Weaponlight: M60L vs M60WL

[upriver]

I've read all I could find regarding these two drop-ins, but I still can't make up my mind.

I have a surefire G2, so I'm sticking to the low output models. I'd like to mount this to a rifle.

I recently bought a fenix TK20, and I must say I prefer the neutral/warm tint.

However, as you all know, the WL (100 lumens) loses 40 lumens to the L (140 lumens).

I've heard that the tint more than makes up for the loss in lumens outdoors, but I've also read that a cooler tint may be preferable in urban areas (lights up concrete, etc. better?). I live in the suburbs.

So it basically boils down to this: I'd prefer the warmer tint, but I'm not sure it's worth the drop in lumens. On the other hand, from what little I know of apparent brightness (4X lumens appears 2x as bright??), the loss in lumens may be barely perceptible, while the tint difference should be easy to discern.

Also...what does everyone think of the M60L tint? If the regular M60L tint is very white (little/no blue), I'll probably just stick with that.

Thanks!

 

[Sgt. LED]

Get the WL over the L.
The lumen drop is pretty slight and very worth it.

 

[txgp17]

The WL will serve you better.

The intensity of the M60 will ruin your nightvision. A combat light needs to be limited in it's intensity, as most application only involve a brief use.

Fighting in Low Light: The essentials

 

[prof student]

So, is it safe to say that in all the comparisons, it would be better to go with the W Malkoffs?

M60 vs. M60W
M60L vs. M60 WL

Is the loss of lumens really not noticeable?

What about when it comes to throw?

I have read on here from some LE people, that they love how the M60 really "reaches" out & even penetrates some of the severely tinted car windows. Will the M60W reduce that ability in the car, or will it make it easier because of its "warm/neutral" color rendition?

Thanks.

 

[upriver]

Thanks guys.

Anybody else? Anybody have both of these dropins?

 

[Patriot]

I saw the AR15.com link above and read through it entirely. It's ok for general purposes but is rather generic and unspecific as well. It's simply the author's notion that any light over 60-80 lumens is too bright while used indoors, but fails to recognize that even within that range a light can be "too bright" given improper tactics. Meanwhile the author has a 225 lumen light on his carbine. This just goes to show you that lumens are mission specific and 60 lumens can be too bright at 3 feet whereas are across a large interior space or room it could be considered insufficient. The point is that you can be temporarilly blinded by your own light in any multitude of combinations even within his ideal 60-80 lumens. Tactical light and weaponlights manufacturers have been far exceeded the 60-80 lumen doctrine now for years and the fact that additional lumens help as been well recognized by Operators in Iraq and Afghanistan. In short I don't think it's possible to have too many lumens and often, the more you have available the better. Ken J. Good of Strategos International tells what it's like for the OPFOR to defend against overpowering light such as the kind from a 4000 lumen HID light. Ken states that after a while the defenders don't even want to "play" anymore because they loose every time.

With that said, when it comes to the color temperature of the light you're going to choose, I wouldn't let output lumens dictate your choice. Rather, since either the WL or L models are at least sufficient in a wide range of applications and scenarios, I would choose the color that your own brain prefers. Based on your current knowledge and experience go with what your gut is telling you will work best for your eyes and go from there. If you own the WL for a while and you decide that you like the cooler color better, sell it in the Marketplace and repurchase the other drop-in if you need to. I would wager that won't have to do this but if you do, it's not big deal.

 

[upriver]

Another question:

Does the tint produced by a warm/neutral emitter actually contain more light at the "good"(warm) frequencies, or does it achieve that tint simply by absorbing some of the blue spectrum? I read somewhere, don't remember where, that warm tints just have more phosphor coating on them.

I can't see a benefit to warm emitters if that was the case, because the cooler tints would be putting out just as much light in the warm range of the spectrum. It would be like those blue-coated incan lightbulbs that appear cooler in tint by removing some light in the red/yellow spectrum, except in the opposite sense.

