To SureFire: Design This Flashlight!!!

[wrathothebunny]

I feel, based on others reports and my own understanding of its design, that the SureFire A2 Aviator is the ultimate, all around flashlight for general, non-tactical use. The LEDs provide good low-level illumination and long run-time, and the regulated incan output provides fantastic, white, high color-rendering output.

The problem is, you have to choose between low-level, long run-time with LEDs, or high-level, short (50 min) run-time with incan. Why should these be our only choices?

The SureFire E2E with the extended run-time (2 1/2 hours) MN02 lamp provides a good 25 torch lumens of good incan output. The Fenix P3D provides excellent output and run-time, ranging from 9 to 160 emitter lumens, and 65 to 1.8 hours run-time. I say, let's combine these two into a SureFire A3 aviator.

What this "SureFire A3" would look like:

Regulated output to a 30 Lumen 2 hour High-Pressure Xenon lamp assembly at 3300K color temp - with optional high-output 60 lumen 1 hour lamp available for purchase. 3 Cree XR-E LEDs (same A2 design) with multilevel output - ranging from 2 to 250 emitter lumens. Colored output could be achieved through filters rather than colored LEDs - otherwise those demanding colored output would be better served with the original A2.

If SureFire really wanted to make our dreams come true, they would design such a setup to be compatible with running on 1 17670 or 2 R123s - perhaps through their voltage regulator design. Oh to dream.

In any case, this 30 lumen extended run-time incan, 2 to 250 lumen LED SureFire A3 would make for the perfect all-around, non-tactical flashlight. It would be ideal for outdoor use as well (hiking, camping, etc.).

What do you all think? :naughty:

 

[kakster]

Sounds like an interesting light, but given Surefire's market segment, I can't see where it would fit into their lineup.

The A2 interface is dead easy; push for light, push a little harder for more. Anything more complicated than this would likely be unsuitable for a "tactical" light.

Havin said that, i'd love to see an A3 too. I'd be happy with a 3 cell version of the current light with high and low output lamp options.

 

[wrathothebunny]

You could still keep that same switch design, but rotate the bezel to adjust intensity of the LEDs.

 

[paulr]

Surefires are tactical lights, built for fog-of-war conditions where NO confusion is acceptable and the cost of operation is irrelevant (thus CR123's). Non-tactical lights of this brightness for general purpose use should use rechargeables. Crees are much larger than 5mm leds and so using three of them would require a largish turbohead, plus there would have to be heat sinking on the other side. Overall you're looking a followon to the U2, not the A2.

 

[wrathothebunny]

The A2 "Aviator" is not meant to be a tactical light - at least not in the sense that "tactical" is traditionally used in this forum. It was originally designed for pilots who wanted to preserve their night vision while navigating, but who also wanted the higher, high quality, output of the xenon lamp, thus the "Aviator" bit. The red LEDs were particularly effective in this regard. In any case, since its introduction, the A2 has found a home with many non-pilot owners as a more general purpose or outdoors light. Besides, look at SureFire's own description of this light, "Compact (pocket sized), dual-output hybrid flashlight for aviation, camping, self-defense, and general use." Concerning the "self-defense" bit, 250 lumens of max LED light would actually enhance an A3 in this regard. Honestly, if you are using an A2 Aviator for room clearing, you are doing something wrong my friend - SureFire has other torches, such as their "M" line for that.

In any case, the idea that ALL SureFire flashlights are intended for tactical applications should have gone out the window when they introduced their $500 Titan. Yeah, that's one tactical light alright. For that matter, look at their "Executive" series. Now, I can imagine military applications for these lights, but, come-on, they're named "Executive" and are marketed on how they are so compact they can fit in a shirt pocket. What about the E1L "Outdoorsman." Now, maybe I'm crazy, but I believe that light is targeted for general "outdoor" use - what with its 25 lumen 4 hour output and all.

Concerning a U2 update - no. The truly unique feature of the A2 is its regulated Xenon output. No other SureFire has this. Also, there ain't no xenon in the U2 but there sure are LEDs in the A2. So, this would be an Aviator update.

About the size of the A3 - the Crees are 6.8mm for the lens and reflector unit, so 3 of them might be crowded in there, but I think it could be done. Even if the reflector and lens needed slight enlarging, there is no way an increase of 1.8mm diameter per LED would require an entire TurboHead. If space really was an issue, SureFire could manufacture their reflector such that, instead of just holes for the LEDS, the reflector sharply dimpled down for each LED with the hole at the bottom, barely fitting each LED lens - such that each LED had something of their own mini reflector. Concerning heat-sinking, you could downward adjust my 250 lumen spec to fit whatever would be practical in such a setup if each LED putting out 83 Lumens generates too much heat. I think SureFire could come up with an innovative design solution to accommodate these issues though.

