warning to all dell computer owners

[star882]

The power supply is nonstandard(WTX with ATX plugs).
Use an ATX power supply with a dell computer, you will get lots of smoke, and leave you to flush the destroyed parts down the toilet.

I heard about this in some USENET thread about a guy who upgrades the power supply in his dell and it now blows the fuses.
Good thing I read about this before I decided to upgrade.

 

[James Van Artsdalen]

Well, yes - if you stick a wrong power supply in the box and run 12v into a 3.3v line something will go really wrong.

More to the point, why on earth replace the power supply? Dell tests and specs those power supplies pretty carefully - I'm at a loss to figure out why it need upgrading.

I think the Dimension product line used to use ATX but has now standardized around the OptiPlex components. The server group does their own thing since they have very specialized requirements.

 

[Tree]

The power supply went out on my Dell XPSR350 after about a year and a half of owning it. Luckily it was still under warranty and they sent me a new one.

I don't understand the need to upgrade, unless you need more power output connections (like I do).

 

[TOB9595]

I have many reasons to upgrade the power supply. In my tower I have three Hard drivesand other miscellaneous. I'd like to add more fans and play with other things too.
What power supplies fit the dells? Other than Dell. I have a dimension xpsT450 that I'm frequently changing components in. I was aware of the proprietary nature of this. Any replacements that are nondell?

 

[James Van Artsdalen]

I worked in the OptiPlex engineering/design group for a dozen years and we never once got a request to use a particular power supply or worried about the possibility, however remote, that an end-user might upgrade the power supply. The customers never asked for it that I can recall.

It’s not a proprietary design. That doesn’t mean anyone else uses it. The issues in choosing a supply in the design phase are primarily form-factor, output specs, reliability, cost and availability.

All of the systems mentioned in this thread are Dimension, and those were in their own world until recently. I have no idea what they did.

OptiPlex power supplies usually had their pinout and basic specs printed on a label of the supply itself. See if Dimension does too. Otherwise, see if there’s a model number and see if the power supply manufacturer publishes specs.

You can buy power Y cables at Wal-Mart to add more hard disk power connectors, etc. I assume there are electronic “junkyards” that sell power supplies scavenged from the corpses of old systems if you don’t want to pay Dell prices.

 

[Floating Spots]

When my old Dell was out of use, I gutted it, thinking I could at least use the case. Power supply wasn't standard pin out (or size). Also, the front panel switches and leds used a specialty connector.
So I put it all together and gave it away.

I can't say much about Gateway either.
The 700 series I've been getting for work don't even have a standard ATX motherboard. They have this two part deal, where there is a mini-daughter board for the AGP and PCI slots. One of the wierdest I've seen.

 

[James Van Artsdalen]

I don't know which model you have so I can't speak to it. The LED/power switch is often a bizarre connector because of the constant tussle between the cheapest parts and something can be cheaply and reliably assembled.

I do remember looking at the ATX when Intel first pitched it years ago but it was inferior to what we already had (in terms of space utilization and allowing for peripheral device space like hard drives and 5 1/4" bays). We tended to design the motherboard to fit the chassis layout rather than the other way around (as ATX did) because the lead time to chassis changes is long.

Dell used to use a daughterboard for PCI cards in their low-profile chassis. It worked and sold very well. It's actually a good way to get two or three PCI slots if you have to be very short but can be wide and deep. I'm not surprised Gateway did it and assume any company that did their own engineering did something similar.

PS. If you asked the OptiPlex guys they'd probably say that they do use the industry standard PC power supply - more OptiPlex power supplies are sold than any other.

 

[Rothrandir]

another thing about dell is their customer service...

everyone says it is great, and shortly after purchasing my dell, i agreed. however, there were many problems with the system, crashing, errors, locking up, incompatability...everything.

i called the people, they send a new mother board, now mb didn't work, so we got a new hd, new hd didn't really work, but we sort of ironed it out.

anyway...by this point we have reformated 5 or 6 times due to the exact same errors, and the real problem is that when we try to install windows...we can't. errors and errors and errors, we just popped in the third motherboard (which didn't solve the problem) and a new hd should be here tommorrow. i don't really thing it will work.

after having the same problem at least 5 times, they should just send us a new system...

the really bad thing is our warrenty goes bye-bye on the 4th of jan, i think they are stalling...

the worst thing is i have to access cpf on a 386 14.4 modem...luckily i am staying with my uncle for the rest of the year (he has cable

) but i'm afraid i still won't be able to get on much

dell customer servervice is okay...but after the third or so of the same problem, they need to just get the problem fixed, by whatever means possible...i will not be purchasing another dell!

