspect is that it produces a waste stream and wastes resources. If we were talking about obsolete software or any other information based technology, like music, would anyone care if people wanted to replace software or music on a regular basis?

How many CPF folks have a pile of LED flashlights that they don't use anymore? Is it because of a conspiracy, or is it just intrinsic human behavior?

regards,
Steve K.

 

[EZO]

Long life bulbs have been available for a long time, as well as magic gadgets that you can install in lamps to increase life (they are just diodes that reduce the power to the bulb by half, making them live long and very inefficient).

Apparently, you are referring to the now defunct Bulb-Miser Inc.'s sole product of the same name. When I first encountered one many years ago I was very curious to know how it worked but the only way to know was to break it open and I wanted to actually use the thing and see what it would do. It's now my understanding that it is not a diode, but a thermistor that was used and that it was actually a spin-off product developed by NASA for the Apollo program as a "thermal shock absorber".

Wouldn't ya know it but interest in this "magic gadget" or alternatives has resurfaced as the light bulb ban approaches.

As an experiment, after installing a new light fixture in a hallway in my home I then installed two Bulb-Misers along with 60W long-life bulbs. With the gadget in the sockets the bulbs burn dimmer than without but I really have never noticed any brightness warm-up. The bulbs have been in daily use since then, sometimes for extended time periods and they were installed 26 years ago.

They allegedly save a small amount of electricity but I have no proof one way or the other.

 

[Steve K]

Apparently, you are referring to the now defunct Bulb-Miser Inc.'s sole product of the same name. When I first encountered one many years ago I was very curious to know how it worked but the only way to know was to break it open and I wanted to actually use the thing and see what it would do. It's now my understanding that it is not a diode, but a thermistor that was used and that it was actually a spin-off product developed by NASA for the Apollo program as a "thermal shock absorber".

I think both the diode version and the thermistor style device have been around for a while. Never owned one myself, so I don't have any direct experience.

My guess is that the thermistor style device is a negative temperature coefficient sort of device. In these, the resistance decreases as it heats up. The advantage is that it reduces the inrush current that is inherent with incandescents. There is always some resistance when it warms up, so it is inevitable that the bulb will be a bit dimmer.

Wouldn't ya know it but interest in this "magic gadget" or alternatives has resurfaced as the light bulb ban approaches.

that link goes on to discuss the alternatives of using the bulb-miser or the diode equivalent, as well as the technique of using a bulb rated for higher voltages as means to getting a longer bulb life. I can't understand why they don't just tell people that you can buy long life bulbs that are effectively the same as a bulb designed for higher voltages. This isn't a secret, and there is no conspiracy to keep the info from people (other than by the folks who want to sell you a gadget to stick in your light socket). My guess is that some folks love the excitement and drama of a good conspiracy theory.
Science and education is just too boring...?

regards,
Steve K.

 

[EZO]

I skimmed the article I linked intending on a more thorough reading later. But yes, there were knock-offs that must have used something other than thermistors. How does the diode version work? I have a basic understanding of electronics but am no expert.

 

[Steve K]

My assumption is that the diode version just blocks half of the AC cycle, cutting power in half. That seems a bit severe, so maybe it was a bi-directional zener, and just knocked xx volts off of the waveform voltage? Heck, you could just use a resistor to get the same basic result, so this is probably not what was used.

The plain diode approach is appealing to me because it would cause very little heating in the diode itself, compared to other devices (including the thermistor) that would produce a noticeable amount of heat.

Incandescents are extremely sensitive to changes in applied voltage, so a thermistor or plain resistor seems the most likely way to implement a "bulb miser" type of gadget.

Going back to "the oldest light bulb", it was designed for 230vac (I believe), and is now operating at 120vac, so you can see how long a bulb can live if you cut the applied voltage in half! I wonder if anyone has any info on how long this bulb would have lasted if it had always been powered by 230vac?

Steve K.