Oh and Patriot, as you said, I'll probably make up my mind someday and just buy one or the other, as I don't see much of a problem re-selling it on marketplace if I don't like it.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Does the tint produced by a warm/neutral emitter actually contain more light at the "good"(warm) frequencies, or does it achieve that tint simply by absorbing some of the blue spectrum? I read somewhere, don't remember where, that warm tints just have more phosphor coating on them.

I can't see a benefit to warm emitters if that was the case, because the cooler tints would be putting out just as much light in the warm range of the spectrum. It would be like those blue-coated incan lightbulbs that appear cooler in tint by removing some light in the red/yellow spectrum, except in the opposite sense.

Phosphors are a bit more complex than filters. Filters work by restricting certain wavelengths, allowing specific ones through. Phosphors absorb some kinds of light energy and release it as other kinds of energy. In this case, absorbing blue and releasing what amounts to anti-blue (yellow). The result is not a wider range of frequencies, but rather a movement of the predominant frequency. This conversion is not completely efficient, so lumens are lost along the way, mimicking the effect of filters.

Color rendering effectiveness is gained, not from being able to show more of a given colors nature (still need incans for that), but by having less distortion, the extra blue tint provides. In practice, an LED with so much phosphor that its actually yellow can be just as distorted (tinted), just in the other direction of the cool/warm spectrum. The M60WL's emitter is better at color rendering that either really blue or really yellow emitters because its closer to white (no tint).

 

[JNewell]

It really is noticeable. For this application, you want the full-strength M60. You do not need the W[arm] variant in this application.

So, is it safe to say that in all the comparisons, it would be better to go with the W Malkoffs?

M60 vs. M60W
M60L vs. M60 WL

Is the loss of lumens really not noticeable?

What about when it comes to throw?

I have read on here from some LE people, that they love how the M60 really "reaches" out & even penetrates some of the severely tinted car windows. Will the M60W reduce that ability in the car, or will it make it easier because of its "warm/neutral" color rendition?

Thanks.

 

[upriver]

It really is noticeable. For this application, you want the full-strength M60. You do not need the W[arm] variant in this application.

Understandable, but since I have a Surefire G2, I won't be going with a full-strength M60, so your recommendation in my case would be the M60L...Ok thanks.

 

[JNewell]

Understandable, but since I have a Surefire G2, I won't be going with a full-strength M60, so your recommendation in my case would be the M60L...Ok thanks.

Gene Malkoff has posted here that the M60 runs fine in a G2. IIRC, it runs fine in the Nitrolon head but will throttle back after a period of a few minutes due to heat, but will not be damaged. In an aluminum-bezel G2 or a stock G2L host it will run at full throttle just fine.

If you are thinking about running the light attached to a weapon, you would be unlikely to run into trouble either way and the extra light from the M60 could be useful.

 

[stuart]

I just did a brief test. The M60L and the M60WL outdoors at an object/tree line about 60 yards away. Can't tell a great deal of difference in overall output though the 60L does appear a bit brighter. The main difference is tint. When I first got the L it appeared very white compared to the standard p60led, however, compared to the WL, the L looks greenish. The WL could pass as an incan. The warm version seems to pick up movement and bring things to life better than the L while in the woods and around the house. If an animal (or human) was in the woods and not moving I would say that the warm version would give you a much better chance of seeing him due to the color rendition. I actually had this happen with a rabbit a few weeks ago. Went into the woods to check out a few new Malkoffs and a few other lights. Turned on each light for a few seconds. I missed the rabbit with the first two and then realized that he was sitting about 10 yards away with the WFL. Maybe not the best example but for whatever reason I didn't see him until I turned on the WFL. The other lights were the e2d led with diffuser, and the old L4. The tint on my old L4 is about the same as the M60L. I know you didn't ask about it but just for reference, when outdoors, at great distances, my E2d led seems to put out more light then the M60W, however I can see farther and make out objects better with the M60W.