 

[James Van Artsdalen]

Originally posted by Rothrandir:
however, there were many problems with the system, crashing, errors, locking up, incompatability...everything.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me guess - you were running Windows...

 

[Rothrandir]

and the prize goes to.........james!

trust me, i would like linux, but it is my dad's (and families) system, so i am kind of limited in what i can do to it.

it isn't a software problem though, the computer wont even boot up now...

as soon as i can, i'm going to build a quad processor p4 xeon overdriven and housed in a custom chrome case, freon and water cooled, lit by arc aaa's and fiberoptic lighting. of course it would have at least 4gigs or rd-ram, a wildcat3 6210 gpu and an ibm t220 monitor. and of course...it will be scsi!

 

[James Van Artsdalen]

OEMs are contractually obligated by Microsoft not to admit when problems are caused by Windows. After you had the problem a few times they probably concluded it was Windows, but they aren't allowed to tell you that.

All systems get 30 to 250 minutes of burn-in testing minimum and that includes a lot of disk I/O. DOA systems are almost always a cable or DIMM that comes loose in shipping. Once those are taken care of it's almost invariably the case that the user added a camera or printer or such, installed a driver, and that was all she wrote... incredibly frustrating for the OEMs.

Can't say about your case. If Windows fails early enough in the boot process it can be hard to differentiate from a failure in POST. Microsoft banned (another contract thing) the boot beep a few years back so that customers couldn't tell pre-boot from Windows issues.

 

[snakebite]

when your system gets built by beancounters expect trouble.
btw anyone that thinks dell service is good should try to get drivers or a restore disk for the dell webpc.
the drivers availible for download do not work.
what a POS

 

[Floating Spots]

Originally posted by James Van Artsdalen:

I do remember looking at the ATX when Intel first pitched it years ago but it was inferior to what we already had (in terms of space utilization and allowing for peripheral device space like hard drives and 5 1/4" bays). We tended to design the motherboard to fit the chassis layout rather than the other way around (as ATX did) because the lead time to chassis changes is long.

Dell used to use a daughterboard for PCI cards in their low-profile chassis. It worked and sold very well. It's actually a good way to get two or three PCI slots if you have to be very short but can be wide and deep.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe it was a hold over, but these were purchased within a year and were in mid-sized cases. Actually, they are mid-size + in my opinion.
There is a huge amount of free space in there.
The daughterboard is bolted down within an inch or two of the mainboard too. (So basically, they have a two part ATX baord laid out in an ATX footprint, using the ATX mounting holes).

I wish I had a camera to take a picture of it.
Like I said, its probably the weirdest computer I've seen.

 

[binky]

JvA - Terrifying stuff about MS. Not surprising, just terrifying about the contracts &c.
Every time I have to go back to that damned OS (fully-WinUpdated Win2K) I just end up rebooting a zillion times and swearing at it.
Now that HP & RedHat8 finally print so well together there's little reason to return to that MS nightmare.

To the rest, Dell comes out and tells you at least some of the hardware risk factors on their homepage.
Dimension = latest, cutting-edge (read: some may be non-standard)
Optiplex = stable, manageable, serviceable.
etc. etc.

DON"T FLAME ME ... I don't want to sound like a wanker as though I'm saying you shoulda known, but the stated differences are certainly something to consider when thinking about the parts.

I can praise Dell for their Precision workstation design. With the 530 at least, it every time I open it up (rare now that loading it up has settled) I think "Damn this is beautifully designed here, and here, and lookit that..."
It's not perfect electronically, (some problems with s-l-o-w pci bridge for example) but electro-mechanically it's well-nigh faultless. Quantum leaps better than the supposed "home" models.

Rothrandir - Have you considered Peltier cooling instead of more noisy freon? Both need same failsafe hardware shutdown anyway. Just a thought. I like the lighting idea too.