In any case, there isn't anything complicated about a 2-stage tailcap switch and a bezel that rotates. The bezel position would in no way affect the Xenon lamp, only the LED brightness in any case. So this one addition of a rotating bezel to the existing A2 Aviator's controls would make it too complicated? No, I think that this torch would be welcomed as an efficient, useful, and intuitive device.

 

[carrot]

Sounds interesting, but I wouldn't buy it. The reason I'm not a big fan of the U2 is the same reason I wouldn't buy this proposed A3: It really is a pain in the butt to rotate a bezel ring to change output levels... and the head is too bulky.

I just want to see a regulated E2e/E2o. 40 lumens and at least 1.5 hours would make me happy.

 

[Illum]

if this is possible, it will cut in to Surefires U2 and Kroma designs...and rather than investing into a flashlight body thats compatible with other battery types, I think Surefire would stick with their B90/cr123A setups

Regulated output to a 30 Lumen 2 hour High-Pressure Xenon lamp assembly at 3300K color temp

this sounds like a good idea especially if its driven by a single cell like the E1E:naughty:

 

[wrathothebunny]

I doubt it would cut into the U2 and Kroma sales. It wouldn't have the secondary Red and Blue LED lights that the Kroma has - which is why you buy the Kroma in the first place. Concerning the U2 and anything else in SureFire's line - the A3 would need to be priced into a higher bracket. Designing and manufacturing such a light can't be cheap, so I imagine SureFire would market the A3 at those who demand the Ultimate - like they do with their M6, their Titan, and the 10X Dominator.

 

[adamr999]

I don't know where all the electronics you suggest for the A3 would fit into into the compact body of the A2. I can think of four drastic differences which would have to be addressed:
1. A2 led's are direct drive.
2. Output selection circuitry.
3. Incandescent regulation in A2 is only designed for one lamp not two.
4. Heatsink.
All of these changes would lead to a bezel more similar in size to a U2 than an A2.

I admit the light would be pretty cool, but I don't know what it's purpose would be.

 

[wrathothebunny]

I believe these issues could be addressed through clever engineering on SureFire's part. Should such a feat prove impossible, there are other technologies that could be employed to achieve a similar effect - such as the new Rebel LEDs that truly are minuscule.

 

[souptree]

Just in case any of the SureFire developers are reading this thread -- PLEASE MAKE A REGULATED INCANDESCENT TURBOHEAD LIGHT! You can even put LEDs in it if you want.

Thank you. :wave:

 

[McGizmo]

Just in case any of the SureFire developers are reading this thread -- PLEASE MAKE A REGULATED INCANDESCENT TURBOHEAD LIGHT! You can even put LEDs in it if you want.

Thank you. :wave:

They did, in prototype. Didn't make the roster though. :shrug:

 

[mdocod]

making a 30 lumen lamp over 3300K regulated is going to be tough, when dealing with low power lamps, pushing good color temps while maintaining bulb longevity is going to be difficult. It's actually easier to build reliable bulbs when you step up the power a bit (thicker filament) because there is more shock resistance and more room for error.

I'd much rather see a light like the 10X, but with the low output being a 150 lumen cree rather than a 60 lumen incan.

 

[wrathothebunny]

Well, LumensFactory makes the HO-E1R, which maintains a Color Temp of 3250 at only 50 bulb lumens - though it does only last 15 hours.

 

[mdocod]

there's a pretty noticable difference between a lamp driven to 3250K, and 3325K. 3250K on a higher powered lamp (like over 10W) could have a life of more like 30-60 hours.

 

[wrathothebunny]

Still, with a voltage regulator, it could be conceivable to actually bootstrap the voltage upward above input voltage and decrease the amps. You could actually run a 9V xenon on 2 primaries if you designed the voltage regulator right. Thus thicker filaments and what not.

 

[mdocod]

actually a 9V low amperage lamp would have an even thinner, longer filament.

 

[wrathothebunny]

Then lower voltage, higher amp output from the regulator then would equal shorter, thicker filament? Perhaps a 2.5V bulb running at 1.15A would be preferable in that case.

 

[mdocod]

for the sake of longevity, that would probably be better, but I'm pretty sure there would be a loss of efficiency...(less surface area)... obviously there is a delicate balance,

Basically, the conclusion I'm trying to get at, is this:
It would be impossible to achieve the same color temperature, bulb life, and overall efficiency of the current A2 in a lower output lamp. You'd have to choose some of the attributes that make it great, and leave some behind. I don't think there is any getting around that.

 

[BBL]

And who would buy such a flashlight, that would likely cost $300-400, except flashoholics?