Upgrading to IMR bulbs and 18500 - does it fit unbored D3 and M3?

[KevinL]

Hi guys, needed to ask.... the new IMR 18500 cells - do they fit in the D3 Defender body (basically older C3, or think 9P with side clip) or the M3 body without any extra boring?

Was thinking I might want to use some of these in conjunction with the LumensFactory IMR lamps. My poor D3/SRTH/MN16 and M3 classic are sooooooo outgunned by the new LED TK40

Your opinion of IMR lamps, plus other suggestions for upgrades are most welcome

I might also be keen on trying the new IMR lamp for my E2e's. Those little lights sure don't put out enough light. 350 bulb lumens would be fierce

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Hi guys, needed to ask.... the new IMR 18500 cells - do they fit in the D3 Defender body (basically older C3, or think 9P with side clip) or the M3 body without any extra boring?

Was thinking I might want to use some of these in conjunction with the LumensFactory IMR lamps. My poor D3/SRTH/MN16 and M3 classic are sooooooo outgunned by the new LED TK40

Your opinion of IMR lamps, plus other suggestions for upgrades are most welcome

I might also be keen on trying the new IMR lamp for my E2e's. Those little lights sure don't put out enough light. 350 bulb lumens would be fierce

Dunno about the old D3, but a 18500 will not fit into a stock 9P, C3 or M3 body tube. You'll need a Leef body for that...

You can use an extensor though. A SureFire A19 would allow you to use 2x17670 batteries to have even better capacity than 18500s.

By the way, those IMR Lamps are all outstanding. Get the IMR-M3T for your SF Turbohead and prepare to be amazed...

Cheers!

 

[KevinL]

Thanks for the tip! I just need to find the 17670's on Lighthound's site and pick up the IMR bulb. Have the A19 extender here.

I will probably put it in the M3 (non-T). The A19 kinda looks ugly on my black SRTH setup, which I bought as much for looks as for functionality. The SRTH is after all, an exotic.

 

[DM51]

Please note the caution given on the LF website. Using ordinary LiCo cells with IMR-series bulbs is not recommended.

 

[KevinL]

Please note the caution given on the LF website. Using ordinary LiCo cells with IMR-series bulbs is not recommended.

Thanks DM and no worries. I assume all the discussion in this thread relates to the IMR version of the cells, ie. 17670 IMR.

The safety issues are high on my list - first thing I realized was that the IMR bulbs would likely dangerously overload LiCo cells. I was the one who designed the ROP to run right at the very edge of the safe envelope using the highest grade of LG 18650's I could get my hands on, the safe envelope being somewhere below 2.5C (and better when closer to 2C).

Exceeding the safe envelope could well, cause, ahem.....catastrophic failure.

 

[DM51]

17670 IMR

IMR 17670s don't yet exist, AFAIK. Currently available IMR cell sizes are here.

These are LF's specs for their IMR-series LAs:
1. IMR-M6 - 10.8V, 3A, 25 hours life, 3350K
2. IMR-M3T - 7V, 3.4A, 25 hours life, 3350K
3. IMR-M3 - 7V, 2.4A, 25 hours life, 3325K
4. IMR-9 - 7V, 2.4A, 25 hours life, 3325K
5. IMR-E2 - 7.2V, 2A, 20 hours life, 3325K

 

[KevinL]

IMR 17670s don't yet exist, AFAIK. Currently available IMR cell sizes are here.

These are LF's specs for their IMR-series LAs:
1. IMR-M6 - 10.8V, 3A, 25 hours life, 3350K
2. IMR-M3T - 7V, 3.4A, 25 hours life, 3350K
3. IMR-M3 - 7V, 2.4A, 25 hours life, 3325K
4. IMR-9 - 7V, 2.4A, 25 hours life, 3325K
5. IMR-E2 - 7.2V, 2A, 20 hours life, 3325K

No wonder I couldn't find any! I thought they were out of stock or something. Thanks for saving me an extended search

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

I guess you're going to need a Leef body then...

 

[KevinL]

And even then I'd only get the IMR-M3T lamp, which is ~700lu.

Which IMHO still not that impressive, considering I have a ROP LE here (also about same power output), and a TK40 - also about same. Call me spoiled but four years of the ROP has set certain expectations

Hmm, perhaps I'll pass.... it was nice to ponder though.

What REALLY lights a fire though, is the IMR E2e bulb. Now that is gonna be awesome, 350 bulb lumens has never been achievable before on that platform.

 

[ElectronGuru]

the new IMR 18500 cells - do they fit in the D3 Defender body (basically older C3, or think 9P with side clip) or the M3 body without any extra boring?