 

[EZO]

My assumption is that the diode version just blocks half of the AC cycle, cutting power in half. That seems a bit severe, so maybe it was a bi-directional zener, and just knocked xx volts off of the waveform voltage? Heck, you could just use a resistor to get the same basic result, so this is probably not what was used.

The plain diode approach is appealing to me because it would cause very little heating in the diode itself, compared to other devices (including the thermistor) that would produce a noticeable amount of heat.

Incandescents are extremely sensitive to changes in applied voltage, so a thermistor or plain resistor seems the most likely way to implement a "bulb miser" type of gadget.

Going back to "the oldest light bulb", it was designed for 230vac (I believe), and is now operating at 120vac, so you can see how long a bulb can live if you cut the applied voltage in half! I wonder if anyone has any info on how long this bulb would have lasted if it had always been powered by 230vac?

Steve K.

Thanks for your explanation Steve.

There is some interesting evidence that this bulb could withstand as much as 250 Volts but may have in fact been designed for 110V. There is some information that it had a life expectancy 30 percent longer than competitor's bulbs of the era and a 20 percent greater efficiency, so if anyone knows the numbers on the other bulbs its projected life expectancy would be known.

 

[EZO]

This is interesting:

"The Electric company have an analytical scale so sensitive that you can pluck out an eye brow and weigh it. Then cut the eye brow in the middle and they will tell you which half weighs the most; or take a piece of paper an inch square and weigh it, make a dot on the piece of paper with a pen and you can tell how much the dot has added to the piece in weight, thus actually weighing the dot.

The filament cutter is another piece of machinery if possible more wonderful than the scale. The filament before baking is a chemical plastic substance called cellulose. This machine cuts it into threads 18 inches long and only ½ the size or diameter of an ordinary human hair. When properly baked the filament becomes pure carbon. One of the secrets of the business is the formula for the filament, the baking and the other treatment of it.

The cellulose employed in the manufacture of this filament will be chemically pure and it will be produced by entirely new and recent process which will insure the production of a filament of a chemically pure carbon very compact and homogenous in structure. The carbon will be so compact and hard that its hardness will approach that of the diamond which everybody knows is pure carbon. A short piece of the filament will easily scratch the hard glass and even quartz."

Excerpt from The Shelby News :
The Shelby Electric Works – A Description of One of the Enterprises of Shelby - December 18, 1896
​

Speaking of "high tech", this must have seemed as cutting edge as anything we experience like that today. It also gives some insight into why that bulb is still burning today.

 

[StarHalo]

Did some digging:


Inventor Adolphe Chaillet's patent:

Detail of an "in the wild" copy of a Shelby bulb:

The catalog you would have ordered the bulb from in 1900:

A different model of bulb, but the box the Centennial bulb came in looked something like this:

Shelby Co. assembly employees, 1900. This is probably the group that assembled the Centennial bulb:

Lab testing of another "in the wild" Shebly bulb, at 120 volts. Not too shabby:

 

[Fernbay]

What a great thread.

Thanks for posting the extra pics StarHalo :thumbsup:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Did some digging:

Shelby Co. assembly employees, 1900. This is probably the group that assembled the Centennial bulb:

Greta will likely think I'm being sexist, but those are actually some nice looking women from that era. I won't ask how many women it takes to make a light bulb. :devil:

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Those Shelby lightbulbs are neat looking, especially the ones with the pancake top. I might have to pick up one of those replicas.

 

[EZO]

I came across an article that provides some interesting new facts about the Shelby Centennial Bulb.

I speculated earlier in this thread about whether this bulb was running on AC or DC. It turns out is has been running on a rectifier since 1976 at which time its output was reduced to 4 watts.

Another curious piece of information is that, "this filament is getting thicker the longer it burns", according to Frank Moul, the city's electrician at the time the bulb was moved to its current location.

Here's a link to the article the information came from.

 

[Steve K]

the filament is getting thicker??

the full text from the article is:
"I had the opportunity to talk to Frank Moul, the city's electrician the last time the bulb was moved to its current location, who is the only person I know of to have seen the bulb unlit. I had to ask him how thick that filament was, and he said at that time it was about the size of baling wire -- so it's grown! What kind of material is this?"

