What could possibly go wrong?

TPA

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
401
Location
Florida
I see many advocating for UBI, but no one advocates for UBJ, there are plenty of things to do for people with no skill, picking garbage on the side of highways, every city got tons of trash on streets.. i'm sure there are lots of things that can be found. UBI is like bail reform, one promotes laziness, other criminal behaviour. both come from the same mindnset,
If anyone wants to see the outcome of UBI, go to Alaska. It's not pretty. While it may be part of the USA legally, it truly is its own country and culture when you're there. The Natives (as they call themselves) dominate and rule, and I respect that. I worked up there for a time and actually fell in love with the place. BUT, one of their BIG problems is homelessness...but it's not like we're used to in the Lower 48. Hang around Anchorage for any bit of time and you'll find plenty of bums passed out in the park, on sidewalks, etc. BUT, take a closer look and you'll notice some differences. Almost all of them are Natives...and they're not homeless. They have a home, up in the villages. They're also not poor.

When Alaska was becoming part of the USA, the Natives quickly saw what happened to the Indians and didn't want the same fate. So they set up "Native Corporations" which basically run everything in the state. Including mineral rights. Indeed, every Alaskan citizen gets a check from the State called the Permanent Fund. In recent years this is anywhere from $1600-3500. BUT Natives also get payments from their respective Native Corporation, often very substantial, to the point that some people don't work... Seeing the problems in the Lower 48 with alcohol and drugs, many small Alaskan villages are dry. So, these Natives head to Anchorage at the beginning of the month, booze, dope, and drug up, and pass out all over the place.

A person without purpose seems to find trouble quickly. You'll see the same behavior in kids of Nouveau riche parents. They didn't have to put in hard work to get their money, so they act in similar ways.

Some situations in some of the cases, a car can make such judgments. But, to my way of thinking, the scores of situations that have been in the news the past ~5yrs or so show that "the tech" (tuning, whatever) still has a way to go before it'll be capable of handing ALL of the lunacies we see around us on a weekly (even daily) basis. Mindless pedestrians, drivers, wildlife are simply unpredictable when they're allowed to mix with other moving vehicles that can themselves be unpredictable. And you can't honestly have an autonomous vehicle in mixed-mode, mixed-occupant, mix-conditions scenarios until all of those things are solved.

I'm all for the changes. When ready, though. On some roads. For some features. NOT for this fully-autonomous concept some are floating, and (sadly) some towns/cities are allowing. It's still in beta test, in a general sense. Though narrow-scope, specific tech capabilities have their place and can absolutely help, this "fully-autonomous" thing isn't yet read.
I don't think we'll get to full driverless autonomous, nor do I think we should, actually.

A similar argument is currently being debated in airline executive boardrooms, with the airlines wanting to remove pilots from the cockpit. After all, the latest airliners can autoland in conditions no human would be able to. They'll even claim that the planes can be flown by remote control by a pilot on the ground if something happens. No thanks. Boeing showed us that even with two pilots up front, the computers can crash the plane. Then there's the issue of bad people wanting to crash the plane. And ALL of these systems assume that the systems can't fail or that a failure will be detected. Not possible. See also Boeing's MCAS.

The only place full autonomous, driverless vehicles have a chance of working are in the ways they are today -- people mover and similar protected rail systems. Perhaps some alternate form of a limited-access highway, but even then you still have wildlife, construction vehicles dropping crap all over the roads, etc.


One serious question for you all though. When / if your autonomous car kills someone, where will the legal responsibility lie? TPA made it very clear that some tech is better than others. Does it lie with the city that allowed the experiment or does it lie with the company that sells the tech?
The owner. Unless it's a corporation; we all know that corporations can't be charged criminally. You could probably sue the city and company, and with the right jury, win big... but it won't bring your loved one back.
 

Kestrel

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
7,372
Location
Willamette Valley, OR
[...] When Alaska was becoming part of the USA, the Natives quickly saw what happened to the Indians and didn't want the same fate. So they set up "Native Corporations" which basically run everything in the state. Including mineral rights. Indeed, every Alaskan citizen gets a check from the State called the Permanent Fund. In recent years this is anywhere from $1600-3500. BUT Natives also get payments from their respective Native Corporation, often very substantial, to the point that some people don't work... Seeing the problems in the Lower 48 with alcohol and drugs, many small Alaskan villages are dry. So, these Natives head to Anchorage at the beginning of the month, booze, dope, and drug up, and pass out all over the place. [...]
Spoken like a true Alaska expert; :rolleyes:
AK became a territory in 1912, and a state in 1959.
The native corporations were created from the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971, and were set up in '71-'72.

Having grown up in a native village above the Arctic Circle with a father who was a Doyon shareholder, it is obvious to me that you're not letting the facts get in the way of a good story.
 

TPA

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
401
Location
Florida
@Kestrel I'm going by what I was told while working in Alaska by the Natives there. Please do correct me where I'm incorrect. But the observations of the homeless remains: The majority of the ones I saw were indeed Natives. sadly.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
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Pacific N.W.
@Kestrel I'm going by what I was told while working in Alaska by the Natives there. Please do correct me where I'm incorrect. But the observations of the homeless remains: The majority of the ones I saw were indeed Natives. sadly.
If I were you, TPA, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply. I also don't see where he refuted any of the points you made. Just because it took a great deal of time for the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act to come to fruition doesn't detract from your "good story".

Furthermore, his personal experience does not make him any more of an expert than yours makes you. ;)
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,435
Location
New Mexico, USA
I'm sticking with Kestrel on this. Seems like there is more to the story but possibly not within the scope of CPF.

I have seen copies of official documents regarding the history of Kestrel's family; very interesting and humbling how some can survive and thrive for years in such remote circumstances.
 
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