The D3 has the same neck area formed to hold the clip (special model you got there):

The C3 matches this and adds square body shaping plus a grip ring:

And even then I'd only get the IMR-M3T lamp, which is ~700lu.

Which IMHO still not that impressive, considering I have a ROP LE here (also about same power output), and a TK40 - also about same. Call me spoiled but four years of the ROP has set certain expectations

Hmm, perhaps I'll pass.... it was nice to ponder though.

My favorite configuration with this size is a Surefire31 (see post 2), a WA 1331 matched to three IMR16340's. Damn near 900 lumens.

 

[mdocod]

You can run the IMR-M3 and IMR-9, safely on a pair of protected LiCo 17670s. it would be about a 1.7C discharge.

The IMR-M3 is one very interesting bulb... Double the lux of an IMR-9 at the center of the beam, but the beam width is still VERY floody. It's confusing, it's a flood beam that throws 75-100+ useful yards. As a general use bulb it's pretty hard to beat IMO, great wide beam when you are up close to your target, but reaching out and touching things isn't a problem.

 

[Paul5M]

You can run the IMR-M3 and IMR-9, safely on a pair of protected LiCo 17670s. it would be about a 1.7C discharge.

+1 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[KevinL]

Hmm, A19 here I come?

 

[Monocrom]

I guess you're going to need a Leef body then...

FiveMega body should work as well. Bit easier to get one of those. I believe Nite's FM bodies sales thread is still active on the MarketPlace.

 

[KevinL]

Too late........someone lured me away with a modified U2.....hosting an MC-E emitter!

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

FiveMega body should work as well. Bit easier to get one of those. I believe Nite's FM bodies sales thread is still active on the MarketPlace.

That's true! I managed to score the last remaining Leef 2x18650 HA-Natural from Lighthound.

 

[Deputy T.]

I just got my IMR E2 bulb with IMR-16340, and all I can say is WOW! I expected it to brighter, but I was still very stunned. I'm convinced this is my whitest beam in my collection. Is seem to have an identical brightness to my EO-9 and my ROP low but with a larger spot. With the small reflector it's mostly flood and it works extremely well indoors for room clearing.

I took it to work last night and my coworkers couldn't believe the amount of light coming out of such a little light (and I show off every one of my new lights to them).

Now I need to find a replacement the E2e. It was the light from my wife's purse, and after she read the warning card that came with the bulb she does want to be anywhere near the light.

When the IMRs were first released, I got myself a couple of 18650s thinking I would be able run a the high bulb in my Mag 2C ROP. One instant flash later I haven't tried them since. Now I'm saving up to buy a fivemega body, a KT1-BK, and a IMR-M3T bulb.

As I'm typing this it makes me wonder...does any one know if the IMR-16340s would work well with the ROP high? I've go a 1C that it would work perfectly in.

 

[KevinL]

Congrats and glad you like the ROP

The ROP-high was designed as a 6.0 volt system. The reason why it works with NiMH cells, and conventional Li-ion (Lithin Cobalt or LiCo for short) is that NiMH and LiCo have voltage sag. A 7.2V NiMH pack will put out a little less voltage when the bulb stresses it, as will a 8.4V LiCo (really you get somewhere around 6.5-7V out of it). We intended to overdrive it a little bit for better performance.

The new IMR (LiMN) packs are designed to hold their voltage extremely well under high loads, so they do not have this sag effect. 8.4V is a bit too much for the ROP-high bulb and you will pop them. My high-rate NiMH pack rated for 30 amps had very little sag, and despite being a 7.2V stick would flash many a ROP bulb when hot off the charger. Too much overdrive, in a nutshell.

However, there are indications from destructive testing published here on CPF that the ROP-Low may run very well on IMR because of its extreme voltage range tolerance. I've seen they managed to get it up to 9.6V before it blew! The plus side is that despite being the "low" bulb, when heavily overdriven it produces a lot more light so you may find that a useable combo as well.

If you do try the 18650 IMR's with the low bulb, let us know how they work out.

 

[ElectronGuru]

When the IMRs were first released, I got myself a couple of 18650s thinking I would be able run a the high bulb in my Mag 2C ROP. One instant flash later I haven't tried them since.

There's actually a cool fix - the trick is choosing the right bulb. Normal ROPs, 3854's are rated at 6.0 volts. There's a less usual ROP (3853), rated to 7.2 volts. Applying Kevin's same overdrive differential but adding 1.2v, they handle the 8.4 volts put out by freshly/fully charged IMRs just fine. The 3853-H, for example, delivers outstanding output from a pair of IMR26500's. It will handle a smaller pair of IMR18650's without issue.