Is it my imagination, or is this reaching an almost mythical/magical/religious status? They say that the last time the bulb was unlit was 1976, so I have a hard time believing that Frank's memory is perfect. For that matter, how big is baling wire, and how big is the filament now? If the last good measure of the bulb was when it was unpowered, how can you compare that to it's present state (i.e. powered)?

oh well.... this might just be the result of a journalist trying to make a great story out of a minor story about a bulb that hasn't burned out yet. Never let the facts (or lack thereof) get in the way of a good story.

Steve K.

 

[EZO]

the filament is getting thicker??

the full text from the article is:
"I had the opportunity to talk to Frank Moul, the city's electrician the last time the bulb was moved to its current location, who is the only person I know of to have seen the bulb unlit. I had to ask him how thick that filament was, and he said at that time it was about the size of baling wire -- so it's grown! What kind of material is this?"

Is it my imagination, or is this reaching an almost mythical/magical/religious status? They say that the last time the bulb was unlit was 1976, so I have a hard time believing that Frank's memory is perfect. For that matter, how big is baling wire, and how big is the filament now? If the last good measure of the bulb was when it was unpowered, how can you compare that to it's present state (i.e. powered)?

oh well.... this might just be the result of a journalist trying to make a great story out of a minor story about a bulb that hasn't burned out yet. Never let the facts (or lack thereof) get in the way of a good story.

Steve K.

According to the wikipedia entry on baling wire, "Its closest industrial (proper name) is Mechanic's Wire (Soft Annealed Mechanic's Wire, 18 AWG)"

You make a good point about the bulb attaining a "mythical/magical/religious status" but that's what these kind of stories are all about. Running this bulb on DC and at a very low power level is really just moving the goal posts but I guess everyone seems to cherish this lovely antique so I guess there's no harm in it. I have some "New Age" friends up the road who ascribe all kinds of remarkable properties to quartz crystals. Anything from keeping foods fresher longer, warding off disease and bad "vibes" to keeping their car from breaking down. (depending on the particular shape and quality of the crystal). I may have to try putting one near a light bulb.

Back in post #30 I quoted from an 1896 newspaper article that claims the filament is almost pure carbon and I don't see how "pure" carbon could get bigger. Perhaps it's a previously unknown state of physics.

 

[Steve K]

I'm trying to recall if I've even seen baling wire (i.e. wire used to tie up bales of hay). My dad farmed when I was a kid, and we used twine instead of wire in the baling machine (on the rectangular bales of the day). I would guess that 18 ga or 20 ga wire might be appropriate.

I can only assume that neither Frank or the author is familiar with baling wire (or do they have very tiny hay bales?), because the amount of current that would be needed to make a 20 ga wire glow would be huge!

not that it really matters.... it's a charming story about an old light bulb that has outlived its peers for some reason. The technical facts are fairly irrelevant. It's almost more of a human interest story.... an interesting inventor, as well as some locals who became oddly devoted to a bit of antiquated technology and were so successful at promoting their near-worship of the bulb that they will be in trouble if it dies on their watch. And now the world can watch on live video something that is nearly guaranteed to not do anything different from what it has done for 100 years. How's that for excitement!

Steve K.

 

[EZO]

You know, you are quite right Steve. The property I live on is literally across the road from a hayfield and for the last 28 years I've never seen anything used around here in VT but twine. Of course, now most farmers are using modern equipment that creates huge cylinders of hay that are wrapped in white plastic and look like enormous marshmallows lying around out in the fields.

Also, in regard to the claim that the filament has grown to the thickness of bailing wire I refer once again to post #30 which stated, "the filament before baking is a chemical plastic substance called cellulose. This machine cuts it into threads 18 inches long and only ½ the size or diameter of an ordinary human hair." And that's BEFORE baking.....Hmmmm.